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Old 12-09-2005, 09:44 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Yesterday, after reecieveing a call asking why I wasn't responding to my PINNED messages I discovered that the 8700 was only locked on a GSM signal. That explains the no data. I am in Toronto, so presumed EDGE was available. I could not get the 8700 to detect the EDGE by turning the radio off and then on.

I pulled the battery and after it rebooted it locked on EDGE and work fine.

Anyone else seeing this sort of problem with the radio stack?
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Old 12-09-2005, 12:06 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Dude... it happens... occasionally. Not just with your 8700, but with all blackberry's... who's fault it is... who knows... people can blame RIM, but RW goes over every piece of code in the handheld OS before they release it onto their network as well...

cd.
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Old 12-12-2005, 12:24 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Dude... it doesn't "just happen". Again Friday, same place (northbound 404 near Stouffville rd) I lost EDGE and got left with gsm and no data. I had to pull the battery to get EDGE back.

I've used Blackberry's everyday for 5 years on this road, never have I lost the data signal in this location. Also, my fellow worker travels the same route at the same time and doesn't have this problem.

BTW, that total nonsense about "RW going over every piece of code before they release" doesn't give me any sense of confidence that there isn't a bug in there or my unit's radio isn't defective.

Thanks for your comments though.
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Old 12-12-2005, 12:53 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Absolutely it 'just happens'... I was in a friends basement last night with 4 blackberry's down there... 2 8700's, a 7290 and a 7280... the 7290 didn't get a broadcast message, sure enough it lost signal... big ol' X where the radio status normally is... the other 3 were fine... you tell me does the 7290 have a bad radio? or is it one of those flukes... really... find me someone who hasn't had their radio disconnect on a blackberry at some point.

And no it's not total nonsense about RW going over every piece of code... they most certainly do. If you ran a network the size of theirs, you would have your engineers doing the exact same thing for each new product/update that is going to be going onto your network.

Does all this mean that there isn't a bug... no... it just means that if there is a bug, nobody has found it. Could it be a problem with the BSC you were connected to? maybe... there are so many factors that you can't blame one thing... is it a defective radio chip? I doubt it.

I think that like most things... it may be a bug, but unless you can recreate the problem, there isn't going to be a whole lot you can do. You can get a new handheld and drive up the DVP as far as you want, if it doesn't happen, like it has up until this point, will you be satisfied that it was a defective radio? What about the next time it happens somewhere else? will the be a defective radio chip too?

cd.
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Old 12-12-2005, 01:02 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oncoryncus
Dude... it doesn't "just happen". Again Friday, same place (northbound 404 near Stouffville rd) I lost EDGE and got left with gsm and no data. I had to pull the battery to get EDGE back.

I've used Blackberry's everyday for 5 years on this road, never have I lost the data signal in this location. Also, my fellow worker travels the same route at the same time and doesn't have this problem.

BTW, that total nonsense about "RW going over every piece of code before they release" doesn't give me any sense of confidence that there isn't a bug in there or my unit's radio isn't defective.

Thanks for your comments though.
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Old 12-12-2005, 01:10 PM   #6 (permalink)
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My 7290 did it once, I wasn't sure what happened so I called cingular and they did somethingn ot sure what they did, but after they did that thing to told me to reset my 7290, and when I turned it back on it was fine. This was about a month or so ago.

I haven't had the problem since, even with my 8700c.
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Old 12-12-2005, 02:35 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oncoryncus
Yesterday, after reecieveing a call asking why I wasn't responding to my PINNED messages I discovered that the 8700 was only locked on a GSM signal. That explains the no data. I am in Toronto, so presumed EDGE was available. I could not get the 8700 to detect the EDGE by turning the radio off and then on.

I pulled the battery and after it rebooted it locked on EDGE and work fine.

