BlackBerry Forums Support Community               

Closed Thread
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 02-10-2006, 03:01 PM   #1 (permalink)
Knows Where the Search Button Is
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Model: 8310
Carrier: AT&T
Posts: 16
Post Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Ghosts in my son's room...

Please Login to Remove!

For some time now my 5 year old son has been complaining about "popping" noises in his room keeping him from sleeping. Being the impatient parent that I am I dismissed it as another one of his excuses to keep from going to sleep.

Last night my 2 year old daughter woke up with nightmares so my wife and I brought heroverto our bed... She tends to move around a lot so I went into my Son's room to sleep (he has a Queen size bed but actually prefers to sleep on the floor... go figure).

Well I heard this noise that he'd been talking about... It was actually the alarm clock with the familir buzz, snap, crackle and pop that any piece of electronics with a small speaker (PC, Speakerphone...) makes when my 7100G is nearby. Only inthis case, my 7100G was plugged into my PC on another room~ ~20 feet away with a wall in between!!!

Ever since I got the 7100G I've been annoyed at this buzz/noise. Every phone at wok does this (Rolm, Polycomm...). I can't beleve the 7100G actually passes FCC EMC requirements... Is it a GSM/TDMA (this is my first GSM phone) behavior? Or is it a GPRS behavior? Isit better with EDGE?
Offline  
Old 02-10-2006, 03:21 PM   #2 (permalink)
Retired BlackBerryForums.com Moderator
 
d_fisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Columbus, OH
Model: 9700
OS: SID 6.7
Carrier: AT&T
Posts: 4,455
Post Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post
Default

Welcome to the world of GSM/GRPS/EDGE phones. The better the phone reception, the worse the interference.
__________________
Doug

Remember, please try searching first!

Need a screenshot? ... Like JavaLoader?
Try using BBscreen .....Use JL_Cmder!
or BBScreenShooter!

[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Offline  
Old 02-11-2006, 01:41 AM   #3 (permalink)
Thumbs Must Hurt
 
zx6racer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: CT
Model: 9930
PIN: 330E7451
Carrier: Verizon AT&T
Posts: 90
Post Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

Same thing on IDEN.
__________________
www.twitter.com/aprilialac
Offline  
Old 02-11-2006, 09:42 AM   #4 (permalink)
Talking BlackBerry Encyclopedia
 
fliedlice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Orlando
Model: 8700G
Carrier: T-Mobile
Posts: 297
Post Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

ive never had it happen that far from a speaker...in fact mine's sitting on the desk about an inch from my speaker and it didnt happen a few minutes ago when my phone rang
__________________
Searching for a new blackberry......I just cant stay away.
Offline  
Old 02-11-2006, 11:37 AM   #5 (permalink)
Knows Where the Search Button Is
 
scaredpoet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: NJ
Model: iPhon
Carrier: AT&T
Posts: 47
Post Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

It largely depends on the construction of the device receiving the interference. Well shielded electronics will require the phone to be at REALLY close range before you start hearing buzzes and pops. On the other hand, cheap unshielded electronics could be very sensitive.

The phone also has something to do with it as well. Some phones, particularly PDA phones it seems, just seem to cause the most interference in my experience. I once had to return a Treo 650 I was trying out because there was nothing I could to mitigate the DEAFENING noise that sputtered from my computer speakers when it transmitted. Whereas a friend's RAZR didn't cause nearly as loud an amount of interference.

At any rate, I have found that CDMA handsets tend to be "friendlier" to electronics in that they don't cause the loud buzzes and crackles. Every once in a while, my bb7103e might cause some nearby speakrs to faintly pop when it transmits, but I've found my speakers much quieter since.

I would speculate that once GSM networks finally migrate to UMTS (and hopefully Blackberries will migrate with them) this will be less of a problem. UMTS usues a similar spread spectrum tranmission technqiue as CDMA, so the interference pattern hopefully won't be as raucous.

Last edited by scaredpoet : 02-11-2006 at 11:39 AM.
Offline  
Old 02-12-2006, 04:03 AM   #6 (permalink)
Thumbs Must Hurt
 
pcdebb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: FL
Model: 8530
Carrier: Sprint
Posts: 80
Post Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

any nextel phone i've had makes alot of interference. I have to move the phone away from my computer monitor, i can tell each time it's sending/receiving data because of the noise. If i'm on the phone its worse, and it even makes my tv flip when i'm in my bedroom. never did that with my sprint phone tho.
Offline  
Old 02-12-2006, 08:06 AM   #7 (permalink)
Thumbs Must Hurt
 
Blexcroid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Houston
Model: 9000
Carrier: of H1N1 and other virii
Posts: 63
Post Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

