So will the GPS be locked down?
 

After browsing through all the documentation released this past weekend on various websites, I'm somewhat hopeful GPS won't be locked down. The owner's manual states you can use it with BlackBerry Maps without adding language suggesting it depends on your plan, which indicates the $10 a month charge.

Can anyone confirm this or am I deluding myself?

That would be the same policy now... pay the $10/month for VZW Navigator, you got GPS, baby! Seems all the same to me.

yea it most likely will be locked down by verizon, thats what they do... but with Vodafone and any other provider it should not be...

If thats the case then Blackberry developers will not be able to write 3rd party programs that use location based services for the 9530. So can someone remind me how this is a good thing??

Good for who?
It's certainly good for Verizon Wireless. Additional revenue stream from their subscribers who want GPS navigation.

If we all banded together and said we will not buy the 9530 unless they unlock GPS, maybe they will listen.

I don't see why they would allow GPS on this phone and not any other, so I highly doubt it.

Food for thought:

10 bucks a month x 24 months = $240 (lots and lots of GPS available for this price and they are all most likely better than what you'd get on your phone)

I know that there are people out there that NEED GPS on their phone, but for most users, why wouldn't you just buy a standalone unit? It's not like your walking around using your GPS... is it?

this is whats bad about the VZW navigator deal. I understand where VZW wants to make money off the gps but there are so many good ideas about location based applications that to lock it up will kill those in most cases.

I'd bet my last dollar that it'll be locked down by Verizon. That is the one thing about them that just irritates the you-know-what out of me about Verizon....

But, they're not getting my $$ for their stupid Navigator. Very rarely do I need GPS for directions but when I do...I have OnStar in the Caddy.

Let's just hope if it's not this device, then in the future, when the 700MHz spectrum and there so called "open" initiative might change their ways to have open access to "freely" use your own device's GPS, but till then, i agree with everyone else, they're out to make money on all of us, why would the change that? ::sigh:: thus one of the things i just hate about Verizon...:-(

stupid question alert:

how do they lock down the gps? and would that status change if the phone were unlocked and/or the os updated to another provider's version?

No, nothing will change unless you subscribe with the monthly fee.

This has been discussed with literally thousands of posts here. Unlocking and OS-updating makes no difference.

Everything has been tried, attempted, hacked, upgraded, unlocked, petitions mounted and all-- AND even Verizon sued...

Nothing.

Verizon locks down GPS???:shock:

Lol.

Silence! Infidels! :razz:

Would it make a difference if the Blackberry development community made a big stink about this? What do the developers think about this inability to access the GPS tools for the 9530. Or do they simply just don't care or don't use Verizon. I find it hard to believe that the developers are just sitting there saying "big deal no GPS".

I mean really the people over at Telenav or similar companies are either.

a. Laughing their asses off at Verizon. For there ridiculous attempt at making navigation software on their own.

b. Salivating at the mouth looking at the largest Blackberry user base for potential customers.


Your thoughts developers..

So now my question is this:

Say you subscribe to Navigator - does this unlock the GPS so you can use it with other apps such as Google Maps or is it locked to the point that it will only work with Navigator?

I feel like I am eating "Mom's Hamburger" here at Verizon.

Eddie Murphy Raw - Burger from classicstandupfan

==

May be wishful thinking (and I don't care as I'm with AT&T). Still, reading the above quote again and again, makes me believe that RIM may not allow Verizon to lock down the GPS with Storm anymore...

Anyone else read the same?

Varying Verizon users have reported varying results.

That doesn't fill me with confidence. I guess it's not that big of a deal, I don't really need GPS on my phone. It is a very cool feature, though.

Bringing this thread back to life because of the newly released training guide.

On page 27, it talks about the features of the camera application and it mentions geotagging. Geotagging can only really be done accurately with GPS. So will Verizon have it open for everything or just geotagging aside from VZ Navigator?

http://img.skitch.com/20081022-m26au...8jnc8tjajc.jpg

Wishful thinking my friend. Even though VZW advertises GPS as a feature, in reality, they consider it a service. You will pay for it with everyphone or with none. They would lose a whole lot of customers if it was provided for free for "certain users."

This thread is mostly old and a lot of information has been released since most of the posts. It appears, based on most of the training documentation for verizon, that they intend to leave GPS enabled. Most of their documentation implies Blackberry Maps will be available this time around.

This is a huge sigh of relief. Not because I care if I pay $10.00 but mainly because we won't have to read 100 whiny posts about it on the forums.

