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prasetyadrian 05-16-2013 08:52 PM

what's the outlook for z10 and future products?

help me understand this...

I'm loving BB from the moment I got the Curve and signed up for BIS until the moment I have the Torch. And I'm feeling an attraction for the Z10, BUT I'm feeling depressed and on the fence about getting the Z10 due to the various news that have come to light these past several months:

1. BlackBerry (formerly known as RIM) is leaving BIS, which means bye-bye pushmail service--which is the strength of BB in the first place. What I previously understand about BIS and pushmail is we pay for server subscription that pulls messages from our webmail accounts and push them to our handset.

2. Then I read about
Post-BIS BlackBerry Z10 offers superior e-mail functionality | ZDNet
that says pushmail can still work on Z10 due to Microsoft EAS functionality (which, according to that article, becomes the de facto standard for pushmail technology). But without BIS subscription, I wonder how EAS can work? I've been reading about EAS and from what I understand it still requires a server to push the messages.

3. In Dec 2012, Google announced that it's dropping EAS for its free customers in favor of IMAP + CardDAV (paying Google Apps customers are still supported with EAS). One of the articles about that is here
That's like slitting the wrists of a large number of customers like me whose primary e-mail app is Gmail and have multiple Gmail accounts for different purposes. Though, much of the articles I read didn't mention what the impact of that is for BB, you have to wonder whether or not, after the cutoff, can the Z10 (and future BB handsets) use Gmail again?

4. As you know, BlackBerry has announced to release BBM as a multiplatform app that can run on Android and iOS (my guess, to compete with WhatsApp). But this move is only decreasing BB's appeal. The moment this move is realized, a whole lot of people--who only care about BBM feature--will be ditching their BB for other phones and download BBM onto it.

It seems, to me, that BB's position is weakening due to both external and internal measures.

What do you guys think about BlackBerry's outlook? Should I just forget about getting the Z10? And should we all prepare our goodbyes to BlackBerry altogether?

dc/dc 05-17-2013 05:46 AM

Re: what's the outlook for z10 and future products?
Wow. Did you type up this post like 6 months before BB10's release when we were all trying to figure this out? Everything you asked has been discussed/dispelled, but here you go:

1. Wrong. Mail is still pushed or pulled to the handset. It's been faster than BIS for me.
2. EAS doesn't need BIS. Never has. Let me google that for you
3. Have you used IMAP + CarDAV and CalDAV? They work just as well as EAS, and they're FREE for Google. It works better than BIS ever did for Google.
4. I don't think anyone on iOS or Android really cares about BBM.

Why bother posting about BB's position? It's not germaine to the rest of your post. Their outlook is all your opinion, so it's not worth me sharing mine.

prasetyadrian 05-17-2013 09:13 AM

Re: what's the outlook for z10 and future products?
Whoa, dc/dc, take a chill pill man, no need to go all sarcastic there. The reason I asked those questions is out of genuine concern as a stakeholder. I'm not the kind of person who is a gadget freak and like to try out any new gadget. The reason I'm still staying with BB is because I truly like its functionality. Call me old fashion, but that's the kind of guy I am. You've got to admit, though, that BB is dwindling down in the market in the past year or so and these news don't exactly restore confidence.

But, okay, let me take the high road in replying your response here because I sensed you didn't get some of the points I was making:

1. My understanding of BIS was BB central server conducts the pull then push to the handset unlike handsets that directly pulls via the data service. Why is this pull vs push important? Because the rest of the world don't live in the US where Internet connection is cheap and/or reliable and/or as fast (I've lived in the US for a decade so I can safely make this comparison). Having push service means we don't get charged for data connection when message is delivered, kinda like how SMS works (texting, in US-speak), you don't get charged for receiving. (You may say "But you'd still be paying for BIS," yes, but that's a packaged service with Internet connection, so it's a bargain.) So, if BIS is off the table, my first reaction was "bye-bye pushmail service"--until I heard about EAS.

2. I haven't read up on the particulars of technology advances since I got out of college, so the workings of EAS are unknown to me, such as how does EAS conduct the push without a server? I haven't found an article on the Web explaining that, only that the latest version of EAS provides "true push" functionality. If I had to guess, then I'd say that EAS is set up at the webmail server we subscribe to, and when we set up the accounts on our handset it signals the EAS on the webmail server that push service is established. It's a crude and oversimplified guess, I know, but if you know how EAS works, by all means, please share.

3. Does IMAP+CardDAV+CalDAV work the same way as EAS (push)? As opposed to pull? The service is free for Android users, but if it's a pull functionality then they get charged for data connection when message is delivered. The reason why this is important is already listed in point #1. What does this have to do with BB, you may ask? Well, most of the e-mail accounts I set up to receive in BB are Gmail accounts, so if Google is removing EAS support for its free users then how would I receive my e-mails on BB10 that uses EAS? Much of the articles on Google dropping EAS don't talk about the impact on BB, but rather on Windows 8/RT users (which Microsoft counteracts with

4. You don't know what the BB market is outside the US. In my country BB sells like hotcakes! It's the biggest selling smartphone followed by iPhone. And the main reason why iPhone is #2 because its selling price here is twice than in the US! Also, it's common to find people here carrying 2-3 handsets--don't ask why, but they do--so, don't be surprised to see someone carrying BB + iPhone + Android phone, maybe add a tablet to the mix, all at the same time. One of the main selling point of BB here is actually BBM, not really the pushmail service. People who are attracted to this are teenagers and young adults who are gadget freaks and style-over-substance-type of people, who care more about chatting, they're not loyalist like me :). Android is the latest craze now, people are buying Android phones left and right and BB's popularity is slowly decreasing. The reason those people still use BB is because their family members or their gang/clique/whatever are on BBM. So, with BBM going multiplatform then obviously they won't need to have a BB, so obviously this would affect BB sales.

So, there you go, I do hope my explanation here is clearer. But I AM looking for genuine opinion and knowledge here, guys. If I make a wrong assumption, please correct me.


dc/dc 05-17-2013 10:11 AM

Re: what's the outlook for z10 and future products?
I couldn't read all of that without getting bored, but I'm feeling nicer today than I normally would in this situation, so here are the links to everything you need to know. It's genuine knowledge and my genuine opinion follows.

Exchange ActiveSync - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And here is how Gmail works:
IMAP IDLE - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
CalDAV - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
CardDAV - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I have seen no increase in data usage with the above protocols over BIS, they're as fast or faster than BIS, simpler, and there are fewer points of failure. It's better and far more flexible.

Finally, I absolutely do know the BB market outside of the US. I travel (have been to ~35 countries on 5 continents), and I have lived outside of the US for several years in places a lot more challenging than Indonesia for technology. Don't make assumptions.

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