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Old 01-23-2009, 02:37 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Petition for RIM to make a Linux friendly Desktop Manager

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Hi all,

In my signature there is a link to a petition to try and get RIM to make a Linux friendly Desktop Manager. I'm sure all BlackBerry Linux users will want this, so please click on the tiny URL in my signature and sign it. Will be great if you can spread the word about it too!

If this carries a moderators approval can you please make it a sticky?

Thanks!
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Petition post for a Linux BlackBerry Desktop Manager can be found here.
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Old 04-23-2009, 09:38 PM   #2 (permalink)
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There's no link to any petition.
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Old 04-23-2009, 09:42 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Yeah, Linux. Good luck with that.
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Old 04-23-2009, 10:47 PM   #4 (permalink)
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I use the barry project. It can backup and restore. It also has bjavaloader which can load, save, and erase modules. It also has a plugin to sync with evolution. So it pretty much is Desktop Manager for Linux.
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Old 04-24-2009, 09:41 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Anyone know of anything that will sync with kde Kontact?
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Old 04-25-2009, 01:06 PM   #6 (permalink)
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RIM doesn't even have a Mac desktop manager. Do you really expect them to even consider Linux.
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Old 04-25-2009, 04:20 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArgonNJ View Post
RIM doesn't even have a Mac desktop manager. Do you really expect them to even consider Linux.
Man you are really all over RIM these days aren't you.
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Old 04-25-2009, 04:45 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawg View Post
Man you are really all over RIM these days aren't you.
Got to keep them on their toes. There is always room for improvement. Lack of Mac support was the main reason I went back to my iphone. PCs aren't the only game in town anymore, RIM needs to address this.
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Old 04-25-2009, 06:52 PM   #9 (permalink)
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To the OP, here is the comment that I posted on your site. I could not find a petition to sign, but that is OK as I don't think it would do much good anyways.

Quote:
According to the latest statistics that I have seen, about 7% or so of the desktops out there are Apple Macs, and less than 1% are running Linux of one distro or the other. It is all a numbers game, the important numbers being revenue. RIM still has not addressed its lack of an Apple solution, and I doubt we'll see one for Linux until it is economically beneficial for RIM to do so.

I wish that this weren't the case, but do keep in mind that RIM is set up as a proprietary organization, not an Open Source one, and their primary motivation is the buck!

Like many other things in the Linux world, this is probably an area where, if we want something, we'll have to do it ourselves as a community. From what I can see, Barry is the most realistic shot.
I would love to see something to the level of support that is out there for Palm devices (all the "pilot" apps). I don't know if Palm had anything to do with this or not.

With mobile devices like the Android-powered T-Mobile G1 beginning to show up, and the OpenMoko project coming along, we may find that development energies get spent on all-Linux solutions, instead of porting to the proprietary world.

While I love my new Curve, I am just waiting for the day that Android gets ported to the CDMA world and US Cellular.