But didn't Verizon change their advertising sometime after the 8830 to say "VZNav capable" with no other mention of GPS, rather than saying GPS capable like they had been? i.e. saying GPS capable implied the GPS can be used by any/all apps.. where as VZNav capable implies it can use VZnav.

I've already posted what my little birdy told me.. I'm just waiting for the release to see if its true...

This is a MUCH better GPS solution than the VZNavigator crap:

Costco - $199.99 after $40 OFF Garmin nüvi 205W 4.3" Touch Screen GPS w/ Portable GPS Bean Bag Mount

Oh, and it's $199.

Every Verizon phone is listed as coming with GPS, whether or not it has a true GPS radio. My son just got a new Voyager and paid an extra $5/mo for Navigator he wanted. But it's just a cell network GPS. The Storm will have true GPS and the Verizon ads say it comes with BB Maps and Navigotor (which they say is better because of voice turn by turn, locates in buildings, etc.) I get that but is it possible that you could use only BB Maps without paying for the Navigator fee?

I would love to see them have the GPS truely "unlocked" and free of a monthly fee. However, I find it hard to believe that they would not charge a fee for this like they have been doing for quite some time know. As most have agreed, I can not see spending the money monthly that Verizon charges for their navigator service when you could buy a tom tom one for about $150.

Word is GPS will not be locked.

And look at Verizon's web site... it just lists VZNavigator.. NOT GPS for the Voyager which was my point.

That is what my little birdy had told me...

Big fat tears of joy are running down my face, as I glance over at the gates of hell. I see a snow flake in the distance.

hahahaha, I love this quote..

can anyone tell me if i purchase vzw navigator if the this unlocks the gps for any app or just vzw navigator. i want to use the gps for hiking etc., not just car. I hate to have to carry another handheld gps when my phone has a perfectly good one. i would gladly pay the 10/mo if it unlocks the gps and lets other apps use it.

Read above, specifically JSanders reply.

For the most part no. Buying VZ nav will not unlock for any 3rd party application.

I have spoken to many people and have been told it is not locked. I am really hoping this is true.

Correct Troy, it's not going to be locked. ;-)

I won't be the nay-sayer, but I only want to point out that if it is locked on the 8830, 8330 and 8130, how will VZW justify GPS being unlocked only on the Storm?

I am not so confident in VZW.

That was exactly my thought too. Non-Storm VZW customers won't be happy if they decide it to leave it unlocked on Storm. But, I guess stranger things have happened in the past...

They don't have to. Plus, it's a good way to entice customers to get the Storm. ;-)

It's wishful thinking, but JSanders has an excellent point (as always). If word gets out they unlocked one device, the folks will be "Storming" the Bastille to get out of paying $5-10/month for GPS.

My money is on locked.

The only rationalization I can see why VZW will unlock the GPS on the Storm is that if they truly want to compete with the iPhone, then they need to allow access to the GPS for all 3rd party applications that want to incorporate location based services. This would seemingly include Google Maps, Garmin, Tom Tom, etc. along with all of the other apps running on iPhone that use GPS.

I'm following this thread closely, because I'm thinking of jumping on the Storm bandwagon, but an unlocked GPS functionality is very important to me.

This discussion goes on with every new phone released by Verizon, it will be locked down, if you want it you'll have to purchase Navigator. We need to get over it. The only part that will work is when you dial 911 for an emergency, this way it allows the emergency crews to find you.

Talk about ripoffs...and you pay how much for onstar?...lol Seriously, I can't imagine anyone in the world ever paying for onstar unless maybe they didn't own a cell phone at all.

Sorry but, onstar does more than just give directions. Matter of fact on board pc's that are connected to the internet are going to be the standard option for most new vehicles in the near future. Whether it be onstar, bmw idrive or ms sync or the like. There is too much profit to be made from in car pcs that can give valuable information about the car and driver. (privacy issues here)..

Sorry but going off topic here.

Not a fantasy of mine but imagine going thorugh the local McDonalds with out talking to anyone. You simply place your order in your car after you have downloaded the McD's menu once you are in range of the store. You would either talk to your voice activated car pc or type in your order. When you get close to the McD's your order is being processed in a timely manor based off of your gps signal in your car. When you do arrive your order will be ready as soon as you pull up to the pickup window. Then you can pay with either cash (that is cash is even a form of payment or even avaliable), credit card or swipe your phone for payment.

LOL.. getting heart attacks will never be more efficient or easier!! Oh wait.. But my car will also inform McD's that I am not allowed any red meat. So my car will really save my life..

