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Old 02-08-2006, 05:46 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Exactly why DO you need a Blackberry Data Plan? Also Why you can't Tether!

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Any explanation you can offer as to why BBs require a BB plan versus other non-BB phones/plans? Some sort of security thing??

I had this question asked at the very bottom of another forum post, and I thought this was a good peice of info to get out to everyone.

Also, Before reading, this is the PRIMARY reason you cannot tether with the blackberry (use it as a modem) or why it costs extra when you do. It's because tethering doesn't access the Blackberry.net APN, it accesses wap.cingular/isp.cingular.

The reason is because data features are each associated with a APN or "Gateway" Phones are setup to access the wap.cingular "gateway" and are provisoned accordingly (with the MEdia Net plans) and Blackberry plans give access to the blackberry.net "gateway" which the BB's are programmed to access. BB's cannot get online without the blackberry.net apn because the PIN numbers access the internet just like the IMSI/IMEI of a regular phone, and PIN's are only recognized by the Blackberry.net gateway.

Hope this helps.
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Old 02-08-2006, 12:23 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Ahh, this is drowning in new posts, I really want people to read this...
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Old 02-08-2006, 04:19 PM   #3 (permalink)
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*Gathers a crowd* *passes the word* *Passes the knowledge on*

Very informative...now..if we could just educate all your call centers.
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Old 02-08-2006, 06:58 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CingularMK
Ahh, this is drowning in new posts, I really want people to read this...
Bumpity bump bump
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Old 02-08-2006, 10:40 PM   #5 (permalink)
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The Answer:
(Repeated many times but it's always good to repeat occasionally)

BlackBerry disables the carrier APN unless blackberry.net is enabled. You cannot use other APN's on a BlackBerry unless blackberry.net access is all paid for. (so you need a BlackBerry plan). This is just the way BlackBerry is designed.

This is to prevent competitor push email software from being installed on a BlackBerry (i.e. Goodlink, etc), among other reasons.
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Last edited by Mark Rejhon : 02-08-2006 at 10:42 PM.
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Old 02-09-2006, 04:38 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubicant
*Gathers a crowd* *passes the word* *Passes the knowledge on*

Very informative...now..if we could just educate all your call centers.
I wish...Trust me, I've been placed as a trainer for a short amount of time, I've educated who I can, and I've always been an advocate for correct information to my team and in fact, my entire call center.

I try. I really do. Unfortunately we have people being promoted to our department (Im an External Hire) purely out of seniority, and It bothers me, because these are 40+ year old people who have been working in Customer Care for 10 years and have no technical expertise. These are the people you are talking to when you call up Data support and get someone who always is saying "Oh let me look this up"

Trust me. If you ever talk to me, You'll be satisfied as long as you dont call up pissed off to start (the people who just call to complain and yell and never even care if the issue is resolved)

If you call up with a good attitude, and a feasible, able-to-troubleshoot issue. When you get off the phone with me you WILL be satisfied. I wish it was this way for the rest of my department. I pride myself on Customer Service, as does our entire company, It's just so hard when people call up with issues like "Uh..Im trying to tether my blackberry to my toaster...I want internet access on my toaster for only 3$ a month, please help..what? You cant help? Fxck you I hate cingular!!"

*sigh*
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Old 02-09-2006, 07:27 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Wirelessly posted (7280: BlackBerry8700/4.1.0 Profile/MIDP-2.0 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/102 UP.Link/5.1.2.9)

Ok, so tethering goes through wap.cingular/isp.cingular, which means you may need MediaNet. How much, then, for unlimited tethering?
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Old 02-09-2006, 01:38 PM   #8 (permalink)
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How does any of this affect third-party apps that use non-blackberry APNs? (i.e. BBtoday, BBweather, Google Local, Idokorro Mobile, Verichat, Berry 411, etc)?

I've been using all of these for the last couple of months with the wap.cingular APN and have incurred no additional charges.
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Old 02-09-2006, 04:37 PM   #9 (permalink)
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If you are paying for a BlackBerry plan (blackberry.net), then there is NO problem using other APN's on a BlackBerry. All the applications work fine.

But if you cancel just the blackberry.net APN, the BlackBerry automatically disables ALL APN's. That's why you can't use web, chat, email, VeriChat, etc, on a Pay-As-You-Go plan, or a non-BlackBerry plan, or an ordinary cellphone data plan that doesn't have the BlackBerry feature enabled. Those do not allow you to use data on a BlackBerry.