Anyone else seeing this sort of problem with the radio stack?
Friday, 12/9 I had the same thing happen except that taking the battery out did not fix it. I tried walking out into the parking lot & removing the battery but that didn't work either. I was out from ~10am until around 2pm when I drove away from the building I was in.
Since I was in another carrier's lab facility and there was a ton of cellular test equipment around I just assumed that some piece of gear in there was causing the problem but I have nothing to back that theory with.
This was in Bellevue, wa
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Old 12-13-2005, 02:26 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corey@12mile
Absolutely it 'just happens'... I was in a friends basement last night with 4 blackberry's down there... 2 8700's, a 7290 and a 7280... the 7290 didn't get a broadcast message, sure enough it lost signal... big ol' X where the radio status normally is... the other 3 were fine... you tell me does the 7290 have a bad radio? or is it one of those flukes... really... find me someone who hasn't had their radio disconnect on a blackberry at some point.

And no it's not total nonsense about RW going over every piece of code... they most certainly do. If you ran a network the size of theirs, you would have your engineers doing the exact same thing for each new product/update that is going to be going onto your network.

Does all this mean that there isn't a bug... no... it just means that if there is a bug, nobody has found it. Could it be a problem with the BSC you were connected to? maybe... there are so many factors that you can't blame one thing... is it a defective radio chip? I doubt it.

I think that like most things... it may be a bug, but unless you can recreate the problem, there isn't going to be a whole lot you can do. You can get a new handheld and drive up the DVP as far as you want, if it doesn't happen, like it has up until this point, will you be satisfied that it was a defective radio? What about the next time it happens somewhere else? will the be a defective radio chip too?

cd.

cd, you're missing my point. I wasn't claiming that I was having a problem with service wandering in and out. My original posts stated that I lost EDGE service in the same locations twice and in order to regain EDGE service I had to do a pull-the-battery-hard-reset. I wasn't claiming that buddy had 3 more bars of signal than i did for 10 minutes or anything transient like that. I was simply asking if anyone had experienced a situation where the 8700 was not able to "upgrade" it's signal back to max (EDGE) after losing it for whatever reason. In my opinion, the device should do this, and the situation i experienced shouldn't "just happen". Also, my question was about the radio stack, not the hardware. The "stack" I reference being the software driving the hardware.

Further, I didn't state that I thought the RW guys combing their code for bugs was total nonsense. I am very sure they do. Is this reason for me to rule out the fact that they may have missed a code related bug? My point is, no.

I've done software development for 26 years now and the code that my shop releases is far more complex than the stuff Rogers is doing on the EDGE and the few thousand lines of Java on the BB. Let me assure you that code reviews at whatever level will not catch every deficiency, regardless of how careful you may feel they have been carried out. I wouldn't rule out either RW's network code, BB's radio or the hardware/firmware in the mix and just say, "dude, it happens".

Also, code or hardware problems are not always re-createable. So, just because it happens 2 out of 3 times doesn't make me believe it's a circumstantial gremlin.

Whew! I just wanted to know if anyone had to pull the battery to get EDGE back!

BTW, the 8700 worked great last night on my trip up the 404.
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Old 01-17-2006, 11:44 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oncoryncus
I was simply asking if anyone had experienced a situation where the 8700 was not able to "upgrade" it's signal back to max (EDGE) after losing it for whatever reason.
....

Whew! I just wanted to know if anyone had to pull the battery to get EDGE back!
I have to pull my battery to get EDGE back from GSM mode at least 5 times a day. This happens for me all over San Francisco, not just one or two spots. I am still in my trial period with Cingular and am planning on returning the phone as I don't see any fixes for this issue and tech support has been no help. I don't think that having to pull your battery multiple times in one day just to see if you have email is acceptable.

Last edited by kd78 : 01-17-2006 at 04:54 PM.
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Old 01-17-2006, 12:01 PM   #10 (permalink)
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If the 8700 has this issue I wouldn't be surprised at all.

Haven't seen this with my 8700 as of yet, I'm in NYC. This has happened numerous times using T-Mobile 7290 prior to the 4.0.2.49 firmware upgrade. I forget the firmware, we've updated all T-mobile users firmware for this reason. And I know its not EGDE, but everytime a user or myself would come out of a train station we would not get a signal, we had to remove/insert the battery.
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