Support Open Source.
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Old 04-25-2009, 08:20 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArgonNJ View Post
Got to keep them on their toes. There is always room for improvement. Lack of Mac support was the main reason I went back to my iphone. PCs aren't the only game in town anymore, RIM needs to address this.
It is mainly in business. Mac hasnt taken over the business world and i dont see it doing that anyway. Thats why there is not much mac support.
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Old 04-25-2009, 09:06 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Dawg View Post
It is mainly in business. Mac hasnt taken over the business world and i dont see it doing that anyway. Thats why there is not much mac support.
This is true, but RIM is branching out into the consumer realm and many of those people use Macs.
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Old 04-26-2009, 03:23 AM   #12 (permalink)
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But their main business is still the corporate and goverments so why change what works flawlessly. The consumer market is still a drop in the bucket.
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Old 04-26-2009, 11:46 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawg View Post
But their main business is still the corporate and goverments so why change what works flawlessly. The consumer market is still a drop in the bucket.
The consumer market is where the money is. Businesses keep their equipment longer, while the consumer is always going for the latest and greatest. Consumers are also the ones buying the apps, which RIM gets a cut. To say that RIM shouldn't change because it ain't broke is what killed Palm. They went from #1 to just about dead last in the market they created. The smart phone segment is exploding in the consumer arena. To limit and primarily cater to just business is just plain stupid.
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Old 04-26-2009, 01:04 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArgonNJ View Post
The consumer market is where the money is. Businesses keep their equipment longer, while the consumer is always going for the latest and greatest. Consumers are also the ones buying the apps, which RIM gets a cut. To say that RIM shouldn't change because it ain't broke is what killed Palm. They went from #1 to just about dead last in the market they created. The smart phone segment is exploding in the consumer arena. To limit and primarily cater to just business is just plain stupid.
I don't know if I'd necessarily agree with all of that. You, the consumer, buys one phone at a time, maybe three or four if you've got a family. A corporation the size of IBM on the other hand, might buy thousands. Even a smaller company, like the one a friend of mine was IT Director for, purchased several hundred phones at a time. Consumers also tend to spend less per phone than businesses do. The whole smartphone phenomenon grew thanks to business. Your Aunt Ethel isn't buying a BlackBerry or Windows Mobile device to store her Word documents on! She isn't buying it to access her Exchange server either.

Most consumers keep their phones at least for the duration of their current contract, and in the US, that generally amounts to two years. Many large businesses do a tech refresh every three years. Don't judge the market by what we see on forums like this. I see many folks out there using cell phones that have external antennas (other than iDens) which tells me that there's a whole segment of the buying public that doesn't just jump for the latest and greatest.

Most of the "phone-hopping" happens amongst the 18-30 year old age group, but that is only a portion of the market. It is this group of consumers that spends the lion's share on applications as well. The largest majority of cell phone users don't have anything on their phones that didn't come with the phone, although this is beginning to change as cellular internet access picks up. Even so, millions of people still don't access the internet via there phones, or even use SMS.

If you were to check with RIM, you'd find that although lucrative, their applications market is small potatos compared with their hardware market. The only place where this might be different is with Apple, and although they currently enjoy being the largest selling single phone in the US, that is still small when compared to the world's total phone sales.

I do agree that RIM must change, which they appear to be doing with phones like the Storm and Bold. What killed Palm was that they failed to modernize their operating system to adapt to changes in the use of their devices. I still have an old Kyocera 7135 laying around here, and when I look at it compared with my Curve, it more resembles a child's toy to me. It's interface is like the Apple II of smartphones!

When you think about it, Windows Mobile, has merely evolved since its conception as Windows CE, back in 1996. I also have an old Phillips PDA running CE 2, and it is not all that drastically different an interface than what I boot to on my recently retired HTC PPC6800. In fact, I came to owning a BlackBerry Curve because I was bored with that aging interface, and the Touch Pro was promising to be more of the same. Microsoft would be wise to consider adapting its Zune platform for cellular phone use.

In our current economic situtation, I don't see the consumer market as being the prime one to go after. Of course, if things change...

Keep your eyes on Android!
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Old 04-28-2009, 06:39 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rasmith3530 View Post
To the OP, here is the comment that I posted on your site. I could not find a petition to sign, but that is OK as I don't think it would do much good anyways.



I would love to see something to the level of support that is out there for Palm devices (all the "pilot" apps). I don't know if Palm had anything to do with this or not.

With mobile devices like the Android-powered T-Mobile G1 beginning to show up, and the OpenMoko project coming along, we may find that development energies get spent on all-Linux solutions, instead of porting to the proprietary world.

While I love my new Curve, I am just waiting for the day that Android gets ported to the CDMA world and US Cellular.

Support Open Source.
The openMoko project is, as predicted quite dead. It was junk. Too little too late.

I got the DesktopManager working under Vista running in VirtualBox following a google or two. The key is, when its connecting to the javaloader, to stop and then restart the usb connection in virtualbox.