If email and other data works on your BlackBerry, this thread has absolutely no relevance to you -- just ignore this thread. You're already paying for a data plan.
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Old 02-10-2006, 07:40 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Rejhon
If you are paying for a BlackBerry plan (blackberry.net), then there is NO problem using other APN's on a BlackBerry. All the applications work fine.

But if you cancel just the blackberry.net APN, the BlackBerry automatically disables ALL APN's. That's why you can't use web, chat, email, VeriChat, etc, on a Pay-As-You-Go plan, or a non-BlackBerry plan, or an ordinary cellphone data plan that doesn't have the BlackBerry feature enabled. Those do not allow you to use data on a BlackBerry.

If email and other data works on your BlackBerry, this thread has absolutely no relevance to you -- just ignore this thread. You're already paying for a data plan.
OK, thanks. I am paying for the unlimited data plan, so I'll try and ignore this thread... for clarificaition, is modem tethering included in the unlimited data BB unlimited data plan as well?
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Old 02-10-2006, 08:41 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbay2002
OK, thanks. I am paying for the unlimited data plan, so I'll try and ignore this thread... for clarificaition, is modem tethering included in the unlimited data BB unlimited data plan as well?

Well, I don't know about everyone else, but this became just as clear as the Mississippi river. Taking verichat and tethering as a specific example - it is stated that it requires a working APN (I.E. wap.cingular) which becomes part of the MediaNet plan. Now, doesn't Cingular charge extra for the MediaNet services? I think this was the basis for some of these questions (including mine).

How about a simple answer to a simple question. If I use any program that requires access to the wap.cingular APN, is there a potential for me to be charged for services that are considered not part of the unlimited Blackberry plan???
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Old 02-11-2006, 11:13 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Rejhon
If you are paying for a BlackBerry plan (blackberry.net), then there is NO problem using other APN's on a BlackBerry. All the applications work fine.

But if you cancel just the blackberry.net APN, the BlackBerry automatically disables ALL APN's. That's why you can't use web, chat, email, VeriChat, etc, on a Pay-As-You-Go plan, or a non-BlackBerry plan, or an ordinary cellphone data plan that doesn't have the BlackBerry feature enabled. Those do not allow you to use data on a BlackBerry.

If email and other data works on your BlackBerry, this thread has absolutely no relevance to you -- just ignore this thread. You're already paying for a data plan.
This was straight retarded.

There ARE many problems, one main one being that you are charged an overage for using the wap.cingular APN. It has been found that some Blackberry Plans are provisioning with unlimited WAP access tagged on (I dont know how) but under no..no...NO circumstances is BB ever added with ISP (required for tethering)
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Old 02-11-2006, 11:15 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmaria
Well, I don't know about everyone else, but this became just as clear as the Mississippi river. Taking verichat and tethering as a specific example - it is stated that it requires a working APN (I.E. wap.cingular) which becomes part of the MediaNet plan. Now, doesn't Cingular charge extra for the MediaNet services? I think this was the basis for some of these questions (including mine).

How about a simple answer to a simple question. If I use any program that requires access to the wap.cingular APN, is there a potential for me to be charged for services that are considered not part of the unlimited Blackberry plan???
Yes, that potential is definately there, you are using data that is not a normal function of the blackberry, something that cingular doesn't support/expect. If you intend to use 3rd party apps, and get charged, then you have no way of fixing it.
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Old 02-12-2006, 08:51 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CingularMK
There ARE many problems, one main one being that you are charged an overage for using the wap.cingular APN. It has been found that some Blackberry Plans are provisioning with unlimited WAP access tagged on (I dont know how) but under no..no...NO circumstances is BB ever added with ISP (required for tethering)

OK, let me reiterate a question previously asked: is there a plan available for unlimited tethering, and if so, what is it called and how much does it cost?
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Old 02-13-2006, 07:39 AM   #15 (permalink)
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In spite of this thread, I still do not understand. How about simple answers to some simple questions based on the assumption that you are paying for a Blackberry unlimited plan and use a BES (which I assume is a fairly common setup):

(1) Will I ever be charged for data, and if so, under what circumstances? (I certainly feel, as I assume most BB users do, that saying $44/month for unlimited BB Data plan should entitle me to unlimited data, of all kinds).

(2) Can I tether without getting charged? How do I set it up on 7100g?

(3) I use Berry411 and PocketDay and have used Verichat. I have never been charged for data as far as I know, but Cingular bills are largely indecipherable, so it is not always clear. Is this as it should be, or should I actually be getting charged and am just lucky?

