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Old 02-23-2007, 09:39 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Angry Random Resets - 8800 (and 8100)

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I'm looking for some pointers on where to go with this problem.

Over the past 1-2 weeks, I have had 3 devices - my 8100 (BES), my son's 8100 (BIS), and my new 8800 (BES) experience random soft and hard resets. What happens is at (seemingly) random intervals the device screen will go blank and the red LED comes on (indicating a reset). This seems to occur during periods of high network activity. Fetching mail, chatting, etc. Does not occur with the phone.

In addition, if I travel to another city, the problem seems to go away. I did this last weekend. So I'm wondering if it's related to any of the recent network upgrades done in the Rochester, MN area by Cingular. They recently added HSPDA access.

I don't believe the problem is device or software (3rd-party) related because:

1) It's happening on 3 different devices
2) It's happening on my son's 8100, which has no 3rd-party apps loaded, just stock Cingular BIS access.

Here is a section of the log file from the device (my brand new 8800) Reads from the bottom up, during the last soft reset event:

a net.rim.bluetooth - SM3 - 2/23 07:32:51
a net.rim.bluetooth - ON - 2/23 07:32:51
a net.rim.otasync - DN+ - 2/23 07:32:51
a net.rim.otasync - AG,+SM,USID=1202 - 2/23 07:32:51
a net.rim.gme - INcn - 2/23 07:32:51
a UI - GS+Q2 4a5881a9net.rim.device.apps.internal.security.Secu rityApp$SecurityStatusScreen - 2/23 07:32:51
a UI - GS+Q1 f95b40f4net.rim.device.internal.ui.component.Simpl eChoiceDialog - 2/23 07:32:50
a System - OnOffMgr: powerUp - 2/23 07:32:49
a System - POWER_UP - 2/23 07:32:49
a net.rim.usb.pwd - CbDs - 2/23 07:32:47
a System - VM:-RRnet_rim_app_manager RX=18.8M,RF=19.1M,FF=24.5M,OF=194.1K,OS=5.6M,ON=61 .8K,OR=0,FR=0,TR=0,RR=0,IS=5.3K RA=6.9M,RS=3M,RN=25.8K TA=372.3K,TS=372K,TN=4.2K PA=2.2M,PS=2.2M,PN=15.3K R0=3.2M,2=10K,3=49K,7=45.1K,8=3K,9=3.2M,10=8.2K,11 =26.8K,12=169.7K,13=15K,15=146.1K - 2/23 07:32:47
a System - VM:+RRnet_rim_app_manager RX=18.8M,RF=18.8M,FF=24.8M,OF=194.1K,OS=5.6M,ON=61 .8K,OR=0,FR=0,TR=0,RR=0,IS=5.3K RA=7.2M,RS=3.4M,RN=30.1K TA=0,TS=0,TN=0 PA=2.2M,PS=2.2M,PN=15.3K R0=3.2M,2=10K,3=49K,7=45.1K,8=3K,9=3.5M,10=8.2K,11 =26.8K,12=169.7K,13=15K,15=146.1K - 2/23 07:32:44
a System - -GCt=407,b=0,r=0,g=2,u=0,c=1 - 2/23 07:32:43
a System - VM:-GCnet_rim_app_manager RX=12.7M,RF=18.8M,FF=24.8M,OF=194.2K,OS=5.6M,ON=61 .7K,OR=0,FR=0,TR=0,RR=0,IS=5.3K RA=7.2M,RS=3.3M,RN=30K TA=0,TS=0,TN=0 PA=2.2M,PS=2.2M,PN=15.3K R0=3.2M,2=10K,3=49K,7=45.1K,8=3K,9=3.5M,10=8.2K,11 =26.7K,12=169.7K,13=15K,15=146.1K - 2/23 07:32:43
a PTT - level=0 KnDBAPI knDBGetSubscriberInfo Subscriber info is still not available - 2/23 07:32:38
a PTT - level=0 KnAppManager knAppInit() Appinit successfully .. - 2/23 07:32:37
a PTT - level=0 KnDBAPI knDBGetSubscriberInfo Subscriber info is still not available - 2/23 07:32:37
a PTT - level=0 KnJCDEAppManager knFillHashGroupIds No groups found to fill hashgroup ids - 2/23 07:32:37
a PTT - level=2 KnDBGroupAPI knDBGetGroupInfoVector Database problem:java.io.EOFException - 2/23 07:32:37
a net.rim.appdelivery - Rtrn - 2/23 07:32:37
a net.rim.gme - INcn - 2/23 07:32:37
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Old 02-23-2007, 09:43 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Could be something bad with the tower in the area.
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Old 02-27-2007, 10:05 AM   #3 (permalink)
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More info: I have an open issue with Cingular and RIM on this. Definitely related to interaction between the BB and something in the Cingular Network. Is suspect HSPDA upgrades here my have triggered it.

