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Old 11-25-2007, 07:42 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default BB 8830 and VZ Navigator is unreal!

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Just updated my BB 8830 with the VZ navagator. Called Verizon to activate and I was up and running in minutes. I have to admit I am totally shocked on how good this is! I have a Nuvi 660 that cost me over 600 dollars and this is just as good. Voice activated turns with street names. Accurate to within 50 feet. Redraw is amazing and never lags. Has all the same features as the Nuvi like looking up restaurants, gas stations etc.

All and all I have to say that if you have a BB 8830 and do alot of traveling like I do this is a must get.

Charlie C
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Old 11-25-2007, 08:15 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Have you ever seen Telenav? It makes VZVav look like a toy.
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Old 11-25-2007, 08:47 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Default Telnav

Yes I have seen Telnav. Don't you have to hook up an external puck to pick up the satellites? VZ uses the wireless technology and picks up the gps satellites even in your home.

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Old 11-25-2007, 08:58 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chascent View Post
Don't you have to hook up an external puck to pick up the satellites?
To use Telenav and other GPS applications on the Verizon 8830 (and 8130) you would need an external puck because Verizon choose to cripple the internal GPS in both of those devices and lock the usage exclusively to VZnavigator.

For all other devices with built-in GPS, you wouldn't need an external puck for Telenav.

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Originally Posted by chascent View Post
VZ uses the wireless technology and picks up the gps satellites even in your home.
Verizon isn't doing anything revolutionary or different here with 8830. It's exactly the same as any other autonomous GPS receiver. It's neither better nor worse than using a puck.
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Old 11-25-2007, 10:36 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chascent View Post
Just updated my BB 8830 with the VZ navagator. Called Verizon to activate and I was up and running in minutes. I have to admit I am totally shocked on how good this is! I have a Nuvi 660 that cost me over 600 dollars and this is just as good. Voice activated turns with street names. Accurate to within 50 feet. Redraw is amazing and never lags. Has all the same features as the Nuvi like looking up restaurants, gas stations etc.

All and all I have to say that if you have a BB 8830 and do alot of traveling like I do this is a must get.

Charlie C
I really enjoy VZNav as well ... To me it is worth the $10 a month, heck with the $30 BB Data plan, + VZ Nav .. I am still saving $5 a month over what I was paying before @ $45 a month.
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Old 11-25-2007, 11:36 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Default VZ Navigator Not Quite Right

Quote:
Originally Posted by chascent View Post
Just updated my BB 8830 with the VZ navagator. Called Verizon to activate and I was up and running in minutes. I have to admit I am totally shocked on how good this is! I have a Nuvi 660 that cost me over 600 dollars and this is just as good. Voice activated turns with street names. Accurate to within 50 feet. Redraw is amazing and never lags. Has all the same features as the Nuvi like looking up restaurants, gas stations etc.

All and all I have to say that if you have a BB 8830 and do alot of traveling like I do this is a must get.

Charlie C
Hello Charlie C. I am glad that you're experience with VZ Navigator on your 8830 with Verizon is working out for you.

My experience, though, has been less than pleasing. My reply will focus exclusively on my experiences with and the operational characteristics of VZ Navigator on my BB 8830 WE on Verizon Wireless's network.

Where Am I

First of all, when I select "Where Am I" from the Maps menu, I am constantly positioned in the wrong place. If I am patient, I can get an accurate measurement some of the time. My first attempts involved over twenty (20) "Where Am I" selections, my using the Escape key to get back to the menu listing and doing it over and over again.

My initial results using "Where Am I" to plot my current position resulted in about four or five accurate readings--two of which were dead-on, though not at the same time--while the rest put me constantly three to five miles distant from my current location.

Now there was something telltale that may or may not shed light on just what VZ Navigator is doing to get it's initial fix. I'll detail my surmise on that in a moment. What I observed throughout my initial first trial was that the incorrect locations came up more than once in the same place, or very near the same place. Mistakes on first-fix in the same or nearly the same location? Near the same streets?

My thoughts on this is that this is near the cell tower sites and it is occurring due to tower triangulation via the Assisted GPS system. I was told that VZ Navigator downloads the mapping and augmented (corrected?) GPS data from whatever third-party provider with whom VZW is working, and the conglomerate is then dispatched to the handheld and displayed on VZ Navigator's screen.