(4) I am going to Italy Friday for a week. I added the international BB plan for the extra $20. I assume I will have no additional data charges, correct?

And now one tough question:

(5) Why is all this so hard for Cingular to get straight? When I called about the international data plan and to ensure my phone would work and get some reduced rates (which are still $.99 per minute), I got different answers from every rep I talked to. It is absolutely maddening.

Knocka
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Old 02-13-2006, 08:10 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Default what if your carrier doesn't offer blackberry data?

This may be obvious, but I haven't been able to figure it out.

I'm in Kazakhstan and have a local GSM mobile carrier that offers me GPRS. My Outlook account is on a server in London and employees of the company I work for in London can use Blackberry.

So if I bought a phone compatible with BB Connect (e.g. Nokia 9300i) would I be able to use Blackberry here? Or does Blackberry require you to use a mobile phone network that has signed an agreement with it, i.e. pays it licensing fees or something?

I presume Blackberry needs to take a cut somewhere along the line, but if my company has a BES (not sure, but think they do), can't I just access that from ANY GPRS connection...?

Many thanks for any answers...
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Old 02-13-2006, 08:37 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CingularMK
This was straight retarded.

There ARE many problems, one main one being that you are charged an overage for using the wap.cingular APN. It has been found that some Blackberry Plans are provisioning with unlimited WAP access tagged on (I dont know how) but under no..no...NO circumstances is BB ever added with ISP (required for tethering)
Does Cingular know that you are trying to pass yourself off as a representative of their on this forum? Can you provide your first and last name along with a phone number? You have already proven that you don't know all the technical and administrative policies of Cingular through other posts. "This was straight retarded?" What are your credentials and background (other than that of being a customer service clerk).

<apologies to others -- the name-calling by this guy struck me wrong this AM>
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Old 02-13-2006, 04:49 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Confused: You need to have a device with a carrier that has a relationship with RIM. The possibility in your scenario is that you find a somewhat local carrier that does and pay roaming charges to use it locally.
Devices need to be provisioned on BlackBerry by the carrier (if the carrier doesn't have a relationship with RIM, they can't do this).
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Old 02-13-2006, 07:52 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knocka
In spite of this thread, I still do not understand. How about simple answers to some simple questions based on the assumption that you are paying for a Blackberry unlimited plan and use a BES (which I assume is a fairly common setup):

(1) Will I ever be charged for data, and if so, under what circumstances? (I certainly feel, as I assume most BB users do, that saying $44/month for unlimited BB Data plan should entitle me to unlimited data, of all kinds).

(2) Can I tether without getting charged? How do I set it up on 7100g?

(3) I use Berry411 and PocketDay and have used Verichat. I have never been charged for data as far as I know, but Cingular bills are largely indecipherable, so it is not always clear. Is this as it should be, or should I actually be getting charged and am just lucky?

(4) I am going to Italy Friday for a week. I added the international BB plan for the extra $20. I assume I will have no additional data charges, correct?

And now one tough question:

(5) Why is all this so hard for Cingular to get straight? When I called about the international data plan and to ensure my phone would work and get some reduced rates (which are still $.99 per minute), I got different answers from every rep I talked to. It is absolutely maddening.

Knocka
I can tell you that I just reviewd my Cingular bill, and I have many extra data charges tacked on. I have Verichat installed and use it to IM with my daughter. I got charged 2 cents every time a message came or went. With just a couple of days use, I had $5.48 in extra data. This is with the Blackberry Unlimited data plan.

I immediately deleted the wap.cingular APN and subscribed to BES service at www.exchangemymail.com so I can use their MDS service (not to mention the other benefits of a BES). I had to have some tech support help to get it up and running but the guys there were great.

I hate paying the extra $20 per month, but Cingular reminds me of hospital bills in this new age. Instead od $500 per day of stay, its $500 plus $3 for each aspirin, $6 for a bandage, $7 for a piece of tape.....
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Old 02-13-2006, 10:22 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sfischer
Confused: You need to have a device with a carrier that has a relationship with RIM. The possibility in your scenario is that you find a somewhat local carrier that does and pay roaming charges to use it locally.
Devices need to be provisioned on BlackBerry by the carrier (if the carrier doesn't have a relationship with RIM, they can't do this).
thanks, sfischer. guess it's not right for me then. does seem a bit restrictive (since there are plenty of other models under which RIM could take a cut for a user's wireless use) but hey...
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