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Old 05-07-2005, 07:08 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Gadget Choices & Blackberry 7250 vs. 7290

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I have read Blackberryforums.com thoroughly and have drawn some conclusions about device choices that I'm interested in the community verifying and/or commenting on. Apologies for the lengthy post but I'm trying to get all of my thoughts in one place to get the reactions of others.

I travel periodically for my job (domestically) and work around the clock. I travel sporadically internationally, mainly for an occasional vacation to Europe or the Caribbean/Mexico. My family also travels to Nantucket for a week or two every summer. Because of work demands, I need to have access back to the office while traveling.

I strongly prefer to travel light both around town (I live and work in NYC) as well as when on the road. I have grown tired of carrying so many gadgets (cell phone, Blackberry 957, camera, Palm Vx, etc.). I don't have an MP3 player yet but would like to get one.

In a perfect world, one device would do it all. That perfect world doesn't seem to exist (yet). The closest device appears to be the Treo 650, but the lack of push e-mail (and no one seems to know when Blackberry Connect will come out on it), as well as the crashes and lack of robustness mentioned on this site (I hope those aren't biased) would rule that out. I need my email to come to me no matter what for my job, and that points me back to the Blackberry family.

I'll probably get some type of integrated MP3/camera device separately as those devices continue to evolve.

In terms of choosing a Blackberry phone (price is not an issue here), so I can at least consolidate 2 devices, I really like the idea of a wireless Bluetooth headset, and I don't like the crammed keyboard of the 7100, so my choices are the 7250 (Verizon) or the 7290 (Cingular or T Mobile). It seems from the posts that the new Flamingo headset may be the best for people like me that wear glasses and want high-quality coupled with extremely low weight.

Here in NYC, Verizon is widely known to have the best voice network. I wonder how much Cingular/AT&T is catching up. I'm assuming T Mobile has the worst voice network of the three so I'm ruling them out. I've read in the forums that Cingular can be used as a modem for my laptop (which I carry on extended trips), while Verizon can not but everyone seems to expect that will happen this summer, at faster speeds than anyone else. Cingular can be used internationally on GSM/GPRS while Verizon can not.

I'm inclined to go with the 7250 with Verizon because of the better voice service and faster data speeds expected soon. I have an unopened 6230 which I could pay someone (Bongo Wireless) to unlock from T Mobile, then use that phone with a prepaid SIM card (from Telestial) for my infrequent international travel. Or I could buy any other unlocked GSM phone and do the same, in order to get access through a quad-band to the 850 bandwidth that the 6230 lacks (certain Caribbean countries only have 850).

The only holes in this plan appear to be:
--I still need to carry my Palm Vx to get AvantGo to read on the subway (where no network exists) everyday, as well as to get NY location-based look-ups for restaurants and shops through Vindigo. Maybe in the future Palm will have an integrated MP3 and camera to solve this.
--No WiFi. Although I'm struggling to figure out why I need WiFi anyway. Maybe someone knows. Again, maybe a new Palm device would have it.
--It appears that there are no prepaid SIM cards (yet) for Blackberry data, only voice. Maybe that will change down the road. I travel so infrequently internationally that maybe it's not a big deal. As a workahaulic I probably need an excuse not to be on my Crackberry 24/7 anyway, especially on vacation.

Again, sorry for the long post. It seems to take forever to do all of this research, and I wanted to put my conclusions in one place to see what people think about it. Comments/reactions welcome. Thank you.

Last edited by eliasek : 05-07-2005 at 07:15 PM.
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Old 05-07-2005, 07:52 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Well as a sales rep who works with both treo's and blackberries i must say the comments on the treo aren't biased. they're not bad if you only need occasional email and internet use but mainly cell phone functionality with data device capability. but if push email is a necessity, go blackberry. you'll still have plenty of the data functions of a palm device, but in a much more convenient and easy-to-use unit.

