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Old 07-18-2007, 12:40 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by JEEPers View Post
I wonder if we can retrofit the WiFi capabilities? I have a 8800 now but if the parts for WiFi is available and u can install the additional functionality yourself, then that is pretty cool.
Yes, I would totally be interested also since I bought mine two months ago.
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Old 07-18-2007, 02:12 PM   #22 (permalink)
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VZW has disabled the GPS on the 8830 they're offering.

And BES connectivity won't be an issue, on wifi it hooks up to your carrier to simulate traffic going through them. Even so all BES to blackberry communication is handled by their routers that the BES server stays connected to 24/7, all you need is an internet connection to get to that BB router and the handheld would have that access on the wifi side.

I am very anxious for this and hope that even if it does come out for AT&T first, that it can be unlocked AND still use the UMA services with T-Mo's @Home offering.
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Old 07-18-2007, 06:07 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Please forgive me but I'm holding out for the 8820 with Wi-Fi but I can't tell if I will need to subscribe to a data plan or Blackberry Internet Service Plan just to have the Wi-Fi enabled. I'm really only interested in surfing whenever I find Wi-Fi hot spots but I'm not interested in paying for a service plan for the little surfing that I'll likely be doing.
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Old 07-18-2007, 06:12 PM   #24 (permalink)
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I don't see what's so hot about the 8820? For me the WiFi is not a big deal since usually I use my Blackberry in places where WiFi is not available. When WiFi is available I'm using a laptop or desktop. If it had some other features like 3G, OBEX, native HTML or email rendering, which it doesn't, I'd be more interested.
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Old 07-18-2007, 06:41 PM   #25 (permalink)
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8820 is posted officialy in the european blackberry sites!
but not on the US site yet!

BlackBerry - BlackBerry 8820 smartphone

BlackBerry® 8820 Smartphone Wireless Handled Device | Sleek Design with High Performance Features | Wi-Fi

according to that it will be provided from start only from Orange in UK and France!

maybe Orange will be the first to provide the WiFi BB plan
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Old 07-18-2007, 06:54 PM   #26 (permalink)
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I dont see the big deal with Wi-Fi in a phone, the phone isnt powerful enough to get the speed advantage of Wi-Fi over EVDO. I had a PPC 6800 with Wi-Fi and it was only a tad faster than EVDO service. Now I understand ATT will need this since they lack the EVDO coverage that Verizon and Sprint has.

Just today on my new BB 8830 I tested 1.2mbps which is a jump up from 600-800kbps that the Treo 755p I had prior since again the phone is the limiting factor on speed.
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Old 07-19-2007, 12:10 AM   #27 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by AndrewAZ View Post
I dont see the big deal with Wi-Fi in a phone, the phone isnt powerful enough to get the speed advantage of Wi-Fi over EVDO. I had a PPC 6800 with Wi-Fi and it was only a tad faster than EVDO service. Now I understand ATT will need this since they lack the EVDO coverage that Verizon and Sprint has.

Just today on my new BB 8830 I tested 1.2mbps which is a jump up from 600-800kbps that the Treo 755p I had prior since again the phone is the limiting factor on speed.
Well this is a huge improvement over the EDGE network - so I'm happy with it. . . . .
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Old 07-19-2007, 12:17 AM   #28 (permalink)
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WiFi is surely faster than EDGE but I agree that the device probably can't render quickly enough to make a significant difference in the user experience.

I see the WiFi as useful with UMA so that the device's phone and data can be used where the carrier's signal is less than useful which may be useful in keeping carrier's services useful.

Related article:
Enterprise customers turn to WLAN if cell carriers don't do the job | BlackBerry Cool
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Old 07-24-2007, 05:36 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Since this has WiFi will users be able to seamlessly switch between Edge and WiFi? And will they be able to send/receive email on the WiFi connection?

If so, whats the route of the messages from the BES to the device? Will the BES be updated to handle internal traffic without going through RIM's NOC? Straight from the BES to the device? What about a public WiFi hotspot or your home WiFi?


