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Old 01-20-2010, 03:21 PM   #41 (permalink)
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I'm sorry some of you are gay butt hurt about me saying something negative about RIM/ Blackberry. The point here is to be constructive.

Just to nip this one in the butt, let me me make it very clear. Security IS VERY IMPORTANT. So enough about that, since that is not the point I am trying to make.

The point is that if Apple makes a device that is equal to the Blackberry in a corporate environment (including security) and meets all of your business needs, but also has the multimedia features that the iPhone currently has, what would stop people from switching?

- Price? Through our corporate ATT account, we can get the iPhone 3Gs 16GB for roughly the same price as the Blackberry Curve

- Outlook / Exchange? Currently the only issues we experience are some calendar syncronization issues with the iPhone and Outlook

- Policies / Device Mangement? We can apply policies to the iPhone, including password restrictions and remote device wiping

- Device construction? This part is a negative, because the battery in the iPhone is not user replaceable. Screen breakage is an issue, but this just means people will buy more iPhones. The most common failure point that I have experienced on the Blackberry is the trackball, even though is works really well if handled properly and kept clean.

- Pin to Pin messaging / Blackberry Messenger? This is a big issue for me personally, but most people in our corporate environment don't use Blackberry messenger or pin to pin messaging, but we do have some top level exectutives who travel internationally. It is much more cost effective to get international Blackberry service for the purpose of receiving e-mail while abroad.

- Synchronization? Have you ever tried to sync a Blackberry on an Apple computer? It has never worked well. Blackberry's Mac version of the desktop manager came too late. Why is this important? Look at the sales trends for Apple computers, particularly in the corporate environment:

"Mac desktop sales did not budge in the corporate world despite the introduction of the new iMac and business-oriented Mac mini server in October. In overall sales, the iMac was the top-selling desktop in October, and it, along with the new Mac minis, helped Apple's overall desktop sales to increase 74 percent year over year." - Apple insider

Blackberry may get some relief, since Office 2010 will include Outlook, instead of Entourage...

One last item to mention, we have a marketing department with ~ 75 employees, of who 15 are iPhone users. The remaining users are Blackberry uers. In the longterm, all 75 users will be on iPhones. The reason for this move to iPhone is because they are able to use their iPhones as sales and marketing tools. The browser functionality and Facebook integration is much better than on the Blackberry. Our marketing department provides many services to customers, via direct marketing, website design, print, and social media. They are also very successful at what they do.

What does this mean? This means that 1/5th of our 500 smart phones users will be on the iPhone. Blackberry will still continue to be our primary device, but you can bet your bottom dollar that users won'tbe giving up their iPhones for Blackberry's.
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Old 01-20-2010, 03:28 PM   #42 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mondinga View Post
Just to nip this one in the butt
Oh, brother...
The expression is to 'nip in the bud'.

And just for shits & giggles... do you know what BES is? Have you worked with one before?
I only ask because you mention Policies and Device Management above, and I think BES might be relevant to that part of your oversimplified statement.

As far as government agencies go (federal, state, local, etc.), which of those do you see switching to iPhones or Android phones in the future? Department of Defense? Homeland Security? Just curious.
How about military? Do you have any predictions for those types of environments?
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Old 01-20-2010, 03:30 PM   #43 (permalink)
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This thread is giving me a headache.
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Old 01-20-2010, 03:38 PM   #44 (permalink)
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Yes, I know what a BES is. We are running Blacberry Manager 4.1.7.17.

Thank you for the correction the expression, although it's not relevant.

If the thread is giving you a headache, then why did you respond?
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Old 01-20-2010, 03:41 PM   #45 (permalink)
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Wirelessly posted (My blond BlackBerry)

Its a lot like a train wreck. Shouldn't watch, but can't look away.
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Old 01-20-2010, 03:41 PM   #46 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mondinga View Post
I'm sorry some of you are gay butt hurt about me saying something negative about RIM/ Blackberry. The point here is to be constructive.
No need to use offensive statements.