I think the most helpful advice i could provide would be to address your concerns:

when you mention WiFi, the only real need you might have for that is if you are in hot spots for wireless networking. having a palm with WiFi for example will allow you to connect to the net through that hot spot's network connection instead of the wireless internet. but with the blackberry, if you go with unlimited data usage anyway you'll have that capability without having a need to be connected to a wireless network "hot spot". you'll always be connected to the network (provided you're in the digital network) anyway.

As for the AvantGo, what information exactly do you need from that service? Because there are plenty of services for blackberries that access news, stock quotes, etc. furthermore, Berry 411 is a free program that lets you search yellow and white page directories for various locations and even provides links to maps to said locations based on a "home" address entry. and there are some of the afforementioned info/news/stock quotes, etc services (hopefully other users on here could point out some of the names of the applications) will even download the info you want to the blackberry for offline viewing, for the subway trips where no network connection is available.

now you mention the lack of availability for a pay as you go blackberry service for gsm. this is a drawback but you seem to be thinking that maybe it would be good for you at the same time bc it would let you get away from work for a bit while on vacation. i think this is the real big deciding factor bc only you can determine how important having the email access on vacation is to you.

my last bit of advice is just me own personal experience with the 7250 model, which you seem to be leaning towards. i myself have recently got hooked up on one on the bell mobility network in canada and i must say it is an excellent choice. its got great battery life (especially if you follow mark rejhon's tips for extending your blackberry's battery life when you first use it), its fast, the two levels of backlighting are great, the bluetooth is most convenient, it's got loads of memory for additional software, and the form factor and interface is very user-friendly. all in all it's an excellent device so if you do decide to go that way you won't be disappointed.

good luck with your decision.
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Old 05-08-2005, 05:33 PM   #3 (permalink)
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You asked me to comment and I am struggling with my thoughts for several reasons. VZW provides excellent coverage in the U.S. as you have already noted. Where VZW falls down is in two areas: 1) they are slow to get new devices into the market and are super secretive about their plans and 2) they are very slow to get software fixes or enhancement to market. Take the 7250 as an example. It is assumed to have EV-DO capability; however, VZW has never confirmed that it has the capability nor have they stated it would ever be available. Thus, if you buy on rumor you may be stuck with less than you think you are going to get. There are known bugs and issues in the current first release of the software but there hasn't been an update since the product was released. Contrast that with the Cingular and T-mobile versions. Even slow old Nextel is ahead of them. VZW has taken to crippling functions in an attempt to force users to buy additional products and services. For example, crippling Bluetooth or eliminating DUN capability from some EV-DO phones so they can't be used as a modem. This kind of short sided thinking kept me away from the 7250 after I tried it. I felt it had issues on the phone side and on the Bluetooth side. I realize that I am probably far more critical than the average user and many users would be happy with the device. Nonetheless, that is my opinion. I have both VZW service and Cingular so I am in a good position to evaluate both. I am currently using the 7100t on Cingular (can't recommend the device) and an LG4500 on VZW (an excellent phone). I travel frequently in the U.S. and occasionally to Europe and the Caribbean. So far, Cingular's coverage has been very good (since they merged with AT&T and started using the 850MHz band). Prior to that I would have only recommended VZW despite the other short comings. If you can wait a little longer, I would wait and see what VZW does before jumping on the 7250. EV-DO is the real big advantage it has over the 7290 so unless they make it available in a way that is usable why pay their higher prices for service? Battery life on the 7290 is far better and the ability to interrupt a data session with an incoming call is inherent in GPRS. On VZW the call goes to VM. Further, with GPRS/GSM you can also take it to Europe where it will work even better.

As for other devices, like the Treo 650, I can't recommend (though I have not tried the 650 I did own a 600). The Palm OS is just too unreliable and there are too many problems. As much as I don't like Microsoft as a company, the Smartphone OS and the PPC OS are better and I would consider the new HP 6510 or the SMT 5600 Smartphone. You don't get true push email at this time, but by polling every 15 minutes you get it quick enough and you can use SMS for instant messages. You get a far better quality email experience if you have attachments because you can view them formatted like the original instead of converted to a text view like RIM. If RIM comes out with an EDGE enabled device as is rumored, that may be a better choice. The bottom line is I would wait a little longer.
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Last edited by barjohn : 05-08-2005 at 05:36 PM.
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Old 05-08-2005, 06:18 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Thanks so much for your comments, Brenteus and Barjohn. Some follow up questions/comments:

1. A primary question for me boils down to Verizon voice vs. Cingular voice. It sounds like, Barjohn, you've seen an improvement in service with Cingular. Does that include New York? AT&T was widely known to be terrible here, and Cingular only entered recently. I assume you agree Cingular is better than T Mobile in any case.

