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Old 12-25-2008, 09:09 PM   #21 (permalink)
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these threads always puzzle me.... same as nokia and symbian being old, and palm os. just think in 2 years android will be old and outdated too! puzzling threads.

if its not broken why change it? why restructure a whole company and the ever implemented handset just for a new os? blackberry needs 2 things to help them

1 java based cpu's to speed them up their sluggish sorry, and still expand ram on them. atleast 1-4 gigs base memory.
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Old 12-25-2008, 09:31 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noethix View Post
Wow you've got your foil hat on nice and tight huh?

Links and sources to confirmed said accusations? I didn't think so.

They harvest information to make their software that much better. There's a reason why Google is on top.
OMFG. Are you kidding me?
You might be the most naive person ever.
Google is in the advertising business. Always have been. Always will be.
It's no conspiracy. That's what they do.
 
Old 12-25-2008, 10:06 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by conker View Post
The main point behind my post was preparation for the future and scalability. There is nothing on the Android phone that I want right now. I simply don't want RIM to fall further and further behind, while platforms like Android and iPhone take more and more consumer AND developer market share away, because their platforms are newer and are more nimble. The "not invented here" mentality works for some - like Apple and Microsoft, but RIM is certainly neither of those companies.

Many here and on other forums have replied to my post by using the "RIM has the corporate market" argument. That kind of thinking is how companies become less and less relevant and fail. Just look at the American auto industry. It's true, BB's seem entrenched in the corporate world, but why should that be enough or even relevant when the line dividing business and consumer is more and more blurred with these devices? As new corporations evaluate, or re-evaluate their smart platform of choice they now have other legitimate platforms to consider, and pure business consideration is no longer the tipping point.

We should all want RIM to expand into other markets, as they are trying to do. My fear is that their platform will prevent them from being able to keep up with the Apple's and Android's of the world. As a longtime software developer, it's painful watching how obviously dated their OS is, how dated their development processes are and how they are struggling to adapt and catch up:
+ Luanch of their "store"
+ Luanch of a touch-screen device
+ Widely publicized and marketed developer conference (I wonder what attendance was like in comparison to developer conferences put on by Apple and Google)
+ Email [email address] ? Where is the forum where I can "talk" to developers, and really feel like they are listening? I might as well drop a letter to them in a mailbox.
+ Archaic OS update process that always has one crossing one's fingers
+ No over the air update process
+ Lack of release notes with each OS
+ Frequent beta releases of OS's

I TOTALLY agree, nerds do not represent the majority, and this statement helped me realize why people were misunderstanding my original post. Again, the lines are being blurred - actually are now. It is simply my opinion that given their current OS platform, they simply will not be able to remain competitive on the consumer side of things, while the others will be able to advance at a much quicker pace, distancing themselves, while at the same time being able to make incremental or significant advances (really their choice depending on strategy and where the market is going) towards matching RIM's business functionality.

The comment about Microsoft developers is a good one. I am not sure how to respond to that. All I can say is that it is certainly better to have an army of developers behind your platform, then a shrinking one. iPhone had 10,000 applications launched for their phone last month. You cannot ignore that. Other manufacturers are and have decided to launch new phones with the Android platform. Why wouldn't they? It's a very attractive long term investment. The manufacturer does not have to invest in an "invented here" software development team, they have access to a large population of skilled developers, can leverage the Android store (which will have a monetization strategy as it grows) and can market their phones towards an ever increasing consumer base of Google fans.

I just want RIM to adopt a strategy that will allow them to stay relevant and competitive.

Thank you all for the insightful discussion.

-c
I agree with you, but the fanboys will not.
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Old 12-25-2008, 09:08 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by wabbit View Post

if its not broken why change it?
Glad your not running RIM. Palm once thought like you do, look at them now.
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Old 12-25-2008, 09:25 PM   #25 (permalink)
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I will agree RIM has been slow to adapt but after attending the developer conference they are fully prepared for what they need to accomplish. I am going to mix in comments below.


As a longtime software developer, it's painful watching how obviously dated their OS is, how dated their development processes are and how they are struggling to adapt and catch up:

+ Luanch of their "store"

Yes this is way late. They should have hate this worked out when Apple launched theirs. The app store was no secret. I am still not totally buying into RIM's ideas of how to implement it but we will see.


+ Luanch of a touch-screen device
Yay finally did. I think timing was good. I think a launch around the same time as the iPhone would have been very bad.

+ Widely publicized and marketed developer conference (I wonder what attendance was like in comparison to developer conferences put on by Apple and Google)

Attendance was well over 1,000 which was surprising to many for the first every conference like this for RIM. RIM actually let you meet face to face for an unlimited time with a developer.

+ Email [email address] ? Where is the forum where I can "talk" to developers, and really feel like they are listening? I might as well drop a letter to them in a mailbox.

If you are a member of RIM's developer program you have access to a private forum that allows you access to developers at RIM. They are very responsive.

+ Archaic OS update process that always has one crossing one's fingers
I agree and this is changing.

+ No over the air update process
I am glad to have seen and tried an OTA OS update on the 9530, very smooth and fast.