What you are hearing is your service provider "pinging" your phone to determine your location (this has been required since about 2000 for 911 emergencies call in from a cell). Your phone beacons back the information and this RF signal is probably the culprit. Now, there are three ways this signal/interference can reach your sons radio: electrical, airborne, and a combination of both.
1. Since your computer likely was plugged into some sort of power strip, the RF may have been picked up by the wire from the power strip to the wall outlet and into your house hold wiring (Romex). Depending upon the quality of the powerstrip and how well insulated it is will affect this. The cheaper $10 surge strips are most prone.
2. The RF also may be passing directly through the wall into the Romex wiring. If your computer table is proximal to a wall outlet or the piece of Romex in the wall, the RF sees this nice piece of wire as an "antenna" and transmits the RF through the wiring. First check to see if your computer and the wall outlet your son's radio is plugged into are on the same electrical circuit (breaker/fuse). If so, that makes it a high probability of the cause. If not, then keep his radio where it is and use an extension cord to plug it in from another circuit. Now call your BB from another phone (preferably landline) while it is plugged into the computer. If you hear the same buzz, unplug your BB and take it into a distant room and call again. If the noise persists, it is likely airborne RF causing it. If it goes away, purchase a small RF filter for your son's radio that plugs into the socket for your son's clock-radio.
3. If you found that the noise persisted, then the BB is probably transmitting the RF through the wall. Whist normally "distance is your friend" the interference can be reduced or eliminated by building a small Faraday cage to place your phone in when it is charging at night. Take a shoebox (or other small box) and line it (or wrap it) with foil, including the lid. Place your BB in there and close the box (you will need to make a SMALL hole for your synch/power cable to enter). Place your phone in the box and plug it in to your computer as usual. Now try calling your BB. Depending on the strength of your provider's signal, your phone may not even ring. If it does ring, have someone listening for the noise in your son's room. No buzz, problem solved.
One final note, the "ultimate" in RF protection for this would be a small lead-lined bag. These are avaiable at most photogaphic stores for placing film in when travelling. If the interference persists even using these techniques, then either you have a BB that is emitting WAY too much RF or (as Scaredpoet said) your son has a very cheap clock-radio and deserves a newer one with better RF shielding.
Sorry for the electronics exercise, but hope this helps diagnose the issue! 8)

Last edited by Blexcroid : 02-12-2006 at 08:10 AM.
Offline  
Old 02-13-2006, 11:33 AM   #8 (permalink)
Knows Where the Search Button Is
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Model: 8310
Carrier: AT&T
Posts: 16
Post Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blexcroid
What you are hearing is your service provider "pinging" your phone to determine your location (this has been required since about 2000 for 911 emergencies call in from a cell). Your phone beacons back the information and this RF signal is probably the culprit. Now, there are three ways this signal/interference can reach your sons radio: electrical, airborne, and a combination of both.
1. Since your computer likely was plugged into some sort of power strip, the RF may have been picked up by the wire from the power strip to the wall outlet and into your house hold wiring (Romex). Depending upon the quality of the powerstrip and how well insulated it is will affect this. The cheaper $10 surge strips are most prone.
2. The RF also may be passing directly through the wall into the Romex wiring. If your computer table is proximal to a wall outlet or the piece of Romex in the wall, the RF sees this nice piece of wire as an "antenna" and transmits the RF through the wiring. First check to see if your computer and the wall outlet your son's radio is plugged into are on the same electrical circuit (breaker/fuse). If so, that makes it a high probability of the cause. If not, then keep his radio where it is and use an extension cord to plug it in from another circuit. Now call your BB from another phone (preferably landline) while it is plugged into the computer. If you hear the same buzz, unplug your BB and take it into a distant room and call again. If the noise persists, it is likely airborne RF causing it. If it goes away, purchase a small RF filter for your son's radio that plugs into the socket for your son's clock-radio.
3. If you found that the noise persisted, then the BB is probably transmitting the RF through the wall. Whist normally "distance is your friend" the interference can be reduced or eliminated by building a small Faraday cage to place your phone in when it is charging at night. Take a shoebox (or other small box) and line it (or wrap it) with foil, including the lid. Place your BB in there and close the box (you will need to make a SMALL hole for your synch/power cable to enter). Place your phone in the box and plug it in to your computer as usual. Now try calling your BB. Depending on the strength of your provider's signal, your phone may not even ring. If it does ring, have someone listening for the noise in your son's room. No buzz, problem solved.
One final note, the "ultimate" in RF protection for this would be a small lead-lined bag. These are avaiable at most photogaphic stores for placing film in when travelling. If the interference persists even using these techniques, then either you have a BB that is emitting WAY too much RF or (as Scaredpoet said) your son has a very cheap clock-radio and deserves a newer one with better RF shielding.
Sorry for the electronics exercise, but hope this helps diagnose the issue! 8)
So far as an alarm clock.. What's a reasonable "not cheap" clock for a child's room? Almost all of these have a molded plastic housing. Even the $100+ ones... The external antenna probably doesn't help either.