We have a horrible time with connectivity in our building. This would be unreal to be able to stay connected inside the bowels of our office building.

I have been doing some research on UMA, which stands for "Unlicensed Mobile Access" and is the standard that all of these next generation Wi-Fi hybrid phones will be using. The "unlicemsed" part has to do with the fact that the transmission is occuring on radio spectrum that is not licensed to carries by the FCC.

Basically, your phone will treat the Wi-Fi networks that you have pre-authorized it to use as if they are additional little cellular towers. Your phone will use the WAP in your house/office to send its signal to a special back-end device at AT&T (or whoever your carrier happens to be) in an IPSEC encrypted data tunnel. The carrier will handle your data at the receiving point in exactly the same manner as if it was coming in through one of their cell towers. So if this works as described, your BES will have no idea whether it is communicating w/ your device via the cellular network, or via your Wi-Fi access points. As a result, it should continue to work exactly the same way that it does via the existing EDGE connection.

Initial reports I have read of people using the T-mobile UMA service (with their crappy selection of only two phones) say that the transition from the cellular network to the Wi-Fi network is seemless, and they and their callers have no idea the switch is occuring. It makes sense too that you would have great call quality via a Wi-Fi connection, when you consider that even a poor 802.11b connection has something like 100 times the bandwidth of a fantastic EDGE connection. Should be a big benefit for E-mails (especially when you want to get the attachments), multimedia files etc.

This is truly unbelievably cool, and will solve a major problem I have with reception at my home. I am only able to get 3 bars of service most times, and this is plenty for continuing to get E-mails etc. but sometimes trouble on calls. However, I have an awesome Wi-Fi 802.11 b/g network set up, and an 8820 will seemlesly "hand-off" to this network when I am in/near my home. That should give me perfect coverage.

Now I am just concerned about whether or not an 8820, with the additional antenna, will continue to have the same epic battery life that I currently enjoy with my 8800. We'll see.
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Old 07-25-2007, 08:07 AM   #30 (permalink)
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I hope this isn't a silly question... Does AT&T support UMA? I thought only TMO offered UMA support at this time. If AT&T supports UMA, it would really make it a much better choice for me in my area. Unfortunately, TMO has a very weak presence where I live. Also, anyone know when AT&T usually releases new phones, like what day of the week? My 30 day trial is going to be up soon, and I would much prefer a WiFi enabled phone over the crippled Verizon BB I am using now.
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Old 07-25-2007, 10:40 AM   #31 (permalink)
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Default WIFI in a BB??? WHO IS BRAVE ENOUGH TO ADMIT....

Ok so riddle me this... The new BB 8820 has WIFI. That is great news! Iphone Killer right? WRONG! What is the point to have wifi when the BB utilizes a browser that cannot possibly maximize the speeds gained by using wifi. Not to mention that most java/ quicktime and flash sites cannot be viewed. What are we really gaining except another way for a carrier to bill us for services that we do not need. I know your saying to yourself at this point, "but wifi is free, this guy is a NEWB!" Yes that is true, but you know they (Mobile phone monsters) will offer a 'SKYPE' type calling plan for only $15.00 a month that seemlessly switches bewteen celluar and wifi, ...BLA BLA BLA, it still wont work right... or offer more downloadable (pay) services catered for the BB's limited internet browsing capabilities. Great we can spend $2.00 per song faster now!!! At least the iphone's internet browser (safari) can view real pages and do real internet browsing in an enjoyable GUI. I think BG said it best on his page when he said, "Apple is crushing the competition right now and all of their competitors, from Microsoft to Asian knock-off manufacturers.... are [all] scrambling for a response. You know, real innovation right? Not "3 years" to stick a camera in a BlackBerry…" or [3] years to stick wifi in a device that doesnt need it. And what about power consumption. Now we have another feature we have to turn off. As far as I am concerned the speeds offered by the current wanna be 3g networks are all the BB needs. When they double the screen size, make the pointer ball operate more like a mouse and offer some real changes in their concept of a 'all-in-one-phone', then will wifi be a coveted and needed feature. I would have preffered a camera or a glass screen instead of plastic.... WHO ELSE HERE BOUGHT A 8830 AND IS SAYING TO THEMSELF WTF! WHOS WITH ME ON THIS!
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Old 07-25-2007, 11:36 AM   #32 (permalink)
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I'm with you that wifi is ovrhyped and unnecessary in the US. The benefits are much better for Canadians who pay dearly for their data. BB as it is now is not a good web browsing phone and yes the limitation of the processor, screen and browser do not make me for one all that excited for a wifi berry.

