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Old 09-30-2004, 08:24 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default T-Mobile 7100t Questions?

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This should be in the "Available Now" Category....LOL

It is 8:20 in Chicago right now....I will have mine in abnut an hour an half when the Tmo opens at 10am. I will come home and charge it up and then start to answer any question people might have.

I will put up some pics while it is charging and some side by sides compared to my current 7230.

Form a list of questions in list format and I will do my best to answer them all.

It might be easier if we number them

BTW---not sure what I am more excited about the new 7100t or that I finally have 50+ posts and can see the OS4.0 beta now....okay its the 7100t.
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Old 09-30-2004, 08:33 AM   #2 (permalink)
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I think the main 3 questions for most users are :

1) How's BT working?

2) How's typing?

3) IM client, how's it work?

also...

4) How's display compared to 72xx?

5) mic/speaker quality? better/worse than 72xx?

6) Overall impression?
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Old 09-30-2004, 09:15 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Questions from another thread...

7 ) Distintictive ringtones for seperate people

8 ) What games come loaded on it?

9 ) How does the SureType work with proper names?
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Old 09-30-2004, 09:58 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Default I got my 7100t Today

None of the data services are working yet. T-Mobile says to give it two hours until the data service associated with my SIM switches from Sidekick to Blackberry.

I will post more information when it comes up.
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Old 09-30-2004, 10:05 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bhsalzer
Questions from another thread...

7 ) Distintictive ringtones for seperate people

8 ) What games come loaded on it?

9 ) How does the SureType work with proper names?
No

Brick Breaker

Great -- especially if they're in the address book. It knew my company name and my surname the first time. Way cool!
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Old 09-30-2004, 10:05 AM   #6 (permalink)
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The only game included with it is BrickBreaker.

I got IM working with my Yahoo account. Im not sure if its SMS based, but if it is Im in trouble as I dont have unlimited SMS. Also, there is no MSN IM included.

SureType is pretty amazing. The only word that it doesnt guess right for me is 'see', it always comes up as 'are'.

The speed of the device is alittle slow, but not bad.

The screen indoors is amazing, outdoors not so good.

Havnt tried Bluetooth yet.

Im not crazy about the volume on calls. Its not bad, but my treo was louder.
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Old 09-30-2004, 10:08 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bfrye
I think the main 3 questions for most users are :

1) How's BT working?

2) How's typing?

3) IM client, how's it work?

also...

4) How's display compared to 72xx?

5) mic/speaker quality? better/worse than 72xx?

6) Overall impression?
I can make BT calls, but have been having problems receiving calls on my car kit. Also the car kit is activated each time a tone is played on the BB, including non-phone related stuff like messages received.

IM client uses SMS and also something at http://wirelessvillage.t-mobile.com/

Display is fantastic indoors, poor outdoors. With backlight all the way up, it's readable in direct sunlight, but nothing like the beautiful screen the other BBs have outside.

It works like a phone. Great sound quality and nice to hold to the head.

I think it's a keeper!
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Old 09-30-2004, 10:33 AM   #8 (permalink)
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I have posted pics at the followin address...

http://www.thesalzers.com/P9300029.JPG
http://www.thesalzers.com/P9300030.JPG
http://www.thesalzers.com/P9300032.JPG
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Old 09-30-2004, 10:58 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bhsalzer
Turn the display on :P
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Old 09-30-2004, 12:43 PM   #10 (permalink)
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It is still charging.... but the screen is very bright. Little harder to read in the sun.
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Old 09-30-2004, 04:38 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Okay here are all the answers to questions...

1 ) Haven't tried BT yet

2 ) Typing is great. I have big fingers and still find this easy to use. I could see if you are HUGE email user this might not be the right device for you.

3 ) IM client works wonderfully. Just as good as Sidekick 2 but here are early observations. I can't figure out to turn the volume off and only have it vibrate for IMs. Also can only have one IM program running at one time. Not an issue for me as 95% of friends are on AOL anyway.

4 ) Display is great indoors and medicore outdoors. Hard to see in direct sunlight.

5 ) Phone is a little crisper than 72XX and the speaker is awesome

6 ) Overall impression is Great just need to learn my way around faster. Hoping there are some shortcuts or I can reprogram where icons are on the homepage and application folder.

7 ) No distinctive ringtones

8 ) Only brickbreaker

9 ) Proper names are no problem.
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Old 09-30-2004, 06:45 PM   #12 (permalink)
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re: 9

You can turn off AddressBook dictionary additions if you want, but I think most of the time it rocks to have it on.

re: 6

I can't figure that out, dude. I switched to the BlackBerry theme because T-Mobile's was giving me hives. Can't believe they whacked _S_hortcuts to _T_hings.

re: 2

It rules.

Typing is pretty good. I wish the device felt more substantial but then I'd probably complain it was "heavy" instead. Generally speaking I like that happy medium. (Pick up a K700i from SE sometime, has a nice even "heft")

I switch devices frequently. This 7100 has ruined me for Tegic T9 I'm sure. And in less than 12 hours! ;)
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Old 09-30-2004, 06:52 PM   #13 (permalink)
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[quote="bollar"]
Quote:
Originally Posted by bfrye
I can make BT calls, but have been having problems receiving calls on my car kit. Also the car kit is activated each time a tone is played on the BB, including non-phone related stuff like messages received.