Follow Me Map

This tool was the most useful feature for me to see and diagnose just how VZ Navigator was behaving on my 8830. Well, it works. Just adequately, though. It works because the map in this mode auto refreshes when the somewhat large cross-hatch indicator showing your position goes off the screen during Initial Time to First Fix (ITFF) when in this mapping mode.

I experienced the initial screen error I received most of the time when using the "Where Am I" feature discussed earlier. Then, when it was obvious that the map area in view was not the correct location, the screen refreshed, the cross-hatch icon jumped, moved, or otherwise was not visible, and the screen refreshed again.

When I finally recognized my street and road shapes, the cross-hatch icon had calmed down a bit. It moved slowly southeast, right along the edge of my road, then, when the cross-hatch center moved to the screen edge, it refreshed, and finally showed my true position, after moving a little as the GPS system balanced out.

I finally had my position. So what to do now but to plan a route. I selected a general search for a gas station 2.5 miles up the road, a place I know well. I know it well because I spent many the last couple of days on the phone with VZW Data Tech Support regarding this very issue...but that's another story .

Continuing, I selected this gas station when it came up (I'm thankful that the gas station POI database is fairly current for my area) and sought to navigate to it. Well, this is where VZ Navigator, for me, is a bust! The program did finally navigate, but not after getting the location wrong again, this time three times!

I was finally able to get the navigation feature--selected from the "Follow Me Map" mode--to get my location wrong just once, and then show the correct starting point. I suppose if I had started moving at that point in my car, I would have been able to see how it handled re-routes and the like.

CONCLUSION: VZ Navigator does not store the location, but rather recalculates a new position each time a mode change occurs!

This happens when one switches from "Where Am I" to "Follow Me Map" as well as when switching to navigation mode to a point of interest from "Follow Me Map!" Not very useful at all.

The fact is, VZ Navigator always seems to be doing an ITFF sequence, regardless of what mode is selected. When you make a change of mode, you have to get your position all over again. These are, to me, serious design flaws with this software, flaws that I would hope would have been addressed by it's designers; people who, I suspect, are not particularly designers of GPS software in general or by specialty.

Here is an example of normal GPS activity: Turn unit on, wait for GPS to get or update GPS Almanac from satellites (if necessary), consult almanac for GPS satellite positions, wait for needed satellite signals for first fix, consult almanac to see where we were last time (if applicable), apply new signals, when ready, to current device state, display location icon on screen with proper mapping area (on mapping units) in view. Read location on map screen!

The above is just a rough guide, and is not meant to be all-encompassing. My sequences may be off slightly, but that's the general gist of how a normal, handheld GPS Receiver gets it's information and displays in on it's screen. I am using my Garmin GPSmap 76CSx with a SiRF Star III chipset in it as a reference.

I do not find VZ Navigator particularly useful when it behaves like this. I was told that VZ Navigator also does not work in Extended Coverage Areas, of which I am on the fringe of one such area. Why would this not work if said 8830 is supposed to have an active GPS when using VZ Navigator? Simply because of the network involvement.

GPS data is filtered through VZW's mapping data partner, which takes a reading from the internal GPS chip--perhaps once each time, which would explain much between mode changes--downloads it from the handheld, then re-sends the information with the mapping data back to the handheld.

If VZ Navigator is not even using the full autonomous capabilities of the Qualcomm gpsOne integrated GPS chipset in this handheld for its own software, then further imposing technological restrictions by limiting the GPS data for use on its own network towers only, then how can anyone truly be expected to pay for this service?

These are my thoughts.

Warm regards,
Stephen A. Brown
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Old 11-26-2007, 04:28 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Is the only way to get vznav to download via the support site? My IT policy will not allow me to download third party apps so if they have wrapped this into a OS release it would be nice.
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Old 11-26-2007, 04:30 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Wirelessly posted (BlackBerry8830/4.2.2 Profile/MIDP-2.0 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/105)

Is the only way to get vznav to download via the support site? My IT policy will not allow me to download third party apps so if they have wrapped this into a OS release it would be nice.
Even if it was included with an OS (which it is not) it would still be considered a third-party application and your IT Policy would not permit its installation or use.
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Old 11-26-2007, 05:34 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Charlie,
Thank you for sharing. Maybe I will take the plunge sooner than expected.
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Old 11-26-2007, 06:51 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chascent View Post
...and picks up the gps satellites even in your home.
If your home is big enough to get lost in, can't you just pay someone to read a map for you?