as for your complaints about your sprint 8830, well RIM offers devices with cameras just not with sprint atm.
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Old 07-25-2007, 11:45 AM   #33 (permalink)
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I'm stoked for a Wifi blackberry, so let us that can realize it's potential, enjoy it.
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Old 07-25-2007, 03:07 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davcho64 View Post
I hope this isn't a silly question... Does AT&T support UMA? I thought only TMO offered UMA support at this time. If AT&T supports UMA, it would really make it a much better choice for me in my area. Unfortunately, TMO has a very weak presence where I live. Also, anyone know when AT&T usually releases new phones, like what day of the week? My 30 day trial is going to be up soon, and I would much prefer a WiFi enabled phone over the crippled Verizon BB I am using now.
I spoke with an AT&T rep yesterday. They do not have any information about when this phone will be released. However, the did confirm that they will be supporting UMA. That is good news.
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Old 07-25-2007, 03:27 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by RukRem View Post
Ok so riddle me this... The new BB 8820 has WIFI. That is great news! Iphone Killer right? WRONG! What is the point to have wifi when the BB utilizes a browser that cannot possibly maximize the speeds gained by using wifi. Not to mention that most java/ quicktime and flash sites cannot be viewed. What are we really gaining except another way for a carrier to bill us for services that we do not need. I know your saying to yourself at this point, "but wifi is free, this guy is a NEWB!" Yes that is true, but you know they (Mobile phone monsters) will offer a 'SKYPE' type calling plan for only $15.00 a month that seemlessly switches bewteen celluar and wifi, ...BLA BLA BLA, it still wont work right... or offer more downloadable (pay) services catered for the BB's limited internet browsing capabilities. Great we can spend $2.00 per song faster now!!! At least the iphone's internet browser (safari) can view real pages and do real internet browsing in an enjoyable GUI. I think BG said it best on his page when he said, "Apple is crushing the competition right now and all of their competitors, from Microsoft to Asian knock-off manufacturers.... are [all] scrambling for a response. You know, real innovation right? Not "3 years" to stick a camera in a BlackBerryxxx8230;" or [3] years to stick wifi in a device that doesnt need it. And what about power consumption. Now we have another feature we have to turn off. As far as I am concerned the speeds offered by the current wanna be 3g networks are all the BB needs. When they double the screen size, make the pointer ball operate more like a mouse and offer some real changes in their concept of a 'all-in-one-phone', then will wifi be a coveted and needed feature. I would have preffered a camera or a glass screen instead of plastic.... WHO ELSE HERE BOUGHT A 8830 AND IS SAYING TO THEMSELF WTF! WHOS WITH ME ON THIS!
I though this post was sort of funny really. To this observer, the i-Phone is the most over-hyped gadget in modern history. Several people I know who actually own them have all said that they are "neat" but they have issues, most interestingly, that the battery life sucks. They do look cool though, and that touch screen is pretty nifty to play around with. My wife wants one.

To me, the iPhone seems like this: A neat looking little gadget with some WOW features that will be cool for a few days, but aren't as easy to work with as existing technology (like an actual keyboard) and which provides functionality that has been present in many other mobile devices for years. Yep, the iPhone got a storm of media coverage, which made alot of housewives and technology late-adopters say "wow, you can get E-mail and listen to music on a cell phone!". Whoopie ;) Other folks like college students and teenagers said to themselves "that will make me look cool and maybe give me something to talk about with that hot chick in my English class" and so they sat on line for hours to get one. I hope that chick was impressed.

