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Old 12-19-2008, 12:52 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Difference between 7100t and 8700t?

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Hi all, new to this forum. But anyway, here's the big question:
what is the main difference between the 7100t and the 8700t bb's?
And I do not mean the keypad! Reason I'm asking is I have both models and
with the 8700 I can browse the internet with Opera Mini, with the 7100 no can do! Why? I am not on BES, BIS, beer or any substance. I have this SIM card from a carrier here in Finland, a GPRS contract. With the 8700 I see "gprs" as the connection, same with the 7100 with the same SIM card, but I can only connect to the net with the 8700. I also have a SIM card from another carrier here in Finland and it's the same thing with this card: internet 8700, no internet 7100. Why? OS on the 7100 is 4.1.0.292, on the 8700 4.5.0.69, but it worked just the same with OS 4.2. Both handhelds are unlocked and with blank IT-policies (downloaded from this forum). I've read about this uppercase/lowercase GPRS-thing on this and other forums, but nowhere have I found mentioned the reason for getting lowercase or uppercase. If someone
out there is in the know, please, enlighten me.
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Old 12-19-2008, 01:01 PM   #2 (permalink)
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The 8700 has 2X the memory for storage and 4X the SRAM, meaning it can run programs the 7100 cannot. The 8700 is just more modern and therefor way more capable.
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Old 12-20-2008, 12:18 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Default Well, Iknow that, but....

Yes, that I know, but don't think it is the reason. If it were true, then it would be generally impossible to connect to the internet through Opera Mini 3 on a 7100. Opera Mini 3 runs in a 7100 and tries to make a connection to the internet, but fails. I forgot to mention in my posting the "data connection refused"-text, that shows on the 7100 home screen. With the same SIM-card I do not get that text on the 8700. When is "data connection refused" on a 7100? Anyone?
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Old 12-20-2008, 09:52 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Take a look at this re edge vs EDGE, etc:

View Document

Additionally, from what you describe, you haven't subscribed to blackberry data service. You are using your carrier's APN or whatever. Have those settings been configured on the 8700 and thus opera mini is working on that device, but not the 7100?

And, see How to use BlackBerry on Generic Data Plan - BlackBerryFAQ, which may help.
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Last edited by aiharkness : 12-20-2008 at 09:58 AM.
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Old 12-20-2008, 10:02 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Practically speaking, if you have a choice, use the 8700 vice the 7100. Faster device, EDGE capable, best keyboard, and the display is visbile in outdoors in daylight (which the 7100 is not).
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Old 12-21-2008, 01:46 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Default Thanks, but...

Thank you for the advice, but it really isn't getting me anywhere. As to the document on BB's site about gprs vs. egde, it doesn't explain anything. You see lowercase or uppercase, but why is that? No explanation. And besides, I see lowercase "gprs" on my 8700 and I'm still able to surf the net with Opera Mini 3.1 and able to use MGMaps and, before I a few days ago "upgraded" to OS 4.5, I could also use BBmaps. But with the 7100 on the same SIM, nothing doing. I repeat, I am not on BES or any other substance, for that matter. I do not think it even possible to be on BES here in Nokia-Land. I have a plain GPRS-contract from two different carriers here in Finland and with those two SIMs the situation is the same, no internet with the 7100. We have two 7100's in the family (off the eBay cheap), and both work (or don't work) the same. On one of the those I can disable the firewall even, but that doesn't help. On the 7100 I can't change the option in Options>Advanced Options>Applications>Opera Mini 3>Edit Permissions>Interactions to "allow" from "Custom", as I can on the 8700. Every other setting is the same on 8700 and the 7100.
So what is so different about the 7100 compared to the 8700? How does the carrier "see" a 7100 differently from a 8700?
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Old 12-21-2008, 01:55 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Petskin View Post
Thank you for the advice, but it really isn't getting me anywhere. As to the document on BB's site about gprs vs. egde, it doesn't explain anything. You see lowercase or uppercase, but why is that?
GSM - Voice / SMS Only

gprs - Low speed data conection to carrier can use some 3rd party applications.