I never have been able to justify VZWs marketing angle on that one. I had a nice little argument with our reps on why they chose to cripple a working free GPS solution and replace it with their "pay to play" version. I don't mind having the VZNavigator for those who want to pay for it, but to force people to use it? It urks me to know that there is a GPS receiver in the 8830 just sitting there dormant.
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Old 11-26-2007, 11:23 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chascent View Post
Just updated my BB 8830 with the VZ navagator. Called Verizon to activate and I was up and running in minutes. I have to admit I am totally shocked on how good this is! I have a Nuvi 660 that cost me over 600 dollars and this is just as good. Voice activated turns with street names. Accurate to within 50 feet. Redraw is amazing and never lags. Has all the same features as the Nuvi like looking up restaurants, gas stations etc.

All and all I have to say that if you have a BB 8830 and do alot of traveling like I do this is a must get.

Charlie C
Dude sounds like a VZW PR guy or something. You make me laugh dude!!! Give it up! :lol:
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Old 11-26-2007, 11:48 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by JRSCCivic98 View Post
Dude sounds like a VZW PR guy or something. You make me laugh dude!!! Give it up! :lol:
really?
Well I dont work for VZW, but I like vznav. Is it the best? Dunno, I have never used the competitors on a BB. I have a Garmin 276c in my truck and two Northstar's in my boat. Does vznav compare to them? Apples and oranges. In my opinion its perfect for what it is.

I was at a party the other night and they were looking for the number for Soho Pizza in Albany. I had the number from vznav faster than they did from 411. I was inside and vznav knew where I was, and when I did a search for "pizza" Soho was on page two (I should have done "soho" )I would call that "working fine". Would I navigate my boat with it? No. Would I use it in my truck? No. Would I use it while walking in San Fran, lost, looking for a restaraunt? Fer sure.
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Old 11-26-2007, 03:19 PM   #13 (permalink)
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I can find Pizza with a non anal retentive carrier (sprint) and google maps for free. That's what $100 a year to spend elsewhere, I'll take it.

It's not that Verizon Nav is that bad or anything, it's just the way that Verizon is shoving it down people's throats that people are resenting. People should have choices and the telco's absolutely suck when it comes to this.
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Old 11-26-2007, 04:19 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by falqon View Post
I can find Pizza with a non anal retentive carrier (sprint) and google maps for free. That's what $100 a year to spend elsewhere, I'll take it.

It's not that Verizon Nav is that bad or anything, it's just the way that Verizon is shoving it down people's throats that people are resenting. People should have choices and the telco's absolutely suck when it comes to this.
Yup, and I agree, it sux to have to pay for it.
but the OP said that he likes vznav and that it works for him, that doesn't make him a troll or a plant.
All I am saying is:
1) I totally agree that it should be free
2) I also agree that it works pretty well.
3) I wouldn't use it to replace the GPS in my truck.

But hey, thats just me.

If people are so pissed off, then go to another carrier. I am willing to pay $10/month, if enough people aren't, and they leave, maybe it will make a difference to the bottom line. I don't think that people paying the $10/month is ruining it for other users, I don't think that its wrong to pay it, I don't think that verizon is susceptible to a lawsuit (IANAL), I think that they are dicks for charging.

I don't need to free Tibet, I need to free my data, but in the meantime, I'll pay.
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Old 11-26-2007, 05:20 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by kirwoodd View Post
, but in the meantime, I'll pay.
Blah, blah, blah, blah, and that's exactly why VZW keeps doing this. Because people like you "pay". :hammeronhead:
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Old 11-26-2007, 05:35 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by JRSCCivic98 View Post
Blah, blah, blah, blah, and that's exactly why VZW keeps doing this. Because people like you "pay". :hammeronhead:
get over yourself! just STHU already about it. why flame a guy because he likes something you dont. I liked vznavigator on my lg8600 and I didnt mind paying for it either.


Quote:
Originally Posted by kirwoodd View Post
Yup, and I agree, it sux to have to pay for it.
but the OP said that he likes vznav and that it works for him, that doesn't make him a troll or a plant.
All I am saying is:
1) I totally agree that it should be free
2) I also agree that it works pretty well.
3) I wouldn't use it to replace the GPS in my truck.