Not to feed the flames of a holy war but I'm convinced more than ever that CDMA is better technology even though GSM may have the better implementation. I like the Cingular service and worldwide roaming capability and can't say that I would NOT have gone with the 7100G still had I known about this issue. Still... it may be annoying enough to consider it a deal breaker for some...
Offline  
Old 02-13-2006, 11:58 AM   #9 (permalink)
BlackBerry Extraordinaire
 
CanuckBB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: YYZ
Model: 9900
Carrier: Rogers
Posts: 1,183
Post Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Default

Keep in mind that it's not so much the technology as much as the frequency. And CDMA means NA roaming only. The rest of the world uses GSM.
Offline  
Old 02-16-2006, 10:13 AM   #10 (permalink)
ajg
Thumbs Must Hurt
 
ajg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Chicago
Model: M600i
Carrier: T-Mobile
Posts: 109
Post Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CanuckBB
Keep in mind that it's not so much the technology as much as the frequency. And CDMA means NA roaming only. The rest of the world uses GSM.
Although I think both GSM and CDMA both have their advantages, only being able to use CDMA in North America is not correct. There are CDMA providers on every continent except Antarctica. There are in fact 89 countries around the world who use CDMA. That said, it is true, however, that not all of these contries are "roamable" as a few use 400MHz, 2100MHz, or a WCDMA system. But I just like to bring up the fact that CDMA isn't a NA technology. ON the other hand, if roaming ALL over the world is important, then I would say GSM is the way to go. Many more network use it.

CDMA: www.cdg.com
__________________
-A
Offline  
Old 02-16-2006, 10:48 AM   #11 (permalink)
Knows Where the Search Button Is
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: New Haven, CT
Model: 7100v
Posts: 24
Post Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ajg
That said, it is true, however, that not all of these contries are "roamable" as a few use 400MHz, 2100MHz, or a WCDMA system.
Sure WCDMA is related to CDMA, but as far as I know the only wireless technologies to use it are UMTS and FOMA - I don't think any CDMA2000 has been implemented over WCDMA. CDMA and WCDMA are essentially competing technologies since 3G CDMA is CDMA2000 1xEV-DO over CDMA, and GSM's 3G successor is UMTS over WCDMA.
Offline  
Old 02-25-2006, 07:08 AM   #12 (permalink)
Thumbs Must Hurt
 
Blexcroid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Houston
Model: 9000
Carrier: of H1N1 and other virii
Posts: 63
Post Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by leejp
So far as an alarm clock.. What's a reasonable "not cheap" clock for a child's room? Almost all of these have a molded plastic housing. Even the $100+ ones... The external antenna probably doesn't help either.
It's not that the clock radio is made of plastic, but the electronics within it. Many newer clock radios have circuitry built in to avoid picking up spurious emissions like these from cell hones and other electronics we have. The $10.99 ones probably dont, but mid-range ones likely do. Personally, I would verify that the clock radio is picking up the signal through the air vs the electric lines in your home. Once you've determined that it is picking up the signal via air transmission, I would look to shield the phone from transmitting to the radio. It's a lot cheaper to take a shoebox and wrap it in foil than buy a $100 clock radio. One other option is to find a small box that the radio will fit in and cut the front off of it. Wrap the box in foil, and place the clock radio in it (numbers facing out, of course). That may work as long as the clock/opening can face AWAY from the source of the RF (the phone).
BTW - if your wife objects to the foil-covered box, as her to fin a cloth covered box and line the inside with the foil. Same thing and less objectionable to the wife.
Offline  
Old 03-11-2006, 08:52 AM   #13 (permalink)
Talking BlackBerry Encyclopedia
 
bobhammer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hong Kong
Model: Curve
Carrier: CSL
Posts: 216
Post Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

I have the same experiences....when I am sending emails or using instant messenger...my speakers keep buzzing(i put my bb just next to the speakers)....it is so annoying.

btw..I live in Hong Kong...so I guess I would not be included in the "What you are hearing is your service provider "pinging" your phone to determine your location (this has been required since about 2000 for 911 emergencies call in from a cell). "
__________________
My Pin
25162C9C
Yahoo:bobhammer3
Gtalk:bobhammer
BB model:8700r, The Pearl(water damage), Curve
Offline  
Closed Thread


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On





Copyright 2004-2014 BlackBerryForums.com.
The names RIM and BlackBerry are registered Trademarks of BlackBerry Inc.