As far as internet browsing goes, who really wants to download memory and graphics intensive full-sized web pages so that they can view them on a crappy little screen on an iPhone, BlackBerry, or any other cell phone for that matter? Not me. Most of the pages that are optimized for mobile use aren't that memory intensive anyway, and work just fine on existing phones using existing relatively slow data transmission systems like EDGE. You can download and view these 2 seconds faster using Safari browser? That's swell. In terms of everyday usefullness though it doesn't seem to make that much of a difference. At the end of a day, this really seems like a basic "mine is bigger than yours" debate ;)

I can easily afford an iPhone, and in some ways they do look pretty cool, but in the end, I am much more excited about a UMA capable BlackBerry. Not because I will be able to browse my high-school buddies MySpace pages faster via Wi-Fi, but because I will be able to get stellar reception via Wi-Fi indoors in the few locations where AT&T's unbeleivable solid coverage is only average. In particular, at my house. THAT is technology that will make a difference for me, and probably a lot of other people too. Ultimately, UMA technology will allow the carriers that deploy it to lower costs for ALL of their users since sytem loads will be decreased, and alot of the use will go onto the unlicensed spectrum and be accessed via private equipment. To me, this seems like more of a "sea-state" changing technology than combining an mp3 player and a cell phone.

Is it important whether the 8820 is an "iPhone Killer"? Not really. I dont think it is designed to be. It is aimed at a different market demographic with different priorities. I don't think every mobile device user determines what to purchase based on how it stacks up next to the iPhone.

In reality, do you think there are IT Managers at Fortune 500 companies out there losing sleep at night while they ponder whether or not they should be deploying iPhones to their mobile workforces? My guess is that no, there aren't.

Have a great day!
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Old 07-25-2007, 11:03 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RukRem View Post
Ok so riddle me this... The new BB 8820 has WIFI. That is great news! Iphone Killer right? WRONG! What is the point to have wifi when the BB utilizes a browser that cannot possibly maximize the speeds gained by using wifi. Not to mention that most java/ quicktime and flash sites cannot be viewed. What are we really gaining except another way for a carrier to bill us for services that we do not need. I know your saying to yourself at this point, "but wifi is free, this guy is a NEWB!" Yes that is true, but you know they (Mobile phone monsters) will offer a 'SKYPE' type calling plan for only $15.00 a month that seemlessly switches bewteen celluar and wifi, ...BLA BLA BLA, it still wont work right... or offer more downloadable (pay) services catered for the BB's limited internet browsing capabilities.
Lol hilarious & somewhat sensible rant but not the right points used.

1) BB's have supported Java for sooo long. No point here. Quicktime sites? Other than Apples home page and sub links WHAT SITE is QUICKTIME based? Do I wish to surf to it? Other than SonyEricsson's site links for handsets for preview videos; I see no point. BTW, the CURVE & 8800 both support Quicktime's .mov video format to some extent. mute point again.

2) Flash sites. I'm sure you're refering to PC based Flash sites, not flash lite 1/2 implementation for things like themes. As far as I'm aware the Safari browser in the iPhone STILL doesn't support FLASH YET! mute point again.

3) I'll TOTALLY agree with you on the Blackberry Browser SERIOUSLY needs to be OVERHAULED! It SHOULD NOT be the FINDER for the whole menu system - although I'd like to type in a path for it to open up a txt file I may have saved on the device/memory card. Same goes for MEDIA application, it too needs to be refined.

4) You DO have a choice to NOT choose Skype. All those loosers on PPC's when it was first offered on mobile devices didn't phase me one bit. I don't need it nor wish to use it. I have NO clue how it ever took off. Offering it on GSM/CDMA NON-hybrid phones makes me ponder in comedy.
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