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Old 12-04-2005, 02:16 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Why are the 8700s debuting so cheap?

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Okay when the 6230 series debuted it cost about $299-$399.
When the 7230 series debut it was $399 - $499
(the lower price reflects with mobile contract, the higher price reflect w/o contract)

Now the 8700 debut and I'd assume would be roughly priced similarly to the Treo 650 ($499 with contract, more without) and not to mention the new HP 6515 smartphone that cingular sells for $499 with the plan and close to $600 without a plan.

So why is the 8700 only $249 with a contract and $299-$399 elsewhere?

Am I suspecting poorer quality? is RIM hurting economically? what's up?

Even the cingular 7290 is still $249 to $299 with contract.
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Old 12-04-2005, 02:35 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Carriers are subsidizing the crap out of them. Where are you seeing an 8700 without a contract for $300? I paid quite a bit more for one without a contract.

RIM has $1.8B in cash. Stock is still strong in spite of the lawsuits.

And I think the 8700 is the best BB I've used.

I don't see anything wrong here.
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Old 12-04-2005, 02:40 PM   #3 (permalink)
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The only place you will see it for $249 is someone that is subsidizing it. Cingular is $349 with a $50 rebate dropping it to $299. The list price is $500. An outstanding unit and the first Smartphone that offers a converged device where I didn't feel like I needed to carry another phone with me to have a decent phone experience.
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Old 12-04-2005, 02:42 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Although I personally felt that Barjohn has been extremely critical of the BlackBerrys in the past, I completely agree with him on this one. I love the 8700. Now, if only I can get it unlocked and on T-Mobile
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Old 12-04-2005, 02:45 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I call them as I see them. When they do it right I will be the first to say so and when they don't well...
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Old 12-04-2005, 02:46 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I didn't say you were wrong - just very critical...
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Old 12-04-2005, 02:55 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I didn't know whether you were questioning whether I was right or wrong but I would have to agree that I can be very critical. Some of the nits I am seeing posted go even beyond my idea of critical. The electronics and functionality of this device are truly at the top of the heap. The plastic I would rate as adequate but I would love a nice black magnesium cased unit. I would have preferred if they had used the same material as used in the 7290 case. Maybe the 8700r uses that material, I can't judge not having one.
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Old 12-04-2005, 02:58 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Paint has never been my favorite coating of choice on a PDA. Paint + the crappy plastic holsters are a disaster (relatively speaking).

But back to the topics of 8700s debuting so cheap... I don't see it..
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Old 12-04-2005, 03:39 PM   #9 (permalink)
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$299 is dirt cheap when you juxatopose the unit with other top data phones that cost $349 (price of 7290s last summer); the iPaq hw6515 that cost $499 before rebates, any Treo costing $449 after rebates....

check it out on:

www.cnet.com


http://onlinestorez.cingular.com/cel...yId=1717200027
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Old 12-04-2005, 03:52 PM   #10 (permalink)
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I love my 8700. Its the single best converged device I've ever used, and I've had a Treo 600, Treo 650, SMT 5600, PPC Phone Edition, MPX 200, etc. I think RIM understands that a converged device suffers when it tries to replace your phone, pda, video player, picture viewer, digital camera, mp3 player and video camera. IMHO the 8700 is tops for Phone and PIM.
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Old 12-04-2005, 03:55 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Default What's cheap

It's not my 8700. I feel the same way about as the others here. The first great experience of a phone and pda. At 449 retail why do you think that is cheap? Anything less is a subsidy.
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Old 12-04-2005, 04:19 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Default NJ why TMobile?

Do you mostly stay in NJ. With the more limited coverage without the 850 spectrum don't you find that limiting?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NJBlackBerry
Although I personally felt that Barjohn has been extremely critical of the BlackBerrys in the past, I completely agree with him on this one. I love the 8700. Now, if only I can get it unlocked and on T-Mobile
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Old 12-04-2005, 04:44 PM   #13 (permalink)
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I've been a T-Mobile customer for years. Coverage here is not an issue for me (YMMV, actual mileage may be different. See dealer for details). Wife and daughter are also on T-Mobile.

I travel all over the world. T-Mobile, IMHO, has the best global roaming agreements. I do benefit from having the 850 MHz band when it roams in places where T-Mobile does not have a network, like the US Virgin Islands.

The number one reason I stay with T-Mobile is that we get superb customer service from them, both in the US and International. I can't get the time of day from Cingular, and I work for a company that has over 1000 BlackBerrys and several thousand cell phones.

Last edited by NJBlackBerry : 12-04-2005 at 05:07 PM.
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Old 12-04-2005, 05:03 PM   #14 (permalink)
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NJ,
Totally agree about TMo btw. ANyway, I'm getting my 8700c unlocked - trying the guy from gsmphonesource on ebay. Should be done tomorrow - I'll report back once I get my TMo SIM in place and email, etc set up
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Old 12-04-2005, 05:08 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Yes, I agree with NJBlackberry. T-mo's service is far better than Cingular's.
Price of 8700 so cheap ??? I know there was a mention that since RIM was almost a month late in releasing the 8700 so they really wanted to revamp that lost time by cutting the prices.
Because earlier they was very sure that Business customers will be given preference in giving BB8700 but then they were late and holiday season was around so their marketing was more centered towards the consumers and not so much on biz customers.
Hopefully it works for them.
I will still wait for T-mo to have 8700t because then I know atleast it will be unlocked for me. Cingular will not do it.
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Old 12-04-2005, 05:15 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stinsonddog
Do you mostly stay in NJ. With the more limited coverage without the 850 spectrum don't you find that limiting?
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJBlackBerry
. . . I travel all over the world. T-Mobile, IMHO, has the best global roaming agreements. I do benefit from having the 850 MHz band when it roams in places where T-Mobile does not have a network, like the US Virgin Islands. . . .
Additionally, in case most of you don't know, TMO USA has roaming agreements with other GSM carriers including, Cingular, without any cost to TMO subscribers, meaning, no roaming charges. However, one must be aware that the unlimited mobile-to-mobile feature does not apply when you're hooked on to a partner carrier network, so you're calls to other TMO subscribers will be deducted from your Anytime plan minutes. This roaming agreement practically enables a t-mobile subscriber to be reachable where ever there's gsm service. . .

Last edited by crisambo : 12-04-2005 at 05:19 PM.
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Old 12-04-2005, 07:05 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crisambo
Additionally, in case most of you don't know, TMO USA has roaming agreements with other GSM carriers including, Cingular, without any cost to TMO subscribers, meaning, no roaming charges. However, one must be aware that the unlimited mobile-to-mobile feature does not apply when you're hooked on to a partner carrier network, so you're calls to other TMO subscribers will be deducted from your Anytime plan minutes. This roaming agreement practically enables a t-mobile subscriber to be reachable where ever there's gsm service. . .

The roaming agreements are to enhance coverage where T-Mobile has none. If they have service in a market that, say Cingular, serves, you can't roam on Cingular when you're T-Mobile signal is weak or not available.

Take NJ as an example, NE part of the state has excellent coverage while other areas can be hit or miss. I can't roam on Cingular when T-Mobile has no signal in NJ. Well, I can roam but I get SOS Emergency Calls Only.

According to a thread in www.howardforums.com, T-Mobile signed a bunch of roaming agreements recently and the coverage map is much larger than the T-Mobile map on thier site, Amazon has the latest map. I think they also allow you to get M2M free when roaming now.

Actually I hope I'm wrong and you're right so you can tell me how to get that to work. It'll make things much better for me.

Regards-Michael G.
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