But hey, thats just me.

If people are so pissed off, then go to another carrier. I am willing to pay $10/month, if enough people aren't, and they leave, maybe it will make a difference to the bottom line. I don't think that people paying the $10/month is ruining it for other users, I don't think that its wrong to pay it, I don't think that verizon is susceptible to a lawsuit (IANAL), I think that they are dicks for charging.

I don't need to free Tibet, I need to free my data, but in the meantime, I'll pay.
I have been saying the same thing but the troll wont stop

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Old 11-26-2007, 08:22 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Default PR guy are you kidding me

I am far from a PR guy from Verizon. I am merely sharing my experience with something that I think works great. I also agree that its not right to disable the GPS in the phone itself but I have to say that VZ Navigator works perfectly. Just used it again this morning and it was perfect. I have planned several trips and it has been dead on. For those of you that have the BB 8830 give it a shot for 1 month. I am sure you will be pleasantly surprised.
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Old 11-26-2007, 10:50 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by chascent View Post
For those of you that have the BB 8830 give it a shot for 1 month. I am sure you will be pleasantly surprised.
It's not about being pleasantly surprised. VZNav does nothing that anything else cannot do. I'm sure I wouldn't have a problem with adding the service if ALL other carriers of the 88xx series phones did the same thing. But history has tought me differently about Verizon. So until they change their ways I'll be GPSin' fo FREE via my own means and I suggest anyone else interested in driving change to do the same. Problem here is consumers are blinded lemmings who'd rather pay. I can understand paying more for better coverage/service (that's the boat I'm in), but paying for services that are blatantly taxed for no reason is just foolish.
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Old 11-26-2007, 11:09 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by JRSCCivic98 View Post
It's not about being pleasantly surprised. VZNav does nothing that anything else cannot do. I'm sure I wouldn't have a problem with adding the service if ALL other carriers of the 88xx series phones did the same thing. But history has tought me differently about Verizon. So until they change their ways I'll be GPSin' fo FREE via my own means and I suggest anyone else interested in driving change to do the same. Problem here is consumers are blinded lemmings who'd rather pay. I can understand paying more for better coverage/service (that's the boat I'm in), but paying for services that are blatantly taxed for no reason is just foolish.
While I see your point, it is a matter of convenience really. If something works to the maximum functionality that they will ever use it for, why use something else, especially when no other devices are needed to use the service. For people that are looking for more than VZ nav offers I find it completely reasonable that they seek alternative gps methods, however, for the vast majority of users the program fits the needs of the consumer.

Bottom line, if you don't like it, don't pay for it. If something works better, use it. If you don't like the carrier...switch. People make this out to be some huge conspiracy, yet they still pay. If they are so enraged by this why do they continue service?


EDIT: I thought of something a coworker was venting to me today. He kept complaining about ATM fees going up when you use a different banks ATM. He was completely upset about this. My response "You have three choices really. You can pay the charge, you can bank with them and it is free, or you can go another couple blocks to your banks ATM." The point is that the American consumer is all about convenience.
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Old 11-27-2007, 06:04 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Demon View Post
While I see your point, it is a matter of convenience really. If something works to the maximum functionality that they will ever use it for, why use something else, especially when no other devices are needed to use the service. For people that are looking for more than VZ nav offers I find it completely reasonable that they seek alternative gps methods, however, for the vast majority of users the program fits the needs of the consumer.

Bottom line, if you don't like it, don't pay for it. If something works better, use it. If you don't like the carrier...switch. People make this out to be some huge conspiracy, yet they still pay. If they are so enraged by this why do they continue service?


EDIT: I thought of something a coworker was venting to me today. He kept complaining about ATM fees going up when you use a different banks ATM. He was completely upset about this. My response "You have three choices really. You can pay the charge, you can bank with them and it is free, or you can go another couple blocks to your banks ATM." The point is that the American consumer is all about convenience.
Demon you are wasting your breath on this one. He wont listen he will continue to complain no matter what.

I am with you if you dont like it vote with your dollar. He would rather bash those of us who are satisfied with the service we use, I think the term lemmings was used. For some its easier to insult happy people when you are so miserable in your own life.
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