2. What software bugs/issues has Verizon not fixed with the first release of the 7250?

3. What Bluetooth issues does Verizon have with the 7250? I will only buy the phone if I can get a Bluetooth headset.

4. How much better is the battery life with ht 7290 compared to the 7250?

5. What do the following sentences mean: "...the ability to interrupt a data session with an incoming call is inherent in GPRS. On VZW the call goes to VM." Does that mean with a 7250 I can't talk on the phone and send/receive/read emails at the same time? But I can with the 7290? Or can you multitask with neither one? Confused about this. This seems like a major tradeoff of a two-in-one device.

6. You're definitely right, Barjohn, that Verizon is dragging its heels on EV-DO. See their non-response to my question on the subject over the weekend below. Thread goes from most recent response to my original question. I guess we'll all be in the dark for awhile. Verizon makes it sound like RIM is at fault about EV-DO.

"Thank you for contacting the Verizon Wireless website. We are happy to assist you with your Blackberry 7250 question.

There have been no announcements from RIM (Research in Motion) regarding the possible release of modem drivers for the Blackberry phones. We have no reason to believe that there will be any drivers to be made available in the near future. We apologize for any inconvenience.

Original Message Follows:
------------------------
Think that will change, Jennifer? Will you support the modem in the next few weeks/months?


Thank you for contacting the Verizon Wireless website. We are happy to assist you with your Blackberry question.

Verizon Wireless does not support this device as a wireless modem to establish an internet connection on your computer. The USB modem drivers that would allow this have not been created. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Sincerely,
Jennifer
Verizon Wireless
Data Technical Support

Original Message Follows:
------------------------
Can the Blackberry 7250 with Verizon also be used as a modem? If so, what are the speeds with EVDO and what is the coverage? Thanks."

7. Barjohn, knowing what you know now, would you choose the new HP 6510 or the SMT 5600 smartphone over the Blackberry 7250 or 7290? Or would you wait for Verizon EV-DO for the 7250 and then decide? BTW, I didn't see the HP 6510 or SMT 5600 smartphone on the Cingular website -- what are they? Do you know about product launches that are about to happen? In fact, I didn't see any other smartphones/PDAs with a proper keyboard on the Cingular website. T Mobile does have the HP iPAQ h6315 but again it sounds like Cingular service so much better than T Mobile.

8. Barjohn, I know you've reviewed a lot of Bluetooth headsets. It seems like your conclusion is to go with the Flamingo for someone with glasses. Is that right?

Thanks again everyone for your insightful comments. Much appreciated. Just figuring out what to get is such a difficult process.

Last edited by eliasek : 05-08-2005 at 06:47 PM.
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Old 05-08-2005, 08:11 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Cingular customer service is inconsistent. If you get a good CSR, you can get lots of problems solved. If you get a stinker, he/she can undo good things and add bad things. I hear that the other providers are little or no better.

If you care (and I do, a lot) about internation service, Cingular and T-moble are the only choices. T-mobile is not available in my area, so I'm a Cingular guy. I have friends who have T-mobile, and when I see them out of the US, they're climbing trees to get coverage while I get five bars right where I am. On the other hand, T-mobile data plans are cheaper, and T-mobile customer service seems to be better on the average that Cingular's.

YMMV. Good luck.
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Old 05-08-2005, 10:37 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I will try and answer your questions as well as I can.

1. A primary question for me boils down to Verizon voice vs. Cingular voice. It sounds like, Barjohn, you've seen an improvement in service with Cingular. Does that include New York? AT&T was widely known to be terrible here, and Cingular only entered recently. I assume you agree Cingular is better than T Mobile in any case.

