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Old 12-06-2005, 09:49 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Is the 8700C upgradable to what comes after EDGE?

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Hello:

I have been following some of the posts on the network that the 8700 uses for data - EDGE. The speed estimates and benchmarking have been useful to examine. Some people have even compared EDGE to Verizon's EV-DO. Looks like EDGE is a little slower. That sucks, but I suppose we can not have it all. I have even heard of some other post-EDGE alternatives that Cingular has been working on. I think that Barjohn mentioned one in a post. Can not recall the name, though.

My specific question is this: Will the 8700C be upgradable to something that comes after EDGE, or will the new network require a new device?

I suppose the device is not that expensive where I could not replace it every once in a while. My corporate discount allowed me to get the 7290 at $100 and I will get the 8700C at $199 + 23% off the monthly service (which I expense anyway).

I am just trying to better understand if the next high speed network is coming and if it will work with the 8700C.

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Old 12-06-2005, 10:06 AM   #2 (permalink)
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I got my 8700c for $485 USD
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Old 12-06-2005, 10:21 AM   #3 (permalink)
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EDGE isn't even completely rolled out and you're worrying about the next network???

Last edited by NJBlackBerry : 12-06-2005 at 10:25 AM.
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Old 12-06-2005, 11:17 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Default A bit of an overstatement?

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Originally Posted by NJBlackBerry
EDGE isn't even completely rolled out and you're worrying about the next network???
Not sure that I am "worrying" about it at all. Just wondering.
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Old 12-06-2005, 11:55 AM   #5 (permalink)
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I believe that EDGE is completely rolled out and it doesn't compare to EVDO at all. The next generation is UMTS/HSDPA and I don't think that the device will be upgradeable to it. It will be a new device. Cingular has just started to launch UMTS/HSDPA now.
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Old 12-06-2005, 12:12 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Correct - EDGE is "2.5G" service, and is not upgradeable to 3G services. It requires separate hardware/radios. Verizon's EV-DO *is* a 3G service and has speeds waaaaaaaaay in excess of EDGE, closer to (slower) DSL speeds in the 300s-500s practically speaking (vs 100-120 for EDGE on a good day).

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Old 12-06-2005, 01:19 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Default HSDPA is supported by the Intel Chipset

That is what has been reported here. Would have to reflash the unit assuming everything else falls into place. That would make tethering to be an amazing experience.
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Old 12-06-2005, 01:35 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I was told by Cingular person, intel person and RIM person that the unit can be upgraded to UMTS/HSDPA. Whether it will is a different issue. That will depend on RIM to do the firmware and Cingular to want it and make it available.
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Old 12-06-2005, 02:08 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Default Cingular launches 3G network today

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Originally Posted by NJBlackBerry
EDGE isn't even completely rolled out and you're worrying about the next network???

http://cingular.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=pageB&item=3

So, it suddenly does become more relevant about the next network technology.
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Old 12-06-2005, 02:23 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RochesterBBOwner
http://cingular.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=pageB&item=3

So, it suddenly does become more relevant about the next network technology.
Funny how that happens... So now this question is at the top of my "gotta find out" list - are the 8700s capable of using the new 3g network? Firmware upgrade? Software upgrade? Why would they release this device just before this service if not compatible? Hopefully one of you know-it-alls has the correct and informative answer!
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Old 12-06-2005, 02:28 PM   #11 (permalink)
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What is Cingular's track record for releasing firmware updates to its various phones? Treos, PPCs, etc. Should give a decent indicator for what Cingular would do if (big IF) RIM provided the update to them. As for RIM, how have they been re: firmware updates and the like?

TM

PS - re my earlier post I stand corrected - I didn't realize that the Intel chipset in the 8700 was compatible with 3G
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Old 12-06-2005, 02:45 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJBlackBerry
EDGE isn't even completely rolled out and you're worrying about the next network???
EDGE has been widespread in Canada for 2 years now. EDGE coverage is everywhere. It's not a new network anymore around here.

UMTS is going to come sooner than you think -- less than a year later -- fired up by Verizon's successful growth of the well-advertised BroadbandAccess network.

Also, the 8700 is upgradeable to UMTS, just like the 7250 was upgradeable to EVDO. The chips in 8700 supports UMTS.
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Old 12-06-2005, 02:53 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Default Unsure...

This makes me really wonder if it is worth keeping the 8700c or just wait and see what is released in the coming year to utlize the 3G network. As well as BES access I am constantly using the internet service on my BB to keep updated with alot of different sources of information while on the go. But I could always use Good Link for corp. e-mail with another type of device. At this point I'm more concerned with having access to information faster. I'll gladly deal with sore thumbs on the newer Treo 700 granted that is HSDPA capable. I guess sacrifices have to be made somewhere.

Geez, just when I thought it was all going to be okay!!

"Cingular will initially launch the BroadbandConnect service in Austin (TX.), Baltimore, Boston, Chicago, Dallas, Houston, Las Vegas, Phoenix, Portland (OR.), Salt Lake City, San Diego, San Francisco, San Jose (CA.), Seattle, Tacoma (Wash.) and Washington D.C."

Why not New York ?!!

Bah...
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Old 12-06-2005, 04:32 PM   #14 (permalink)
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You can bet that when UMTS is deployed, Cingular will be deploying firmware upgrades on BlackBerry because they are playing catch-up to Verizons' BroadbandAccess.

It's totally possible that there'll be less time between the 8700 release and the UMTS upgrade, than the time between the 7250 release and the EVDO upgrade (Which was a painful 9 month wait!).

Many of us knew that the 7250 supported EVDO. Forum searches on "7250 EVDO" on posts with a date before 3 months ago, clearly show that. The specifications sheet for chips used in the 8700 clearly show UMTS support -- RIM has publicly revealed the chip, and then cross-referencing with Intel specifiation publicly reveals UMTS support. So this is public info. On top of this, UMTS on the 8700 is talked about among executives quite a lot more publicly than 7250 and EVDO.

It is still a wait, but well within the product lifecycle of the 8700, and possibly earlier than many think.
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Old 12-06-2005, 04:45 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Default Download speeds

While the modem experience was fine this am for emails, the web was ok, but with HSDPA, both will fly and yes Cingular will absolutely need this to keep up with EVDO.
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Old 12-06-2005, 04:50 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Verizon has a bigger lead, so EVDO reception will likely be better.

But Cingular is more upgrade-friendly than Verizon is, and even upgrade-shy Verizon released the EVDO upgrade (at least for business users). I'm pretty sure that RIM isn't going to hold back the UMTS upgrade if Cingular wants it deployed quickly, since the chips already support UMTS.

There's a lot of pressure to compete, and EVDO lit a fire under Cingular to get UMTS deployed as quickly as possible (even if it's a partial, incomplete deployment that misses a lot of cities)
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Old 12-06-2005, 07:15 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Concerning 8700 compatibility with UMTS, see the new thread by Barjon.

Telecon with RIM & Cingular Execs

Telecon with RIM & Cingular Execs 12/6/05

Hope this helps.
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Old 12-06-2005, 07:30 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Reason why they didn't launch in any HUGE market is because it is a brand new system, think about how many people would jump on that and overload the network...you don't see Atlanta, New York, LA, etc... Slowly but surely my friends...
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Old 12-06-2005, 08:45 PM   #19 (permalink)
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BG you are right on. They have their hands full and don't want to over commit. MMS is a simpler example in that it was a mutual RIM and Cingular decision to pull back until they could resolve the known problems rather than launch and be inundated with unhappy customers.
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