Of course the GPS will be locked down! This is SOP for Verizon. After all, they're the reason there's no WiFi on it. And, according to BGR, Verizon is also the reason there's no tri-band HSDPA.

The real reason the BlackBerry Storm doesnxxx8217;t have Wi-Fi or tri-band HSDPA : Boy Genius Report

Yet one more reason I use AT&T. I open Google Maps, tell GPS to start, and that's that. GPS, no extra fees.

GPS is Unlocked...
 

I've used BB Maps and pulled down GPS coordinates so that tells me that it is currently unlocked. I've been told that it will remain unlocked but I guess we'll see in a couple of weeks.

According to RIM's website:

GPS and BlackBerry Maps
"The BlackBerry Storm smartphone features built-in Global Positioning System (GPS) capabilities. Designed to work with BlackBerry® Maps and other location-based software, use it to help determine where you are and how to get to where you need to be..."

Being tha RIM used the term "GPS" leads me to believe that it will be unlocked. It also mentioned that Blackerry maps will be able to access the GPS cabability, which on my current 8330 it cannot. Another reason to be hopeful could be that they are referring to the Storm as a "world" phone- I believe that their world phones don't lock out the GPS being that VZNavigator doesn't work outside of the US (can someone with an 8830 verify this?)

GPS will be unlocked. Guaranteed. A-GPS though will cost.

Verizon can keep their "A" and I'll keep my $10/mo

Yeah, the latest I have been hearing is that GPS will be unlocked. You will be able to use Blackberry Maps for simple GPS like text turn by turn directions. However, if you want voice commands and other advanced GPS funtions you will have to pay the $10 a month for VZ Navigator. If this ends up being correct, I am happy enough to just use the standard GPS functions and keep the $10 a month in my pocket.

Hop2000, from what I understand aGPS just decreases the wait time required for the initial fix or helps get a fix if you don't have LOS with enough satellites as in a built up urban environment. I don't belive that my 5 year old 7520 had aGPS but I used several voice navigation programs successfully.

GPS is locked on my VZW 8830. I wouldn't hold my breath for the Storm GPS to be unlocked because VZW doesn't really care about their customers when it comes to making a buck (or in this case $10). If the Storm GPS is unlocked, then it would signify VZW actually listening to their customer base for a change, or they found a better way to make money. LOL!!!!!!:smile:

Wirelessly posted

I don't care if GPS is disabled by default. I only need gps in my car and my Garmin capabilities can't be matched by a bb. As for Verizon charging for the service, you get what you pay for. I pay for vzw's more expensive plans and services, then vzw takes more of the revenue and sinks it into r&d and consistently has the best network in the country.

Hopefully that is true. I was reading something on CNet that said that my above statement was the case for the upcoming release of the Storm. Again, this is ALL speculation until Verizon actually releases the device. It would be great if Verizon did this with the Storm. I just have a really hard time thinking they would unlock the GPS for this device and this device only when they have locked down every GPS phone to date. Only time will tell.

Verizon is advertising the Storm as another world phone. Trouble is VZnavigator does not work out of North America. If the GPS is locked I see another class action lawsuit due to not having service in Europe or elsewhere for that matter.

I wonder if my Freedom Keychain GPS will work with it?

Now where is Dawg when you need him?

ps that boy genius article is WRONG the Storm has HSUDPA!!

GPS is unlocked. You do not have to use or pay for VZnavigator. It is unlocked so you can use it out of the country.

It does, but uses a different band than what the NA 3G carriers use. So no 3G on Rogers/AT&T. Edge only.

Wirelessly posted

Just talked to my corporate rep. Gps will work with bbmaps, but if you want voice and turn by turn commands, you'll need vznav subscription.

Thats what I have been told as well.

Wirelessly posted

And imho, what the hell good is gps without turn by turn?

it will give you turn by turn just not voice turn by turn..

Must have misunderstood my rep - I thought she said it would only give you text directions, not active turn by turn. That will be cool though if it really does. Man, just can't wait to try this thing out!

Thats nice.. what about other GPS applications like telnav or garmin for bb.. Or did VZW lock it down to just bbmaps and vznav.

Verizon is dumb to lock GPS Navigation because they would sign up a lot more subscribers and sell thousands more phones at a lot more money than 10 bucks if they unlocked the GPS!

Just as I suspected.....
 

I was told in here earlier that the GPS for the Storm would be an OPEN GPS for any app. Guess not - see e-mail below.

Damn Verizon!



Dear XXXXXXXXX,



Good Morning. My name is Kristin, and I am delighted to assist you with the GPS feature on the new Blackberry Storm.



