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Old 05-09-2007, 04:56 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default 8800 and 8830 have different CPUs?

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I did a search and did not see anything on this topic. In researching the 8800 and 8300 series it appears that the 8800 (Cingular/T-Mo etc.) have the Xscale CPU whereas the 8830 hybrid (VZW/Sprint etc.) have a Qualcomm MSM6550 CPU. Is this true?

If yes, I was wondering if the change in CPU would impact the performance of the unit as some on this forum have suggested the 8800 to be a little slow?

The 8300 CPU is still not confirmed right?

Thoughts appreciated.

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Old 05-09-2007, 05:50 PM   #2 (permalink)
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My 8800 has never been slow, or sluggish. What are you talking about?
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Old 05-09-2007, 06:03 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Read this thread:

http://www.blackberryforums.com/gene...processor.html
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Old 05-09-2007, 06:17 PM   #4 (permalink)
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My 8800 is chop, chop..... No issues here either...
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Old 05-09-2007, 06:31 PM   #5 (permalink)
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8300 CPU is the same XScale as 7130, 8700, and 8800. CDMA devices never use the same CPU as their GSM counter part. I assume this is for performance reasons
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Old 05-09-2007, 06:43 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Perfect Storm View Post
CDMA devices never use the same CPU as their GSM counter part. I assume this is for performance reasons
The 8830 is both CDMA and GSM.

So will it be faster on CDMA?
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Old 05-09-2007, 07:16 PM   #7 (permalink)
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The device is primarily CDMA though. Only really testing will show for sure.
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Old 05-09-2007, 07:27 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Megahertz and Gigahertz can only be compared within the same family of processors as each has its own design. Best way to compare is to have them side by side or do some benchmarks. Like the Intel/AMD or even Intel Pentium 4 line up vs Intel Dual Core. Intel P4 was 3ghz + Intel Dual Cores that are of a much lower clock freq smoke it.
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Old 05-09-2007, 08:42 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhapsodyrcks View Post
Megahertz and Gigahertz can only be compared within the same family of processors as each has its own design. Best way to compare is to have them side by side or do some benchmarks. Like the Intel/AMD or even Intel Pentium 4 line up vs Intel Dual Core. Intel P4 was 3ghz + Intel Dual Cores that are of a much lower clock freq smoke it.
While you're right about this, it becomes far more complicated when wireless radios are entered into the picture.

For instance an XScale processor may be excellent on a GSM device, but pop it in a CDMA one and it might not keep up.
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Old 05-10-2007, 11:57 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Just played with 1 here at wes. The Verizon guy said the Qualcom cpu is slower then the Intel in the 8800 but the EVDO is faster of coarse. It was not as snappy as my 8800. Amazing all the people that have 8830s and 8300s around here.
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Old 05-10-2007, 06:39 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Wirelessly posted (BlackBerry7130e/4.1.0 Profile/MIDP-2.0 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/105)

I went to read about the qualcom processor on their site and understood it to say that the CDMA technology was built into the chipset. Is that a possible reason? It also mentioned the GPS Transever being built in, or at least that's what I understood. This particular chipset mentioned CDMA and GSM, so that's the origin of my understanding.
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Old 05-10-2007, 09:10 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atuarre View Post
My 8800 has never been slow, or sluggish. What are you talking about?
I have the 8800c. The responsiveness of the GUI has definitely been "sluggish" from day 1. 'sluggish' is in quotes because it's not horrible, it's just not as snappy as it should be, and enough to be a minor annoyance and reminder that it's the 1 thing I am disappointed with. If other's are not experiencing this then I sure would like to know what I can do to fix this.
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Old 05-11-2007, 10:10 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woodi68 View Post
Wirelessly posted (BlackBerry7130e/4.1.0 Profile/MIDP-2.0 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/105)

I went to read about the qualcom processor on their site and understood it to say that the CDMA technology was built into the chipset. Is that a possible reason? It also mentioned the GPS Transever being built in, or at least that's what I understood. This particular chipset mentioned CDMA and GSM, so that's the origin of my understanding.
Yes. Qualcomm owns CDMA. The Qualcomm chip is also thicker than the GSM chips which is one of the reasons CDMA phones are usually thicker than the GSM versions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by http://www.cellular.co.za/cdma.htm
QUALCOMM owns a substantial portfolio of CDMA patents, including many ``essential'' patents that are necessary for the deployment of any proposed 3G CDMA system, such as Multi-Carrier, Direct Spread, and another system referred to as TD-SCDMA.

QUALCOMM has now granted royalty bearing licenses to more than 75 manufacturers for CDMA and, as part of these licenses, has transferred technology and know-how in assisting these companies to develop and deploy CDMA products.

A significant number of these companies' licenses cover third-generation applications, including WCDMA, 1x and High Data Rate (HDR). Under terms of QUALCOMM's existing 3G licensing agreements, a licensee will pay the same royalty to QUALCOMM for 3G systems, including WCDMA, TD-SCDMA and 1x, as that licensee pays QUALCOMM for today's CDMA infrastructure, phones and test equipment.
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Old 05-11-2007, 10:30 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by birddog View Post
The 8830 is both CDMA and GSM.

