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Old 05-27-2008, 11:18 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Trouble with third party apps. (yes, all of them...)

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Ok, here we go folks: the problem is I do not seem to be able to run third party apps on my 8820 due to the fact that said apps. appear to be unable to access the internet connection that is indeed available on the device. At present I have tried the following three applications: Opera Mini, Yahoo mail & Google maps, no go for all of them always with the same error message, i.e. no internet connection.

For quite some time I had been wrestling with an IT policy – inherited from the 8820’s previous owner - which kept the firewall enabled and stopped me from modifying its settings so after I finally managed to rid the phone of it using the “restore to factory” option in JL_Cmder I really thought I had cracked it. One thing that’s sure is that now the firewall is showing as disabled in settings and gone is the little red padlock alongside it meaning that I can fiddle with it to my heart’s content; so too are all the error messages stating that “operette is trying to open a connection inside the firewall and outside the firewall blah, blah, blah”. I now get a couple of more normal messages when launching Opera Mini which other people also report seeing on their devices but contrary to them after a couple of minutes’ wait I get the same “no internet connection” error message I ended up with even before when the firewall was in the way. Similar story with both Yahoo Mail and Google Maps – no messages popping up there but still claiming no internet connection available in the end – with the added aggro that Google Maps seems to mess up my data connection whenever I launch it and I need to perform a battery pull to get the Vodafone Live! browser to work again. One thing to be kept in mind is that from what I hear OM 4.1 works with wi-fi but even when that’s available the story remains the same. By contrast the embedded BB wi-fi browser works wonderfully with wi-fi and the Vodafone Live! browser too functions quite happily on lower case gprs/edge.

I have no BB data plan on my contract, hence no BES or BIS and for the time being I intend to keep it that way so it’s all the more important that third party apps. should be made to work. I am not exactly dying to get this to happen but really there’s so much more that I feel I’m missing out on at present. Please note that I also recently managed to get the 8820 to work as a tethered modem with my laptop and that’s one more evidence of the fact that it does handle data on its current set-up.

One thing I almost forgot to mention, all the permissions on each one of the apps. is set to "allow"...

Any ideas anyone please... Thanks,

Piero
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Old 05-27-2008, 11:23 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Have you set your APN settings for your carrier in your BlackBerry. Options > Adacnced > TCP? Most third party applications won't work without this.
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Old 05-27-2008, 11:44 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pallavik View Post
I have no BB data plan on my contract, hence no BES or BIS and for the time being [...]
I believe that, even though you have a Wifi capable BB, successfully connected to a Wifi network, that you MUST have a BB data plan (BIS or better) in order to be able to browse or use the Internet over your network.

Other readers may confirm/deny this but that is certainly how it works here on Rogers in Canada (no, I don't have an 8820 or Wifi BB, but have read enough posts to be able to confirm that this is true, with Rogers at least).
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Old 05-27-2008, 12:02 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klotar View Post
I believe that, even though you have a Wifi capable BB, successfully connected to a Wifi network, that you MUST have a BB data plan (BIS or better) in order to be able to browse or use the Internet over your network.

Other readers may confirm/deny this but that is certainly how it works here on Rogers in Canada (no, I don't have an 8820 or Wifi BB, but have read enough posts to be able to confirm that this is true, with Rogers at least).
I missed the not having a data plan. You will be very limited with what you can do without a data plan even having WiFi.
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Old 05-27-2008, 12:54 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Thanks for getting back to me troydbrown and klotar.

All I can say is that third party apps. are being said to be able to run regardless of the presence of a BB data plan which is part of the reason why they are so popular amongst all users but particularly with those like myself with no BB plan - I get the feeling there's quite a few of us out there that have chosen not to shell out the extra 15 quid a month, Vodafone UK prices.

I would like to point also that I AM currently surfing the internet from my handheld using the Vodafone Live! version of the built-in BB browser regardless of the absence of said plan as I do have and have had for years a generic data plan which works faultlessly; hence my TPS settings - which I copied directly from my earlier Nokia N73 - must be correct. Wi-fi too works perfectly on my home wireless and I haven't noticed any limitation of any description to the service I receive. Only thing is third party apps. which should thrive on a generic data plan like mine don't for some reason.

Any other idea plz.?

Piero
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Old 05-27-2008, 02:02 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Well, you do have a data plan if you are using TCP and copied settings over. They may be GPRS as opposed to EDGE but there is data capability there.

