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Old 05-31-2005, 02:41 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default 7100T Refund from TMO for Rebooting Devices

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Please note before signing: Blackberry has released an update that seems to address this problem! (fingers crossed)

Please try this before signing, it may correct the problem.

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As of 7.5.5, I have been reboot free for TWO DAYS! Amazing. Will keep you posted.

===============================
Update: I have posted a petition to address this issue. If I obtain more than fifty signatures, I will present it to Tmobile and see what we can make happen.

As of 6.29.5, 9am, we have collected a total of 42 signatures. Not bad! Eight more and I will start to present my case to T-Mobile.

Thanks to all who have signed the petition.


T.Mobile. The 7100T. Unwarranted five minute long reboots, daily.

The phone apparently was pushed to market with a grave defect.

You can read all about it on this thread.

Now, my quick rant, followed by a proposed course of action.

I have lost countless hours of time using this product. I provide technical support services for customers about the Chicagoland area. When I'm 1/2 hour into a tech call, then the phone reboots and I have to call back and start from the beginning with a new tech, it really frustrates me, as well as my client. I bill by the hour and I can't bill my client for time that I lost due to owning a defective phone! So, I lose TIME and MONEY. This defect is absolutely not acceptable.

I have also lost about ten hours spending time on the phone with T.Mobile (got a reboot this AM while talking to them, about 25 minutes into the call). Their tech support holds firm that they don't hear about many problems with the phone. Once passed on to a supervisor, they stand firm about replacing the phone being the only option.

I have replaced the phone twice. Same problems each time, evident within hours of replacement.

Granted, these people are doing what they are told to do, but as a customer, I feel like I have been sold a "lemon" and that the retailer (tmob) has absolutely no concern for their customer woes.

I have appealed to Tmob twice now to refund me the price of the phone (after rebate, of course), and allow me to return this defective model, and in exchange I will purchase another cellular product from them and be done with this issue. The response I received on both occasions was a firm "NO". One supervisor suggested I EBAY the phone and the other suggested that I start pursuing RIM to obtain a refund. I started calling about this defect within the first week of starting service with tmob, less than three months ago.

I'm in the customer service industry. Rest assured, I am VERY patient and considerate when speaking with tmobile reps. No freaking out, just plainly stating my case and expressing simple dissatisfaction when it is not properly addressed.

It appears that I can proceed as follows:
1) Continue to receive replacement models, likely at the rate of one a month. But to what avail? None but my frustration.

2) Start a campaign against T.Mobile to get them to provide refunds for this product for every customer who has experienced this problem, at the request of the customer.

I don't think that this is disagreeable or unwarranted...

To this effect, I have slapped together a rough draft of what I will shortly propose to Tmobile, and likely make public on petitiononline.com as well as other venues.

Quote:
T Mobile is profiting from the sale of a defective product, the RIM 7100T, and is not taking any steps to resolve the defect with the product to the satisfaction of the customer.

The RIM 7100T has exhibited distinct failures regarding it's ability to operate reliably as a cellular telephone. The failures are described as such:

1) In the middle of a telephone call, the RIM 7100T will disconnect from the network, the call will end and the screen will change to a white background with an hour glass. The device remains in this state for approximately five minutes, rendering itself useless for the duration of this process.

2) On occasion, the issue described in point 1 will occur, and it will be necessary to remove the battery and reinsert the battery in order for the phone to reconnect to the Tmobile network.

3) There is a shorter version of the issue described in point 1, in which the RIM 7100T disconnects during a call, the background goes to white, and the phone comes back to the main screen within a minute. Again, the 7100T device is rendered useless for the duration of this process.

The defects presented above are apparent across the country, affecting hundreds of T Mobile users.

The actions that T Mobile has taken at this point to resolve the issue are not apparent. To this date, there has not been a public statement from T Mobile regarding the issues outlined above, and no statement concerning the intended resolution.

The RIM 7100T device is presented to the marketplace as a cellphone, among other things. The level of service the marketplace demands of their cellular equipment is that, provided service is available in the area in which the calls are being made, as well as power being available from the battery installed in the device, the device should not reboot or render itself useless for any period of time without warrant or previous notification from the service provider.

T Mobile should provide their customers a path of recourse to establish the level of service they expected when they purchased the RIM 7100T.

For this reason, it is being requested of T Mobile that they provide a credit to the account of the subscriber, at the request of the subscriber, the total sum of the cost of the phone, minus any rebates, so that the subscriber may then use that credit to purchase a comparable product from T Mobile.
I figure that if they won't listen to me, maybe they will listen to a few hundred of us?

I can't see myself shelling out an ADDITIONAL $349 for another phone from TMO while the original one they sold me is defective.

If I buy a product from Best Buy and it is defective and they replace it, and the replacement is defective, you had better believe that they would replace the device with a different model or credit your account.