Quote:
Just to nip this one in the butt, let me me make it very clear. Security IS VERY IMPORTANT. So enough about that, since that is not the point I am trying to make.
That's funny, your original post stated that security doesn't matter. It's all about the coolness factor and multimedia. Do I need to quote you on that AGAIN?!

Quote:
The point is that if Apple makes a device that is equal to the Blackberry in a corporate environment (including security) and meets all of your business needs, but also has the multimedia features that the iPhone currently has, what would stop people from switching?
iPhone is equal to BlackBerry in security?! Please. Show me where they are equal.

Quote:
- Outlook / Exchange? Currently the only issues we experience are some calendar syncronization issues with the iPhone and Outlook
Not ever organization uses outlook. have you heard of Lotus Notes or Novell GroupWise? Try finding a good solution for synching an iPhone with GroupWise. There are solutions available, but they are far from perfect.

Quote:
- Policies / Device Mangement? We can apply policies to the iPhone, including password restrictions and remote device wiping
I haven't used the ActiveSync policies so I am not sure how they can compare to the BES policies, but I would imagine that the advantage would go to BES.

Quote:
- Pin to Pin messaging / Blackberry Messenger? This is a big issue for me personally, but most people in our corporate environment don't use Blackberry messenger or pin to pin messaging, but we do have some top level exectutives who travel internationally. It is much more cost effective to get international Blackberry service for the purpose of receiving e-mail while abroad.
The BES can send PIN messages to the devices and communicate that way. This can be very useful if you're experiencing issues with the mail servers and need to alert the BB users of the issue.


Quote:
One last item to mention, we have a marketing department with ~ 75 employees, of who 15 are iPhone users. The remaining users are Blackberry uers. In the longterm, all 75 users will be on iPhones. The reason for this move to iPhone is because they are able to use their iPhones as sales and marketing tools. The browser functionality and Facebook integration is much better than on the Blackberry. Our marketing department provides many services to customers, via direct marketing, website design, print, and social media. They are also very successful at what they do.

That's great. I am glad it suits your marketing department's needs. However, that doesn't mean it suits everyone's needs. What part of that don't you understand? To each their own. Your millage may vary, etc...

Quote:
What does this mean? This means that 1/5th of our 500 smart phones users will be on the iPhone. Blackberry will still continue to be our primary device, but you can bet your bottom dollar that users won'tbe giving up their iPhones for Blackberry's.
1/5 iPhone to 4/5 BlackBerry. Yeah, they are going down. Just because the iPhone works well for your business, again, that doesn't mean it suits everyone's needs.
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Last edited by jsconyers : 01-20-2010 at 03:44 PM.
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Old 01-20-2010, 03:45 PM   #47 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juwaack68 View Post
Wirelessly posted (My blond BlackBerry)

Its a lot like a train wreck. Shouldn't watch, but can't look away.
Full throttle, more steam, make choo choo train sounds!!!

Yes, it is fun to watch assuming you are far enough away not to get hit by the flying parts after the trains crash into each other.
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Old 01-20-2010, 03:45 PM   #48 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mondinga View Post
Yes, I know what a BES is. We are running Blacberry Manager 4.1.7.17.
Actually, BlackBerry Manager isn't BES. It's just a tool to manage BES... but I'm sure you knew that.

Look, it's clear that you're under informed and you're making a broad sweeping generalization that RIM is a "sinking ship" because it's simply not cool enough for the masses.

My point, obviously, is that your generalization is not only wrong, but also laughable.

Would RIM like to cater to the consumer market and continue competition with Apple and Google? Of course.
Do they need to do that for survival? Definitely not.

RIM's core target market is corporate and government. In those arenas, they simply can't be touched. I don't give a crap how many apps you have in your iPhone or Android App Store.