IM client uses SMS and also something at http://wirelessvillage.t-mobile.com/

Display is fantastic indoors, poor outdoors. With backlight all the way up, it's readable in direct sunlight, but nothing like the beautiful screen the other BBs have outside.

It works like a phone. Great sound quality and nice to hold to the head.

I think it's a keeper!
I think if you're getting all audio sent over BT then you're using Bluetooth Handsfree profile. Those people using Bluetooth Headset profiles will not have the same behavior and it will have a positive effect on the battery life of the 7100.

No device I bought in the last 12 months has the ability to look good in direct sunlight. Just as well, I hardly ever get outside during the day, so this isn't a big deal for me! ;)

Now I want to make sure we're clear on something. The IM client doesn't use SMS. Not at all. Its straight GPRS and you don't pay extra for it since it's required to get email on the bberry.

I haven't heard that T-Mobile was doing anything at all with IMPS/WirelessVillage - that URL doesn't work, and I'm not certain if you know what WV is. (That wasn't meant to be condescending at all, by the way - it's just that I've written a few articles about IMPS and WV and know more than most users would care to!)

WV is the common name for IMPS, which would be GREAT if T-Mobile actually started rolling it out, but as the IM client on the 7100 doesn't seem to support Chat/Presence over WV: it is unclear to me if they're actually using IMPS or just call their Oz IM gateway "Wireless Village" or if they have plans to actually allow direct IM and Presence pieces of IMPS.
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Old 09-30-2004, 07:50 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sempai
Now I want to make sure we're clear on something. The IM client doesn't use SMS. Not at all. Its straight GPRS and you don't pay extra for it since it's required to get email on the bberry.

I haven't heard that T-Mobile was doing anything at all with IMPS/WirelessVillage - that URL doesn't work, and I'm not certain if you know what WV is. (That wasn't meant to be condescending at all, by the way - it's just that I've written a few articles about IMPS and WV and know more than most users would care to!)

WV is the common name for IMPS, which would be GREAT if T-Mobile actually started rolling it out, but as the IM client on the 7100 doesn't seem to support Chat/Presence over WV: it is unclear to me if they're actually using IMPS or just call their Oz IM gateway "Wireless Village" or if they have plans to actually allow direct IM and Presence pieces of IMPS.
I can only report what the BB firewall tells me. It says that the IM client needs:

1. Permission to send SMS to 4670
2. Permission to act as a server for SMS_send connections
3. Permission to act as a server for SMS_receive connections
4. Permission to make an http connection to wirelessvillage.t-mobile.com

So, you'll need to work harder to convince me that the IM client does not use SMS as some part of the transport.

Since Oz is providing the software, I think it's reasonable to assume that the gateway is IMPS.

Quote:
About the OZ Mobile IM Gateway

The OZ Mobile IM Gateway provides mobile operators with flexible application-level billing models for mobile IM, supports both post-paid and pre-paid billing, provides dynamic IM protocol conversion to proprietary IM protocols when needed, ensures the efficient use of multiple wireless transports, and ensures IM services' compliance with all different flavors of the OMA IMPS (previously known as Wireless Village) specifications as well as future revisions.

OZ Communications is the leading enabler of standardized mobile Instant Messaging and Presence Services. OZ works closely with the world's leading mobile operators, IM service providers, handset providers and standardization forums to provide people with the best possible mobile IMPS experience. OZ's standards based products include the OZ Mobile IM Gateway, a carrier-grade IM billing and protocol gateway, OZ's Mobile IM Client Software, including the most advanced J2ME IM client available, and OZ's IMPS server, the most robust and fully featured IM server based on the Open Mobile Alliance IMPS specifications.
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Old 09-30-2004, 08:44 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bollar
I can only report what the BB firewall tells me. It says that the IM client needs:

1. Permission to send SMS to 4670
2. Permission to act as a server for SMS_send connections
3. Permission to act as a server for SMS_receive connections
4. Permission to make an http connection to wirelessvillage.t-mobile.com

So, you'll need to work harder to convince me that the IM client does not use SMS as some part of the transport.

Since Oz is providing the software, I think it's reasonable to assume that the gateway is IMPS.
IMPS/WV doesn't work with SMS. I don't know why they would require SMS.

The SE K700i and Nokia 6820 in front of me use IMPS/WV without SMS. I don't know why the BlackBerry thinks the Oz client requires SMS, I don't have the means to watch the traffic coming off a BlackBerry's radio.

Perhaps someone else can help us out, or I could just call Customer Care, since the BlackBerry plan only has 300 SMS messages included, and I've sent over 200 IM's today. That may give us some sort of metric.

(THough I've sent countless SMS this month too so YMMV!)