A. I donít have direct experience in New York. However, Washington D.C., South Bend, IN, Minneapolis, MN, Atlanta, GA, Dallas, TX, Alexandria, VA and many other locations have worked well with both. Sometimes one works better than the other and sometimes it is the reverse. When it was AT&T this was not the case! My point is to try it and see. Return it if it doesnít wrok where you need it to work.

2. What software bugs/issues has Verizon not fixed with the first release of the 7250?

A. A technical person that works for one of the major PC manufacturerís CEO located in Texas found the same problems with Bluetooth and voice quality that I complained about. You can do a search on my posts and you should find it. In his private conversations with RIM they acknowledged the problems (it helps to have some clout) and indicated that they had provided VZW with the fixes but it was now out of their hands until VZW chooses to release them. I can reveal no more than that since they were private PMs.

3. What Bluetooth issues does Verizon have with the 7250? I will only buy the phone if I can get a Bluetooth headset.

A. I can no longer remember the specifics but voice quality was one of them.

4. How much better is the battery life with ht 7290 compared to the 7250?

A. I donít know since I have not tested the 7290. Generally, GSM gets better battery life than CDMA.

5. What do the following sentences mean: "...the ability to interrupt a data session with an incoming call is inherent in GPRS. On VZW the call goes to VM." Does that mean with a 7250 I can't talk on the phone and send/receive/read emails at the same time? But I can with the 7290? Or can you multitask with neither one? Confused about this. This seems like a major tradeoff of a two-in-one device.

A. On a GSM based system using GPRS, if you are in the middle of using a data service such as browsing the web or receiving email and a phone call comes in, the data session is interrupted and you can take the call. When the call is complete the data session resumes where it left off. With CDMA, no such interruption will occur and the call will go straight to voice mail. You have no option and will never no that a call was trying to come in.


6. You're definitely right, Barjohn, that Verizon is dragging its heels on EV-DO. See their non-response to my question on the subject over the weekend below. Thread goes from most recent response to my original question. I guess we'll all be in the dark for awhile. Verizon makes it sound like RIM is at fault about EV-DO.

"Thank you for contacting the Verizon Wireless website. We are happy to assist you with your Blackberry 7250 question.

There have been no announcements from RIM (Research in Motion) regarding the possible release of modem drivers for the Blackberry phones. We have no reason to believe that there will be any drivers to be made available in the near future. We apologize for any inconvenience.

Original Message Follows:
------------------------
Think that will change, Jennifer? Will you support the modem in the next few weeks/months?


Thank you for contacting the Verizon Wireless website. We are happy to assist you with your Blackberry question.

Verizon Wireless does not support this device as a wireless modem to establish an internet connection on your computer. The USB modem drivers that would allow this have not been created. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Sincerely,
Jennifer
Verizon Wireless
Data Technical Support

Original Message Follows:
------------------------
Can the Blackberry 7250 with Verizon also be used as a modem? If so, what are the speeds with EVDO and what is the coverage? Thanks."

A. Itís like I said, VZW will decide when they are good and ready. Even using my government clout I have not been able to get them to provide me with beta versions or acknowledge that a beta exists.

7. Barjohn, knowing what you know now, would you choose the new HP 6510 or the SMT 5600 smartphone over the Blackberry 7250 or 7290? Or would you wait for Verizon EV-DO for the 7250 and then decide? BTW, I didn't see the HP 6510 or SMT 5600 smartphone on the Cingular website -- what are they? Do you know about product launches that are about to happen? In fact, I didn't see any other smartphones/PDAs with a proper keyboard on the Cingular website. T Mobile does have the HP iPAQ h6315 but again it sounds like Cingular service so much better than T Mobile.
A. The SMT 5600 is available from the Cingular web site but it is cleverly hidden. Here is the link: http://www.cingular.com/midtolarge/smartphone The HP6510 has not been released but is due for release very soon. The SMT 5600 does not have a keyboard but does support use of a Bluetooth keyboard. The 6510 does have a keyboard. It is due out this month. For more info here is the link: http://www.ipaqchoice.com/Generic3.a...qmodels_hw6500 .