+ Lack of release notes with each OS

Don't know if this will ever change

+ Frequent beta releases of OS's

I think you will see a lot more. Because RIM places the OS' in the carriers hands for approval there is a delay. Do you notice all the recent leaks, especially when the carriers are dragging their feet . . . .
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Old 12-26-2008, 09:23 AM   #26 (permalink)
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collecting data isn't necessarily a BAD thing, "personalization" is where everything is moving towards ... people want things that are relevant to them
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Old 12-26-2008, 10:13 AM   #27 (permalink)
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Data collection goes on all the time. From the those keyfobs many of use use in the grocery story, to what TV channels we watch, to what websites we visit. Without advertising, many services would either be very expensive, or simply won't exists at all. I would rather have ads tailored to my preferences, then a bunch of generic ads for male enhancement and women's makeup. And how many people here use gmail or the Google search engine. No worse then Android.
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Old 01-06-2009, 10:18 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by ArgonNJ View Post
Glad your not running RIM. Palm once thought like you do, look at them now.
right, lets use some beta open os thats been hacked within 24 hrs to get the phones root. GREAT MOVE! no IT security risks exist.
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Old 01-06-2009, 11:26 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by wabbit View Post
right, lets use some beta open os thats been hacked within 24 hrs to get the phones root. GREAT MOVE! no IT security risks exist.
PUHLEASE, some proper perspective here? How long has RIM had to lock down their OS in comparison to Google?
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Old 01-07-2009, 11:15 AM   #30 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by conker View Post
PUHLEASE, some proper perspective here? How long has RIM had to lock down their OS in comparison to Google?
RIM was secure from the get go. That level of security is not something you add on. it has to be in the core of the OS.
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Old 01-07-2009, 02:29 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by wabbit View Post
right, lets use some beta open os thats been hacked within 24 hrs to get the phones root. GREAT MOVE! no IT security risks exist.
Do you know anything about Linux? Apparently not. The Linux OS is very secure. Just because its open source doesn't mean it open for anyone to exploit. That is why many use Linux for servers as opposed to using the MS equivalent. Fact is the BB OS is just about played out and RIM either needs to move on to bigger and better things. Android is already here, why not license it and add their security features to it.
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Old 01-07-2009, 02:31 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by CanuckBB View Post
RIM was secure from the get go.
So is Linux.
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Old 01-07-2009, 04:39 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by ArgonNJ View Post
Do you know anything about Linux? Apparently not. The Linux OS is very secure. Just because its open source doesn't mean it open for anyone to exploit. That is why many use Linux for servers as opposed to using the MS equivalent. Fact is the BB OS is just about played out and RIM either needs to move on to bigger and better things. Android is already here, why not license it and add their security features to it.
wow, dont even go their.

first off

heres some schooling, linux is as secured as you make it. dont include some windows wanna be flavor like ubuntu, a real linux dist, is fully customized. by you the user, know what you want. (and exploits exists on linux too!)

now

why do people go linux over ms? its cheaper, and considering most go Redhat linux which is on a subscription base that comes with SUPPORT! thats cheaper to implement then say the same bang for the bux with ms, hence they use linux.

so yes i dont get what you are saying. do you even have a linux box? or is it like lol ubuntu the linux for dummies dist? and ever wonder why ubuntu patches even more then microsoft for security problems? hmmmm its gatta be SAFE!

but why linux, what about unix, bsd, etc? picking a flavor of the month does not mean its better.

but thanks for the pointers, even tho i hacked more unix systems then windows just cause they were server, its not safer.

the fact when people buy a rim product, its for communications, they want to be reached 24/7, they buy an iphone so they can have a mp3 player, and android, well lets leave this as beta for now, since google is great at that tag.
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Old 01-07-2009, 06:51 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by wabbit View Post
ubuntu the linux for dummies dist?
Probably the funnest thing I read all day! Thanks for the laugh. And yes, that is what I'm running now. I've also run Suse, PC Linux, and Mandriva. Are those also Linux for dummies. Let me guess, you're a Gentoo guy.

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Old 01-07-2009, 07:28 PM   #35 (permalink)
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slackware, ubuntu is where it stands sorry, my opinion of it dont change.

edit: i'm kinda impressed, i sorta put you as a mac user ....

Last edited by wabbit : 01-07-2009 at 08:04 PM.
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Old 01-07-2009, 08:07 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by wabbit View Post
slackware, ubuntu is where it stands sorry, my opinion of it dont change.

edit: i'm kinda impressed, i sorta put you as a mac user ....
I use macs too. I'm actually running Vista, OSX and Ubuntu at my house. I like to dabble with everything.
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Old 04-18-2009, 06:58 PM   #37 (permalink)
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Quote:
What most people don't realize is that RIM has a multi-billion infrastructure to support this end-to-end security, e.g the NOC, BES, etc. Google and Apple don't.
I agree, on a few iPhone news sites i've seen that apple's MobileMe is seen as a future alternative to a BES type solution; from what I have gathered on looking at it's features it is merely an email forwarding and data backup service.
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Old 05-28-2009, 12:42 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Here is an interesting article about this very idea.

RIM and Google: The Perfect Storm? | Tech Broiler | ZDNet.com

Seems like a good idea to me.
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Old 05-28-2009, 01:04 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by ArgonNJ View Post
Here is an interesting article about this very idea.

RIM and Google: The Perfect Storm? | Tech Broiler | ZDNet.com

Seems like a good idea to me.
I will be happy to take credit for calling this out if it ever happens
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Old 05-28-2009, 02:54 PM   #40 (permalink)
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Just my $0.02 but I think RIM should offer the option of a hybrid OS that runs android apps in a VM with the standard BB OS as a host. I also think that recently the BB OS has been evolving well and all we need is more devs that are willing to code for BB's.
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