A shame T-Mobile would half-ass their IM client by putting in the Oz WV gateway and then only using AIM, Yahoo! and ICQ. Sorry that wasn't clear - I know what the Oz server does, I just think it is unfortunate that T-Mobile calls it "Wireless Village" when they don't allow IMPS via the native protocol.
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Old 09-30-2004, 09:00 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sempai
The SE K700i and Nokia 6820 in front of me use IMPS/WV without SMS. I don't know why the BlackBerry thinks the Oz client requires SMS, I don't have the means to watch the traffic coming off a BlackBerry's radio.

Perhaps someone else can help us out, or I could just call Customer Care, since the BlackBerry plan only has 300 SMS messages included, and I've sent over 200 IM's today. That may give us some sort of metric.
Actually, the new BB minutes and mail programs have "unlimited" text/instant messages. If you're on one of the BB plans without voice minutes, you have 300 text/instant messages.

Regardless on the transport used, and I'm sure you'll figure it out, I think it's important to note that T-Mobile refers to "text/instant messages" in the same bucket. That concerns me that we might be charged for each IM like it's an SMS.
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Old 09-30-2004, 09:08 PM   #17 (permalink)
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I'm going to have to call T-Mobile about this - there is no reason why anyone would want to do this as SMS.

I can use Wireless Village all day long using only GPRS on my 6820 or K700i, and even a T630/T637 or Moto V600 and never once have to use a single SMS message.

I will be really annoyed if they are ditching TCP in favor of SMS of all things. I guess a way to test would be to talk on the phone while trying to send an IM to someone
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Old 10-01-2004, 09:39 PM   #18 (permalink)
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I figured out what it was after doing some more homework.

T-Mobile isn't using SMS to do IM, it's just that Oz is using CIR on their IMPS gateway. Boooo!
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Old 10-01-2004, 10:02 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sempai
I figured out what it was after doing some more homework.

T-Mobile isn't using SMS to do IM, it's just that Oz is using CIR on their IMPS gateway. Boooo!
So what's CIR?

I'm in an interesting situation tonight. Looks like T-Mobile's BlackBerry network is down. I have no E-Mail or Internet. Only SMS and IM.

Following T-Mo's instructions to pull the battery (before I got escalated to somebody who knew something, obviously), I got 20 SMS messages containing portions of IM chat. The SMS messages were addressed from 4670.

You can test this yourself. Make sure that IM is not set to autoload at start (tools: settings: IM autostart). Turn on the Oz client and begin a chat. Pull the battery from the BB. Send a message to the BB from the other end of the chat. Put the battery back in the BB. As soon as you connect back to the network, you'll get new messages in the inbox. Here's one:

Fr: 4670

WV11NM3bb nother location. This screen name is currently signed in at 2 locations. Click here for more information."
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Old 10-01-2004, 10:26 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bollar
Quote:
Originally Posted by sempai
I figured out what it was after doing some more homework.

T-Mobile isn't using SMS to do IM, it's just that Oz is using CIR on their IMPS gateway. Boooo!
So what's CIR?

I'm in an interesting situation tonight. Looks like T-Mobile's BlackBerry network is down. I have no E-Mail or Internet. Only SMS and IM.

Following T-Mo's instructions to pull the battery (before I got escalated to somebody who knew something, obviously), I got 20 SMS messages containing portions of IM chat. The SMS messages were addressed from 4670.

You can test this yourself. Make sure that IM is not set to autoload at start (tools: settings: IM autostart). Turn on the Oz client and begin a chat. Pull the battery from the BB. Send a message to the BB from the other end of the chat. Put the battery back in the BB. As soon as you connect back to the network, you'll get new messages in the inbox. Here's one:

Fr: 4670

WV11NM3bb nother location. This screen name is currently signed in at 2 locations. Click here for more information."
I am still not in complete grasp of all the facts, I'm just reviewing my IMPS documentation and re-familiarizing myself with it. I was thinking it used SMS to notify the 7100t to pull for new messages. I may or may not be right about that. HOWEVER >

CIR = Communications Initiation Request

Usually if you're using the built-in WV client on modern phones other than the 7100t they just schedule a poll-time and leave it at that. Each vendor is different. Motorola checks every 2 minutes, SE checks every 7, Nokia every 4 minutes, whatever.

I'm making those numbers up by the way, I know MOT is the fastest poll and SE is the slowest. I have the actual digits somewhere but they weren't handy and it really isn't important.

Yamigo uses straight IP/polling on theirs because it is super wicked cheap to do it all over GPRS/IP and they'd have to start charging if they did it the SMS way.

Anyway, OMA specs for IMPS are pretty clear on this, I just had never paid attention to the SMS parts of the thing. I'm still re-reading those parts because I'm curious about this now more than I thought I would be.

I am concerned that people will get the impression that they're merely using SMS to send IM via the 7100t, which isn't true. SMS is involved in a fashion, but more like WAP-SMS push in lieu of queues and polls like most devices.

The Oz box supports both, and in fact the recommended config appears to be that they use TCP until there is a problem, then to fall back to SMS. T-Mobile appears to have decided that this means they should always use SMS, probably for revenue or simple billing.

I wonder if because you turn off your device it falls back to SMS?

You said you get incoming messages while on the phone, same thing would happen there too.

I'm more curious now than I should be, and will keep digging if anyone is interested!
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