GPRS - Low speed connection to carrier and connection to RIM servers. Full access to all Data services including email, PIN, BB Browser etc.

edge - Same as gprs but faster connection.

EDGE - Same as GPRS but faster connection.
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Old 12-24-2008, 10:37 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Default Yes, well...

Seems my question will remain unanswered. Going through some of the earlier posts on this forum I noticed someone else had had exactly
the same problem I have. No help there, either. So it shall remain a deep
mystery why a BlackBerry 7100 will not connect to the internet when
a 8700 will. Or to put it another way: why won't a 7100 connect to the internet when there is no obvious reason not to connect? Why a 7100 dis-
plays the message "data connection refused", when there is a proper
data-plan in use ("gprs" in lowercase, which works with a 8700)? Why?
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Old 12-24-2008, 10:46 AM   #9 (permalink)
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You are not following along here..

Data Connection refused means you have no BlackBerry Data Plan. A regular data plan just isn't the same. Since you clearly do not have a BlackBerry Data Plan, you will never get full use out of any BlackBerry.

The 8700 has a far superior radio. EDGE is the next generation over GPRS. You will NEVER see EDGE or GPRS (upper case) without a BlackBerry Data Plan

Does any of this make sense?
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Old 12-25-2008, 02:42 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Default I'm following, all right, but...

So what you are saying is, if I follow you, that the reason for not getting
an internet connection on the 7100 is that it is not "edge" capable? In other words: there is no hope ever of connecting to the internet without "edge" if you are not on a BB-plan? To go back to my original question, the fundamental difference then, between the 8700 and the 7100, is the "edge" capability? So, as I can connect to the internet with my 8700 without a BB-plan of any kind, just a regular gprs-connection, and as I can not connect to the internet with that very same SIM-card in my 7100, it is all due to the fact the 7100 is not "edge" capable? Even though my 8700 shows "gprs", in lowercase, as the connection , not "GPRS", not "edge", not "EDGE".
Even though I can connect to the internet on the "edge" capable 8700, I do
not know if that connection in fact is an "edge" connection, as the phone shows "gprs" for the connection type. As I turn on the wireless connection on my 8700 and the phone makes the connection to the carrier, the text "GSM", in uppercase", briefly shows as the connection type, then it turns into "gprs", in lowercase. This seems to indicate that the uppercase-
lowercase marking of the connection type holds true also with the regular, non-BB, data-plans. And if that is true, then the troubles in connecting to the internet with the 7100 have nothing to do with "edge"?
Right?
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Old 12-25-2008, 02:57 PM   #11 (permalink)
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I'm sorry - the post is unreadable. The 7100 is not an EDGE capable device. That is a fact.

Upper case EDGE and GPRS indicate whether the device has connected to the RIM network. Without a Blackberry Data Plan you will never get EDGE or GPRS on a BlackBerry.

At the end of the day, without a BlackBerry Data Plan, you will have very limited devices. Especially the 7100, which is running on gprs. That is slightly faster than dialup.
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Old 12-25-2008, 03:31 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Wirelessly posted (8820)

The OP says, "...Reason I'm asking is I have both models andwith the 8700 I can browse the internet with Opera Mini, with the 7100 no can do! Why?" And says there's no difference other than 7100 vs 8700. That's his question, I believe.
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Old 12-25-2008, 04:03 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Yes, and there are many differences between the 7100 and the 8700. GPRS vs. EDGE. The possibility of an IT Policy on one.
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Old 12-27-2008, 02:03 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Default Oh, well...