Of course, caution advised.
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Old 04-29-2009, 11:44 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rileyrg View Post
I got the DesktopManager working under Vista running in VirtualBox following a google or two. The key is, when its connecting to the javaloader, to stop and then restart the usb connection in virtualbox.

Of course, caution advised.
So, if we install Windows inside of Linux as a virtual machine, we can sync a BlackBerry using the BlackBerry Desktop Manager software.

It's a cute parlor trick, but I don't think this is what the OP, or myself, are looking for. While it is "technically" using BBDM on Linux, it is not, in the real sense.

As I stated previously, I would love to see RIM create a sync solution for BlackBerry phones DIRECTLY on the Linux platform, but I highly doubt that this will happen until Linux sees much broader acceptance on the desktop.
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Old 05-01-2009, 11:32 AM   #17 (permalink)
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i'm a bit surprised that RIM hasn't made any linux native software yet, given how Linux and BB's are both used widely in the market that BB's are used.

the Barry Project doesn't seem to be quite up to speed with respect to later versions of Ubuntu, so for me I'll have to wait...
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Old 05-01-2009, 04:11 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by zero7404 View Post
i'm a bit surprised that RIM hasn't made any linux native software yet, given how Linux and BB's are both used widely in the market that BB's are used.

the Barry Project doesn't seem to be quite up to speed with respect to later versions of Ubuntu, so for me I'll have to wait...
Of course, one must ask, why does this surprise you? Yes, both BlackBerrys and Linux are used by the business community, but for very different purposes. Linux is still primarily a server operating system, having captured less than 1% of the total desktop market. Do you know many folks that are syncing their BlackBerrys directly at a server console?

Apple currently is running around 7% of the desktop market, and RIM isn't creating a solution for them. The only way we are going to see RIM writing a Linux equivalent to BB Desktop Manager is if we fix Ubuntu Bug #1!

Ubuntu Bug #1
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Old 05-02-2009, 08:02 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Apple currently is running around 7% of the desktop market, and RIM isn't creating a solution for them.
Oh, really?
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Old 05-02-2009, 12:45 PM   #20 (permalink)
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I stand corrected. Have you seen any updates, as this article is close to 7 months old? According to the article, the product should be released withing the next two months, so I would assume it would be at the late beta/ early release candidate stage.

If this actually happens as the article stated (I, for one, NEVER count chickens before they're hatched, especially when it comes to tech news), you now know what would be needed for Apple to create a Linux version of BB Desktop Manager, but you don't.

We of the Linux community present the proprietary world with problems that they don't face to such a degree in the proprietary world. If you want to see what I mean, just point your browser toward Distrowatch. Look at the diversity.

When you say, "Provide a solution for Linux," you are actually asking them to provide a solution for the many different versions of Linux. How many reading this would be happy if they provided a solution, but only for Red Hat Enterprise Linux users, with the attached proprietary licensing that the code could not be modified to make it work on other distros? After all, if your argument is that Linux is big with business, RHES is probably the answer. If not, then maybe Novell SuSE, after all, they're even in bed with Microsoft.

Would those complaining be happy if RIM created a solution that shut consumer users out? Would you be happy if users of smaller but important distributions like Slackware couldn't use the product? Hey, today, you look around, and there are compatibility issues between Ubuntu and Debian. What work on one won't always work on the other.

This is the problem that we, as a community, ask the proprietary world in general to solve. And of course, once they've solved it, someone will come along tomorrow, like a Mike Shuttleworth, and create the problem anew.

So, as I mentioned in my last post, if you want RIM to create a solution for the currently less than 1% of the desktop market that runs a Linux distribution, resolve Ubuntu Bug #1. Then, center Linux desktop use on a standardized format so proprietary companies don't have to shoot at a moving target.

Get desktop Linux use up near 10% and they might considering it, get desktop Linux use of a single distribution up near 10%, and you will probably see a version of BB Desktop Manager written for that distro!

Better yet, tell your Linux distributions to fully implement the Linux Standard Base and center around only one package manager. That would go a long way toward convincing the proprietary world to implement drivers for us.
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