I'd be happy to hear your comments.

Last edited by JimmySwinger : 07-05-2005 at 10:12 PM.
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Old 05-31-2005, 02:59 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Default Great idea but...

Where do I sign
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Old 05-31-2005, 03:59 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pkodyssey
Where do I sign
I think this is a one shot deal, and don't want to waste anybody's time with a half baked petition, so I want to take a couple of days to put together a solid statement that accurately illustrates the issue at hand and then make it available to the online community.

I will post a link to the petition on this thread when it's fully cooked.

I hate online petitions, but I don't know a better route!
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Old 05-31-2005, 10:13 PM   #4 (permalink)
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I'll sign it. I love this device, other than this issue (did it to me again today while on a call), so I hope this prompts action, but, if it won't be fixed, I'll dump it. It's not worth it. I have noticed that it often coincides with getting an email, but not always.
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Old 05-31-2005, 10:25 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I have experienced the same problem and one I consider even worse. The unit disconnects from the network and you are unaware that it is disconnected until you have reason to make a call or send an email. In the meantime you are not getting your calls or emails and you are totaly unaware. When you look at the unit it will either say searching for the network or worse just an X. I have also experienced the situation where it shows it to be connected but you cannot call out until you reboot. Finally, audio and Bluetooth are horible on any version other than 3.8. Sign me up!
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Old 05-31-2005, 10:31 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmySwinger
I hate online petitions, but I don't know a better route!
A class action lawsuit would be the best avenue, assuming the abundance of people are actually experiencing the issue at the same regularity you are complaining about. I personally do not have the issue myself, with one-off reboots here and there every few months (perhaps 2-3 times since last October). Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but generally speaking, if you have a strong case, a lawyer (you being in Chicago, I don't see it being an issue finding someone) should be able to file a class action suit against T-Mobile and/or RIM and you'd pay little to nothing to have it done and you'd likely receiving either what you want or less (although the feeling of being 'right' may be worth more than the $199 you are wanting in refund).

Anyhow, that would be a last resort option, in my opinion. Take that route after you get the petition signatures and after you present those signatures to T-Mobile and receive a unsatisfactory reply.

Or you may want to take the route of contacting The Dog at Maximum PC. If nothing else, the letters and responses are quite humorous to say the least.
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Old 05-31-2005, 11:16 PM   #7 (permalink)
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As an attorney myself, I don't recommend the class action law suit approach for several reasons:
1) It takes a long time and a lot of money to file a case and get it established as a class action suit. (It must be certified for class action and this requires many things). Not just any attorney can file a class action law suit.
2) Plaintiffs generally wind up with very little in the way of settlement (30 minutes of free calls, etc.) and the attorneys walk away with all the cash money.
3) I think companies should have an opportunity to provide an alternate solution/resolution to the problem. The other approaches you have suggested will cost T-mobile substantially in lost future business and they may well see the wisdom of satisfying the (small??) vocal minority represented by those of us on these forums.
4) This petition should be addressed higher up the food chain in T-Mobile than a customer service supervisor that has very limited authority.
5) The feeling of being right hardly ever compensates you for the time required to properly support a class action law suit. The law firm will require the named plaintiffs to provide substantial technical help in defining the injury. If the device works 98% of the time is your injury 2% of the cost of the item (your loss)? Is the injury merely inconvenience? How much is the inconvenience worth? The burden of proving that you have suffered a loss and the value of the loss falls on you. If it failed 100% of the time it would be an easier case. Can you show and prove consequential damages, i.e. you lost a $50K contract because the phone failed you during a crucial negotiation when you had no other means of communications available? Does their warranty and service contract exclude consequential damages (probably does)?
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Old 05-31-2005, 11:35 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Thanks for that, jibi... Agreed, a lawsuit would be a last resort... But who knows, after it's all said and done, I might wish that I had started with it!

Ideally, what I'd like to see is

A) A public response from either T Mobile or RIM regarding this issue, simply indicating their acknowledgment of the issue on either of their websites.
B) T Mobile support representatives properly educated about the issue so that subscribers are not put through the ringer when they call about this known issue for a second or third time (time is precious!).
C) The option to return my defective device for a credit so I can switch to a different model 'berry.

I DID get a reply from RIM this afternoon regarding the issue:

They recommended removing the IM client, which I had already done. I responded that this was the case, and am waiting to hear back.

Additionally, I requested the following information:

Quote:
On another note, why is this information not passed down to T Mobile tech support? It would greatly reduce the amount of time they involve their customers in futile conversation or troubleshooting regarding the product. Both T Mobile and their customers could be spared a lot of grief if this were so.

Each time that I call T Mobile regarding this issue, I now have to "bully" my way through two levels of support that would have me jumping through hoops to arrive at the same conclusion that we arrived at with the previous replacement phone! Of course, I'm polite about it but I have to be firm otherwise these guys would have me working overtime trying to reseat the battery to "fix the problem"...