OK. I'll try to make it very simple. Here's the situation:
Two phones on the kitchen table: one 8700 with OS 4.2, the other 7100 with OS 4.1.
Blank IT-policy in both phones.
A generic gprs-plan or contract or whatever you wish to call it - no BB- data-plan, no BES.
I put the SIM-card with that generic gprs-contract into the 8700. I get "gprs", in lowercase, as the connection type shown in the upper right-hand corner of the screen.
I turn on Opera Mini 3.1 browser application and presto! - I'm surfing the Internet! Way cool! Awsome! Way way cool cool!
I close the application Opera Mini 3.1.
I shut down the 8700. I take out the SIM-card.
I put that very same SIM-card into the 7100.
The screen shows "gprs", in lowercase, as the connection type.
It also shows the text "data connection refused".
I ignore that.
I go on and turn on the Opera Mini 3.1 browser application and - no connection to the Internet! Not so cool! Not cool at all. Let alone awesome!
I ask my self: why?! Why??!!
I'm baffled, bedaffled, whatever. I don't get it. Why?
I decide to get an expert's opinion.
I register on the Blackberry Forum.
I present my question to the forum.
My question is not understood.
My sentences are too complicated.
I turn on my audio amplifier. I put Joe ****er's "Don't let me be misundertsood" on the record player.
I'm baffled, bedaffled, whatever. I don't get it. Why?
I decide to let this thing be, let it rest.
Who cares!


Here is an additional bit of fact, that may have some relevance:
signal strenght, according to the "status" report on the phones, hovering between -80 dBm and -105 dBm, on both phones.
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Old 12-27-2008, 02:15 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Did you make sure that the TCP settings are the same on both phones?

That could be WHY WHY.

Double check the TCP settings on both devices.
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Old 12-27-2008, 02:28 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Default TCP settings

TCP settings the same on both phones.

My feeling is this may have something to do with the signal strenght.
Yesterday I was in a location where I saw "edge" as the connection
type with that SIM-card in the 8700.
Unfortunately I didn't have the 7100 with me to experiment.
Maybe the 8700 just has a better receiver.
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Old 12-27-2008, 02:29 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Could be and it certainly has EDGE while the 7100 only has GPRS. That would impact speed, but EDGE should always fail down to GPRS anyway.
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Old 12-30-2008, 10:28 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Default TCP settings revisited

There is a very helpful lady in the technical customer service at
my carrier. She informed me today, that my phone (BB 7100) seems to
be using a wrong APN address in trying to connect to the Internet.
I definitely have set the right APN address in the TCP settings, checked
and doublechecked that. Is there some other place or other way to set the
APN address besides in the TCP settings?
Could an APN address be "built in" in the OS? My phone still shows the T-Mobile logo at startup, altough the OS has been changed?
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Old 12-30-2008, 10:57 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Wirelessly posted (8820)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Petskin
There is a very helpful lady in the technical customer service at
my carrier. She informed me today, that my phone (BB 7100) seems to
be using a wrong APN address in trying to connect to the Internet.
I definitely have set the right APN address in the TCP settings, checked
and doublechecked that. Is there some other place or other way to set the
APN address besides in the TCP settings?
Could an APN address be "built in" in the OS? My phone still shows the T-Mobile logo at startup, altough the OS has been changed?
You said TCP settings same on both blackberrys... But whatever. Less writing, more actual reading what people tell and ask, and google would help.

A search on apn dna finland yields up:

APN: internet
Username: leave blank
Password: leave blank

Is that what you are using?

The APN is not in the OS. You enter it in the TCP settings in options.

The logo splash screen is permanent. Can't be changed. Regardless of OS or unlocking, etc. Has nothing to do with apn settings.
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Old 12-30-2008, 01:47 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Default Yes, yes...

That is what I am using, APN: internet.
Same setting on both phones but the 7100 won't connect and, according
to the technical help lady, it seems the 7100 is trying to connect using a different APN setting. Despite the fact the setting is the same and correct on both phones. So my question is: is there another way of setting the APN
address besides setting it in the TCP settings? And could another APN setting somehow be burried deeper in the phone?
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