BBS rules and discussion of phone mod?

[StuartV]

Is it permissible within the rules of this discussion forum to discuss modifying a phone so that the GPS will work without paying the carrier any extra service fees?

I do NOT mean, for example, modifying a phone to run VZNavigator without paying for VZNavigator. I DO mean, for example, modifying a phone to have full GPS accuracy while running Google Maps without paying for VZNavigator.

I don't THINK it could be construed as a violation of the terms of service with my carrier, as I highly doubt the TOS has anything at all in it about GPS. So, I don't THINK it would be a violation of this board's rules, but I figured I should ask first.

The reason I'm curious is, the situation with my phone's GPS and my carrier really gripes my wagger. They may as well have told me I have to pay an extra $10 per month to use the built-in speakerphone. I am a software developer for a living, and I am somewhat confident that, if I wanted to spend the time doing it, I could figure out some way to get the GPS to work without paying extra for that. Or maybe I'm ignorant and naive.

But, I am also a bit torn because, if somebody did figure out a way to get the GPS to work, then I think that would take away pressure from the carrier to just unlock it from the get-go. And it would remove an obstacle to people opening accounts with that carrier. IOW, it might actually help the carrier, which I don't want to do. I'd really like to see backlash from the whole subject hurt the carrier so badly that they go ahead and unlock the GPS - unlikely as that is. That would save a lot of time and hassle from doing it myself.

Anyway, back to the question at hand: Is it permissible here to discuss the technical details on how to do such a thing?

[impuLsive]

I'm trying to figure out how to do this for 8320 without connecting to the internet. I use Tmobile, Blackberry Curve 8320, and have wifi at home. I can't use anything without paying $20 or $40 for the unlimited plan which I refuse to do.

[StuartV]

That is a completely different subject. Getting a position from the built-in GPS has nothing to do with Internet access. Internet access is simply used (normally) to download map data, once the phone knows what its position is. That way you don't have to have all the map data stored on the phone.

So, nobody seems to object to my line of discussion...

Does anybody have any clue how Verizon disables the GPS, then re-enables it to use VZNavigator?

Has anybody tried cloning, say, a Sprint phone into a Verizon phone, but preserving the original ESN and PIN, to see if that gets the GPS to work?

It seems like an obvious train of thought to speculate that RIM actually made these phones specifically for Verizon with some kind of different hardware in them than the same Sprint phone, that allows VZW to disable the GPS. BUT, even if that were true, it's still the case that a piece of software (VZNav) is able to interface with the hardware and make the GPS work. In which case, it should be possible to write 3rd party software to do the same thing.

Does anybody here have any experience with an SDK for writing apps like VZNav? Does it include a simulation environment that lets you test apps within your dev environment?

Does the dev environment behave the same as the phone when you try to access the GPS programmatically?

Can you decompile the VZNav code to try and see what it does to enable the GPS? I would guess it uses some kind of public-private key deal to get an unlock code OTA from a VZW server.

Is there a way to download the built-in firmware, so that it could be decompiled/disassembled to possibly find the decryption key it's using when VZNav talks to it?

Does anybody have any insight at all into this?

[StuartV]

ps. PM me, if you'd rather discuss this privately.

[Sith_Apprentice]

or for all the extra effort +time you could just purchase a bluetooth gps device for $75 or $100. This has been discussed many times on here, firmware doesnt matter, you can load the Sprint OS on a VZW device and it wont change anything. doa search on the forums for GPS and Verizon

[StuartV]

Paying that much for a BT GPS puck and then having the hassle of carrying it around, remembering to grab it, keeping it charged, etc, is a non-starter in my book.

If I actually *needed* the GPS functionality to be more accurate than "within 1 to 3 miles", and I couldn't figure out a way to enable the GPS myself, I would just pay the $10 a month to Verizon.

The whole point of having my BB is for my *convenience*. Hassling with a BT puck is a significant degradation of the BB convenience. I'm not going to cut off my nose to spite my face (or spite Verizon, in this case). OTOH, "analyzing" some software/firmware and developing some code to make it work differently - well, that's what I do for a living. Sitting on my couch with my laptop and doing that is much more palatable to me than spending money on a puck and then dealing with all the related PITA factor of that.

Also, I have searched for Verizon/GPS, and there are so many posts - with 99% of them providing no answers to the questions I've posed here - that I have not been able to find answers to my questions.

[JSanders]

I don't see a problem with this thread or it's basic nature discussion to discover any secrets or clues to the enabling of the GPS, I just have little hope of any resolution to hacking VZW lock on the GPS, which is why you haven't found the solution on any threads here or elsewhere. Not that it can't be done, it might be possible.

We just ask that you keep it civil. Very few of these type discussions have remained such.

Otherwise, a freedom mini gps puck is about the size of key fob for automobile, just hang it on your key chain, no biggie. You may consider it a significant degradation of your convenience, but for the device you purchased, it is the gateway to GPS.

[FF2]

I did purchase the Freedom gps and have attached it via lanyard to my 8830 BUT... It really would be nice to use the gps already installed inside my phone. I got a discount when purchasing the phone but have to believe that the cost of the phone included a gps and NOT just to alert 911 to my position. If verizon thinks it gps-related service is worth $10/month, then let them compete head on with the competition but they should UNlock MY gps.

So I wish you luck and know that my cobol programming experience will not be the least bit of help. (G)

[takeshi]

Originally Posted by FF2

I got a discount when purchasing the phone but have to believe that the cost of the phone included a gps and NOT just to alert 911 to my position.

It's up to the carriers to decide. Every device manufacturer (Apple being the only possible exception) has a disclaimer like this:

Please check with your service provider for supported features and services, and available colors.

[John Clark]

Yep, I'm with JSanders. You can discuss this (as long as it remains civil) however, you will find that it's futile. MANY smart modders and hackers have tried to do this only to find that it's just not possible. Verizon/RIM have it locked down very tightly. We have had many threads in the past year or two about this and nobody has found any kind of workaround. If you need GPS, I recommend the puck (this is what I use and I like it) or switch carriers/devices for the feature.