XXXX, I am sorry at this time the Blackberry Storm does not include Open GPS.



Though, the phone does offer the wonderful feature VZ Navigator. This is a portable GPS Navigation system for your wireless phone that includes the following features and benefits:



* Spoken directions: turn-by-turn directions help you locate an address or one of 14 million points of interest in the U.S., including hotels, golf courses, shopping centers, restaurants, hospitals, ATMs and more.

* Gas prices - find out how much a fill up will cost you.

* Mapping - view a map of your current location or other U.S. addresses.

* Customized routes- choose from the fastest, shortest and simplest routes.

* "Fastest" routes are selected based on estimated travel time. They are faster to drive but can be longer in distance.

* "Shortest" routes are selected based on total travel distance. They can take longer to drive due to speed limits.

* "Simplest" routes contain the fewest possible turns but may take longer to drive and may be longer in distance than other route options

* Auto redirection - if you miss a turn, VZ Navigator automatically downloads new directions and gets you back on track.



VZ Navigator has both monthly subscription and per day pricing options. The monthly subscription charge is $9.99. The daily charge is $2.99. The per-day option is good for 24 hours. You will be charged $1.99 per megabyte for the initial VZ Navigator download and any subsequent upgrades unless you have the $15 V CAST VPak feature or a Nationwide Premium Plan. You will not be billed for the actual use of the application.

.

The Monthly Subscription and per day pricing options are available via Get It Now on your wireless phone. VZ Navigator can be downloaded through the Get It Now Store, under the "Get Going" category.



Once the VZ Navigator application is accessed, it is easy to use. You can use the service to locate and get directions to a specific address you already have available or to use the Local Search function to locate a specific business or location from within a large database.



For additional information on VZ Navigator, please visit the following link:



Verizon Wireless: Tools & Applications Detail



You may also view a "How To" guide for VZ Navigator by visiting:



How to Use Guide: VZ Navigator<SMALL><SUP>SM</SUP></SMALL>



I make it my personal goal to provide the best customer service in the industry. I hope that I have done that for you today. We appreciate your business and thank you for using Verizon Wireless. Should you have additional questions or concerns, please reply to this e-mail.



Sincerely,



Kristin

Verizon Wireless

Customer Service

On 11/21/2008, everyone will know for sure if it is locked out or not. All of the people who have actually touched VZW demo units state that BBMaps and Google Maps work. It will not have "A-GPS" without a fee. From what I understand, "A-GPS" uses the cell towers to make assisted location from the towers along with the satellites. The "A-GPS" also includes voice turn-by-turn directions rather than just text.

You can call or e-mail another VZW rep and get a completely different answer. Wait until the final version of the phone is released and go check it out in the store.

As thorn stated, google maps on my 8830 works without a hitch, BUT it does not provide turn by turn directions. If you are wanting this feature, you'll need to get vzw nav added to your account.

Yes - it works on mine as well. But it uses triangulation between cell towers and is not a true GPS function and often 'pinpoints' you within 3000 m as opposed to within 15 m or so when the GPS actually works.

docew, what's the original question that you asked? This Verizon rep might be thinking that "Open GPS" is the name of an application.

good point. I asked if the Storm would have open GPS or GPS that was restricted to VZNav. So I don't think she was confused about that per se. She's apparently just a dolt. :razz:

I would send a follow-up response and say "If I download a GPS application like Google Maps, will it work on the Storm" just for clarification.

Depending on what youre expecting out of the application, you'll want to be specific. If working, for like location and searching, I presume that would work, since gmaps does that now on my 8830. As for turn by turn, nobody really knows until it comes out unless vzw could give a specific answer to that question, if google maps is loaded and it provides turn by turn directions, will i be able to use the storm's gps hardware to use that feature(turn by turn).

**Two same threads merged.**

Don't forget the Storm supports Geotagging of photos and uploading to face book and flikr...

So it can't be competely locked down...

Asked BGR amd he said that GPS was NOT locked down on the storm he reviewed and that it will be open for 3rd party apps. to use. Read his review and scroll to the Q and A section.

Got my storm today, and appears to be locked down. Darn it. Anyone else finding the same thing, or am I missing something. BBMaps triangulates me, but it WILL NOT USE THE BUILT IN GPS.

Go to Options>Advanced Options>GPS and set "GPS Services" to "Location On". Now go to Applications>BB Maps and hit the blackberry button. Select "Start GPS Navigation" and give it a minute to lock on to sats.

BBmaps uses my GPS. I can't get google maps to use it though.