8. Barjohn, I know you've reviewed a lot of Bluetooth headsets. It seems like your conclusion is to go with the Flamingo for someone with glasses. Is that right?

A. So far, but wait for the completion of my review due shortly.

Thanks again everyone for your insightful comments. Much appreciated. Just figuring out what to get is such a difficult process.
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Old 05-08-2005, 10:51 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
I'm inclined to go with the 7250 with Verizon because of the better voice service and faster data speeds expected soon.
I actually don't find that a accurate statement. In my opinion, for what you pay for, Verizon is not worth it. 49.99 dollar data plan for a "OK" data plan converage, is not the way to go, and in no way is it "faster", that I can say for fact. Also, how soon is soon? Cell companies say they are making upgrades everyday, and yet, there is never a REAL BIG difference.

If I were you, I would head to Tmobile for 7290, and Cingular for voice.
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Old 05-08-2005, 11:16 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I have a Motorola Blue Tooth headset that works great with my 7250. Also, I am very happy with coverage (in LA) and service. The 7250 gave me email access on a recent vacation when only dial up was available. This was worth a lot to me.
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Old 05-09-2005, 01:33 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Who's your carrier?
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Old 05-09-2005, 08:13 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Thanks everyone for your helpful comments.

In addition to the Verizon vs. Cingular/AT&T debate, I'm now again struggling with Blackberry vs. Treo, because I don't have BES at work, just the desktop redirector. My Treo friends are now telling me I'm crazy to continue with a BB with all of the advanced features of the Treo. Recognizing this is a BB forum, I'm curious what the group thinks. Thanks again for taking the time to offer thoughts and assistance.
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Old 05-09-2005, 09:23 AM   #11 (permalink)
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As I have previously stated, I am very demanding and particular and the shortcomings I find may be perfectly acceptable to others less picky than me. I haven't tried the Treo 650 but have read numerous posts with problems. Even Bluetooth headsets, unless they are the special ones you purchase from Palm One do not work correctly (same brand and model). I owned a 600 and it had many problems including poor sound quality and the speakerphone was distorted at almost any volume level. Add to that instability and constant reboots and it wasn't worth it. Further, though you can type quickly on the keys I never got comfortable typing on them and found myself not using it to send email.
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Old 05-09-2005, 06:19 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
however, VZW has never confirmed that it has the capability
I can confirm EVDO actually is in the works. Can't really talk about it.

Don't know which carriers will truly release EV-DO capability, but EV-DO actually is there on the 7250, albiet not active in the public.
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Old 05-09-2005, 06:28 PM   #13 (permalink)
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I'm not in New York, but my experience between the 7250 and the 7290 proved the 7250 to be the best. With similar coverage, the 7250 had better voice quality, faster download speed with the browser, and the device processor seemed to be noticeably quicker. As in, opening the calendar from the home screen took a lot longer with the 7290. I actually have more apps on the 7250 than I did on the 7290. However, battery life is worse with the 7250. Also, I've heard that phone calls go straight to voicemail if data is being downloaded at the time the call comes in with the 7250.
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Old 05-09-2005, 07:47 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Rejhon
I can confirm EVDO actually is in the works. Can't really talk about it.

Don't know which carriers will truly release EV-DO capability, but EV-DO actually is there on the 7250, albiet not active in the public.
Id EVDO limited to CMDS or will the GPRS devices (7290) get this technology also?
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Old 05-09-2005, 08:20 PM   #15 (permalink)
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It's called EDGE (2.75G or entry level 3G) and UMTS (3G) on GPRS.

EVDO is CDMA specific.

For more info see "BlackBerry Glossary" in my FAQ link below:
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Old 05-09-2005, 10:08 PM   #16 (permalink)
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The key questions are: will EV-DO be available on the VZW 7250 and if so will it be available for DUN use? If only available to the browser, it will help but that isn't enough in my opinion. Given recent VZW moves I am waiting to see before I consider it a viable solution.
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