I've had occur at both times, stationary and while in a vehicle. Here's my best recollection of the timing and locations:

All of this in the Rochester, MN area. My address is XXXX, 55901

Prior to 2/14/07 (+/- 2 days): No occurrence ever across multiple BB devices (8700, 8100)
After 2/14: Random resets on my 8100 (BES Connected) and My Son's 8100 (BIS Connected)
2/16-2/18 - Travel to Las Vegas, NV. No problems at all on my 8100
2/18: Return to Rochester, problems occur (8100)
2/19: Travel to Minneapolis, MN (downtown). No problems that I recall (8100)
2/20: Return to Rochester, MN. Pickup 8800. Install 8800 late on 2/20. Problems start to occur (resets)

Since then both my 8800 and my son's 8100 have had problems. Will occur at least 5 times/day. Additional info:

The problem will occur any place in the Rochester area, but WILL NOT occur if I am located inside the IBM Rochester Facility (in-building repeater coverage)
Occurs only if the device is accessing the network - never occurs if I'm on the phone. So email, web, etc - will cause it to occur.
I have reloaded/wiped the device multiple times - no change
I have removed all 3rd party apps from the phone - no change
I removed my SD card - no change
The SIM is fairly recent (2-3 months old?)
Phone is at the latest code level provided by Cingular
I have 5 bar EDGE coverage in building and 4-5 bar EDGE coverage at my home location.n the device and the network.
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Old 02-27-2007, 10:48 AM   #4 (permalink)
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This "reboot" has happened to me 4 times. Three times when I tried to make a phone call with my Jawbone headset on or making a call from my call log. And once when I took it out of my holster at home. Because I never read that anyone else was having this issue, I just thought it must be a coincedence. I too, would like to know what causing this to happen. I am in the greater Houston area and as far as I know had at least 3 bars when it went into a boot mode.
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Old 02-27-2007, 10:56 AM   #5 (permalink)
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This is actually good news! I finally have some vindication that it's not just me! If you're willing to share more info about your location, etc with me, please email me. I would appreciate feeding this information to Cingular and RIM. Looking for Times and locations of occrance and you device PIN.
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Old 02-27-2007, 11:14 AM   #6 (permalink)
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I beleive here in Charlotte we do have that. I was out on the coast of NC last weekend, there is nothing out that way and don't think they have that technology yet and it did it there also.
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Old 02-27-2007, 11:27 AM   #7 (permalink)
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OK, thanks. The HSPDA thing might be a red-herring. So I would appreciate it if you could continue to watch for this. Looking for resets that seem to occur without warning.

Keep an eye out for "soft" resets. They can occur without you really knowing it. This means that the device will go thru a reset sequence of 3-5 seconds, drop network coverage, but you end up on the same screen or application you had before - in other words nothing really crashes. So you can have it in the holster, have it soft reset, and you don't know it.

Best way to check this is from the home screen hold down the "Alt" key and press "EACE". This will bring up a diag screen with the time from last reboot.

So check it at the start of the day, then later in the day and see if the count has reset.
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Old 02-27-2007, 11:33 AM   #8 (permalink)
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HSDPA isn't in Charlotte (yet).

I've never heard of any circumstance where the network caused hardware to completely reset itself (simulating a battery-pull), which is what I think oester is describing.
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Old 02-27-2007, 11:37 AM   #9 (permalink)
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I thought I heard Charlotte did have HSDPA, oh well, doesn't affect me at all.
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Old 02-27-2007, 11:59 AM   #10 (permalink)
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EVDO, yes, but not HSDPA. Many peculiar effects to devices when EVDO was being tested immediately prior to its launch (especially rapid battery drain), but still never heard of complete disconnects with a device. Still, since the 8800 isn't HSDPA-capable, it shouldn't be effected.

Very odd that devices on both BES and those that are not are behaving like this.

Oester - Did Cingular get (or even ask for) a copy of your log file?
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Old 02-27-2007, 12:05 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Yep, I've sent multiple event logs to RIM. So far, not very useful. Basically the device is humming along just fine, and then it resets. I haven't been impressed with their level 1 support. RIM thinks it's Cingular, and Cingular thinks it's RIM. In my mind, no matter what the network throws at it, it shouldn't reset.

I do have some of the Cingular network folks digging around (back channels via our account rep) No luck so far.

My suspicion is that there are more of these resets going on than folks realize, especially the "soft" ones that just look for all the world like a loss of network activity, unless you check your uptime.
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Old 02-27-2007, 12:13 PM   #12 (permalink)
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I'll give mine a couple days to build a controlled history and check it then.
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Old 03-18-2007, 04:50 PM   #13 (permalink)
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I have the identical problem on an 8700c. Random resets - the red light comes on, screen goes pitch dark, and the hourglass comes up in a few moments. It seems to go away for a while (after a battery/hard reboot) and come up after a few days- one week. Once it happens it can recur several times in an hour, or once or twice a day. Very annoying. Has anyone figured anything out?
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Old 03-19-2007, 09:31 AM   #14 (permalink)
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having the exact same problem on my new 8800. Have had it for about a month now and at its peak it seems to do hard and soft resets about 6 times a day. It is really frustrating. Cingular is clueless as to what is going on . The only thing they can offer is to try and replace the unit. Very dissapointed so far. My 8700 still works flawlessly. I dont get it .
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Old 03-19-2007, 09:48 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Sorry, I dropped this thread :( I did get my problem solved, after escalating to the Cingular account rep for IBM. Cingular did *something* to fix it. Shortly after I had them investigate with the local network team, the problem went away. I haven't been able to get them to admin what happened, or what fixed it. I will do some more follow-up and let you know if I get information.

Don't let them tell you it's a device problem, it's not.
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