So will it be faster on CDMA?
No its not. The 8800 is GSM, the 8830 is CDMA. Same model family, different phone.
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Old 05-11-2007, 01:13 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArgonNJ View Post
No its not. The 8800 is GSM, the 8830 is CDMA. Same model family, different phone.

its called the "world edition" because it is in fact both cdma and gsm..
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Old 05-11-2007, 03:50 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by midknight View Post
its called the "world edition" because it is in fact both cdma and gsm..
It seems that it has both but Sprint will fix it to use CDMA when in their American network areas, and allow GSM when roaming/abroad. The idea is that you can buy service cheaply from a foreign service provider on GSM.

Anyone know if Verizon will allow you to choose your GSM provider or force you to use a Vodaphone "partner" network?

The big advantage as far as I can see of using CDMA is EV-DO for data as opposed to EDGE, which I believe is currently the only option on GSM networks given the lack of 3G support in the 8xxx series so far.
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Old 05-11-2007, 04:38 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AuntyDan View Post
Anyone know if Verizon will allow you to choose your GSM provider or force you to use a Vodaphone "partner" network?
From everything I've heard, VZW's GSM side will be locked to their roaming partner(s).
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Old 05-11-2007, 04:44 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AuntyDan View Post
It seems that it has both but Sprint will fix it to use CDMA when in their American network areas, and allow GSM when roaming/abroad. The idea is that you can buy service cheaply from a foreign service provider on GSM.

Anyone know if Verizon will allow you to choose your GSM provider or force you to use a Vodaphone "partner" network?

The big advantage as far as I can see of using CDMA is EV-DO for data as opposed to EDGE, which I believe is currently the only option on GSM networks given the lack of 3G support in the 8xxx series so far.
My sources tell me that the VZW version will be locked to Vodaphone on GSM. However, that doesn't mean that some industrious individual might not come up with a way to generate unlock codes for a sufficient sum of money as has happened on numerous other GSM devices that start their lives as carrier-locked.

Since the radio in the 8830 doesn't support the North American GSM frequencies, you're going to be CDMA only in NA, and the device will prefer (e.g., default) to CDMA networks (does anybody know if there's any place in the world that has both CDMA and "foreign" GSM such that the 8830 might be stuck deciding which one to use?). Also, I believe that overseas data will be limited to GPRS, not EDGE (again, a limitation of the chipset, not of the carrier).

I'm sort of torn here. I'm carrying a Cingular 8800 right now, still w/in 30 days. It's only EDGE, whereas the 8830 would be EVDO. However, the 8800 has a considerably faster processor. Even if this doesn't make a difference for web browsing speeds, data downloads, etc., it seems like it would as far as executing the OS, such that one can anticipate that the 8830 will be slower than the 8800 from the get go. Does anybody know where the performance bottleneck on these devices is?
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Old 05-11-2007, 05:54 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BBDummy View Post
I'm sort of torn here. I'm carrying a Cingular 8800 right now, still w/in 30 days. It's only EDGE, whereas the 8830 would be EVDO.
Me too. I'm trying to decide on a new purchase right now. I need fast Internet so I'm torn between an 8703e from Sprint now or waiting until July for the 8830. CPU speed differences had not occured to me before, so now I'd have to wait for the 8830 to launch for comparative testing to be done to be sure.

Last edited by AuntyDan : 05-11-2007 at 05:56 PM.
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Old 05-11-2007, 06:03 PM   #20 (permalink)
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For a quick summary of misunderstood information in this thread:
1) RIM's devices only use the baseband processor for the entire OS and apps, which is why the entire solution is proprietary (of course the apps are all J2ME). This is *much* different than other smartphones which have both a baseband processor for the cellular radio stack and an applications processor to run your WinMo OS. This is also why you can run the entire BB JVM as an application inside WinMo but not vice-versa, because the RIM JVM is very lightweight compared to the WinMo OS.
2) Given that, all CDMA products (and the 8707) are using a Qualcomm chipset incorporating an ARM processor to run the JVM and apps, whereas all EDGE products are based around the Intel (now Marvel) XScale chipset. Compare this to a Treo, which is using the same PXA270 processor as the apps core for both their GSM (Freescale / TI radio) and CDMA (Qualcomm radio) products. Performance wise, the current generation of processors are pretty much on par - the 8703 and 8700 both perform more or less "the same" from a UI standpoint. Go back to the 7750/7780 days though and you can see a massive difference in performance.
3) Historically, RIM's products like the 71xx series were "fatter" for the CDMA version not because the IC's are "thicker" but because there is simply more of them. Compare the current Qualcomm radio solution to any current TI, Freescale, Phillips, or other EDGE radio solution and the PCB area required is almost 200% Qualcomm *lags* behind other radio solutions in terms of packaging technologies for a very simple reason: they have no competition in their market, so no incentive to improve.
4) performance-wise, the current generation of devices is pretty apples-to-apples. The frequency of the processor is pretty much a useless indicator, as the amount of time the processor is running the JVM versus the radio code will determine how quickly your actual application will run. There were some java benchmarking tools floating around for BB that said the processor of the 8700 was "200 MHz", when the official spec is 312MHz - now it could be that the program was crap, or it could be that, looking only from the JVM's perspective, they only get 2/3rds of the available cycles the processor has to use, with the radio code taking up the other 1/3rd.

in conclusion, I'd say choose your BB based on the features of the product you want, not the listed speed of the processor, as ultimately it won't matter what it is.
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