EDIT: I see your point, John. I think that as long as I keep my request reasonable and catered to address the woes of the community experiencing the problem, I have a much better chance of seeing results.

I would much rather apply a fix tomorrow to correct the problem and drop off this post like a dead fly (after sharing the fix, of course!) than have to invest another minute pursuing this agenda.

Last edited by JimmySwinger : 05-31-2005 at 11:56 PM.
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Old 06-01-2005, 12:39 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Freaking awesome.... I'll sign that thing. Such a great device but cruddy service from RIM.... I hope their stock goes down if we all make this known. Send the thing to cell phone magizines and other news sources. If it hits the big press we should get results...

This reminds me of the IBM hard drive mess... I had 15 of those drives.... Lost a lot of business then...


heavy
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Old 06-01-2005, 01:00 AM   #10 (permalink)
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i am game, it only happened to me a few times and only one day but nonetheless this should not be happening and someone should fix it, if anything get you another 7100t
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Old 06-01-2005, 11:42 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Just let me know where to sign, and I'll do what I can.
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Old 06-01-2005, 11:57 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Jummy;

Just curious....

I know that the point is that TMOB/RIM needs to fix their product, but, in the mean time, have you tried handset SW 3.8? I am assuming that you are getting reboots on 4.0. I have not had one single reboot in a month after downgrading to 3.8.
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Old 06-01-2005, 02:34 PM   #13 (permalink)
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I agree.... 3.8 solved ALL of my problems. I got a referbished 7100 from T-Mo to replace a defective 7100 and it came with 4.0 installed. Rolled it back to 3.8 and everything is now a-ok...
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Old 06-01-2005, 03:08 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Just to throw in my $.02-no problems since downgrading to 3.8 other than low earpiece volume.

Justice is simply to let as many people as possible know about the POTENTIAL of rebooting if they go with T-Mo and a 7100t. AFAIK Cingular 7100gs don't experience this problem so it's simply T-Mo figuring they'd lose less money by screwing a relatively small number of customers. Make it more painful for them and they'll do something for you.

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Old 06-01-2005, 03:28 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texasag90
Jummy;

Just curious....

I know that the point is that TMOB/RIM needs to fix their product, but, in the mean time, have you tried handset SW 3.8? I am assuming that you are getting reboots on 4.0. I have not had one single reboot in a month after downgrading to 3.8.
Interesting, that... I started out with 3.8, and was experiencing the reboots! Once 4.0 came out, I upgraded and continued to experience the problem.

I have NOT since downgraded to 3.8... I will give it a shot and see what happens?

But before that happens, I am experiencing my FIRST day of no reboots in over a month... For no apparent reason. At least, I'm halfway through my first day and usually the phone would have rebooted a couple of times already. So, I am going to wait for the rest of the day to see if it continues to behave. No changes until then!

That would be funny if my problem was resolved, I guess this thread would have to be carried along by someone else, huh?!
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Old 06-01-2005, 11:29 PM   #16 (permalink)
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I'd say to push this through T-Mobile, despite having the hardships you experience (don't worry, we're a fairly large enterprise customer and I never receive calls back when they say they are going to call back; I am lucky to have a NAM that I can contact directly and she usually lights a fire under someone's ass for us). T-Mobile signs off for the OS after they receive it from RIM and go through a beta testing process. They have yet to update past .198 (I think that was it), whereas Cingular and Rogers are up to .219 (maybe more). I do not think .219 fixed issues for anyone, but its still worth noting that T-Mobile are being dreadfully slow or reluctant to release any updates on their site for these models.
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Old 06-02-2005, 10:08 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Okay... Uncanny timing for this, but I can now say that yesterday was my first day without the reboot in over a month!

Why couldn't this have happened four days ago?!

If I can get three days of no reboots out of the phone, I'm going to slap a post up here and leave this agenda alone for the time being.

I sure would feel silly having stirred up this post and not pursuing it, but if the device suddenly starts working, well, you know.... I kinda CAN'T pursue it!
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Old 06-02-2005, 10:52 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Maybe we swapped phone gods...mine decided to do its little rebooting trick for the first time in weeks yesterday. Unfortunately, it happened when there was a fire in the building directly across the street from mine, and I was trying to call friends to make sure they were okay. Very handy to be standing on the street trying to calm down anxious neighbors while simultaneously trying to pull my battery and replace it so that the phone would reconnect to the network. Grrrr.
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Old 06-03-2005, 05:20 AM   #19 (permalink)
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twice yesterday...your just lucky Jimmy, it will happen again.
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Old 06-03-2005, 06:57 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Point me in the right direction to sign, this issue is sending me over the edge.
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