So, you can probably use the WAP browser or carrier browser but I would guess not the Blackberry browser, which requires service books which are part of a Blackberry plan. To clarify, you wouldn't be able to download applications OTA, for example. However, I can't confirm that last statement first-hand, unless I delete my service book to test that -- so perhaps someone more knowledgeable can jump in.

I probably won't do a good job explaining this well, but a data plan and blackberry plan, while they sound similar and seem to achieve the same result... aren't the same. It's more than just data compression or email or data speed; it's what servers it goes through. A BB plan routes through RIM's servers, whereas a generic data plan just goes through your wireless carrier.

Bleh, that didn't come out well -- perhaps someone else can illustrate this better than I can.
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Old 05-28-2008, 12:04 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klotar View Post
Well, you do have a data plan if you are using TCP and copied settings over. They may be GPRS as opposed to EDGE but there is data capability there.

So, you can probably use the WAP browser or carrier browser but I would guess not the Blackberry browser, which requires service books which are part of a Blackberry plan. To clarify, you wouldn't be able to download applications OTA, for example. However, I can't confirm that last statement first-hand, unless I delete my service book to test that -- so perhaps someone more knowledgeable can jump in.

I probably won't do a good job explaining this well, but a data plan and blackberry plan, while they sound similar and seem to achieve the same result... aren't the same. It's more than just data compression or email or data speed; it's what servers it goes through. A BB plan routes through RIM's servers, whereas a generic data plan just goes through your wireless carrier.

Bleh, that didn't come out well -- perhaps someone else can illustrate this better than I can.

Klotar, I have downloaded all the third party programs OTA and they seemed to install OK, only they do not manage to connect to the internet and launch correctly...

I was aware that data funneled through a BB plan would go through the RIM servers in North America instead of those of my wireless provider; anyway you seem to doubt somewhat your ability to explain clearly what you try to convey but I believe I got all that you said OK. All the help I can get is most welcome...

Piero
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Old 05-28-2008, 12:11 PM   #8 (permalink)
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If you are ONLY using wifi for internet then your 3rd party apps will NOT work. ONLY a few 3rd party apps will use a stand alone wifi connection for their data.
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Old 05-29-2008, 03:30 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Mmmh, yes I was sort of aware that third party apps. are meant to be installed from gprs/edge connection rather than wi-fi. I'm just baffled at how none of them seems to see any data connection whilst there's obviously one that's working. It appears to me that there must be some kind of selective settings that still preclude their access to the internet.

For the time being my money is on missing service books for the type of connection third party apps. resort to. One of these days I will find the time to get in touch with Vodafone and ask if they can supply what I'm after but if they give me a negative reply I will be stuck a bit, unless some other BB user can send service books over to my device... I believe I read somewhere that may be possible but I don't know if anyone can confirm that... Anyone? JC?

Cheers,

Piero

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Old 05-29-2008, 08:09 AM   #10 (permalink)
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I am using 8820 with BB data plan and not getting connected to google maps, yahoo go and other similar applications. I get a message stating no data connection. I dont think that its the BB data plan that makes these applications work..there could be some error in the configuration of the mobile. Any workaround?
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Old 05-29-2008, 10:02 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fazal View Post
I am using 8820 with BB data plan and not getting connected to google maps, yahoo go and other similar applications. I get a message stating no data connection. I dont think that its the BB data plan that makes these applications work..there could be some error in the configuration of the mobile. Any workaround?
Cheers
Now that's an interesting post, just in case I was tempted to believe that the very moment that I would consider subscribing to a BB data plan all of my trouble would automatically vanish... I think I'll try some more before I do that.

Thanks for the info Fazal.

Piero
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Old 05-29-2008, 10:21 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Pallavik,
There is no "testing" necessary. Your issue is that you have no BB data plan. You can't get Service Books without a data plan. Even if you could get them, they wouldn't work since you have no data plan. I said it once already...only a small handful of apps are written to take advantage of the stand-alone wifi connection. Once the apps are written to use a wifi connection with no data plan then they'll work. JiveTalk works over a stand-alone wifi plan. The apps you are referring to DO NOT.

There is NOTHING you can do....you can search until the cows come home. There is NO WAY you're going to get it without a data plan. It's just not possible. I hope that is clear enough.
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Old 05-29-2008, 11:18 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Got you loud and clear there JC, I'll keep banging my head against the brickwall a little longer just out of personal enjoyment... And when I'll deem the time to have come I'll subscribe to some kind of BB data plan.

Cheers,

Piero
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