This whole debate is silly. Every company, agency, and person is different and has different needs. They'll continue to use the tools that are best fit for their particular needs.
They'll likely be a need for BlackBerry for a long time to come.
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Old 01-20-2010, 03:51 PM   #49 (permalink)
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This thread is a sinking ship.

How is a company that had record sales last year in Q3 a sinking ship?

Quote:
RIM being a thriving and profitable company is hardly a new story -- as confirmed by third quarter earnings of $628 million off the back of a record-breaking 10 million units sold -- but the way it's making its money seems to be changing. More than 80 percent of new BlackBerry subscribers in the quarter were private customers, marking a distinct shift -- maybe not away from the corporate arena, but definitely toward embracing the consumer market. In an effort to further consolidate its global empire, RIM has also announced a partnership with China Telecom to go along with its earlier China Mobile deal. Oh, and there's the small matter of the 75 millionth BlackBerry being sold, but we're sure the cool cats up in BB HQ aren't counting handsets, they're probably too busy rolling around in piles of money.

I can't post the link yet, but engadget is the source.
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Old 01-20-2010, 03:52 PM   #50 (permalink)
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Wirelessly posted (My blond BlackBerry)

Government...oh, that would be why our president has a BlackBerry and not an iPhone.



I'm sure his IT department scoffed, LOUDLY, and anyone who suggested he get an iPhone.
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Old 01-20-2010, 03:52 PM   #51 (permalink)
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Good point and here's and article that is only 5 months old.

Fortune names RIM fastest growing company... in the world -- Engadget

Definitely sounds like they're sinking. Actually, according to the OP the article should read "RIM: the fastest sinking ship...in the world"
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Old 01-20-2010, 04:04 PM   #52 (permalink)
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I think the OP got RIM confused with Tiger Woods.

Tiger is a sinking shit, right?
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Old 01-20-2010, 04:05 PM   #53 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsconyers View Post
No need to use offensive statements.

jsconyers - Make sure you apply this response to all of the other people who responded to my thread post that had nothing constructive to say. Let's keep it fair.



That's funny, your original post stated that security doesn't matter. It's all about the coolness factor and multimedia. Do I need to quote you on that AGAIN?!

You can quote me all day long, but the average user doesn't think about security.

iPhone is equal to BlackBerry in security?! Please. Show me where they are equal.

I didn't say the iPhone and Blackberry were equal in security. If you read more closely, you will see that I said "If". Did you see that?

Not ever organization uses outlook. have you heard of Lotus Notes or Novell GroupWise? Try finding a good solution for synching an iPhone with GroupWise. There are solutions available, but they are far from perfect.

I have heard of these products and I feel sorry for their users.

I haven't used the ActiveSync policies so I am not sure how they can compare to the BES policies, but I would imagine that the advantage would go to BES.

Yes, the advantage goes to the BES, but it also depends on how in depth your security policies are in your corporate environment.

We apply the following for all approve smart devices:
- Password contraints
- Device wipe after x invalid attempts
- Remote wipe
- None of our devices encrypted at the device level, including Blackberry and iPhone

The BES can send PIN messages to the devices and communicate that way. This can be very useful if you're experiencing issues with the mail servers and need to alert the BB users of the issue.

This is a very cool feature, which is one of my selling points for the Blackberry, but if Apple develops a feature comparable to this, then there would be one less reason for staying on the Blackberry.

That's great. I am glad it suits your marketing department's needs. However, that doesn't mean it suits everyone's needs. What part of that don't you understand? To each their own. Your millage may vary, etc...

I agree with you. I was merely trying to give an example that I can attest to. I don't spend all day researching sales stats, but I do hear what my customers want. Given the option, a large percentage of our Blackberry users would hapily switch to an iPhone. From a support standpoint, I prefer to stick with one device / platform.

1/5 iPhone to 4/5 BlackBerry. Yeah, they are going down. Just because the iPhone works well for your business, again, that doesn't mean it suits everyone's needs.
thx..
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Old 01-20-2010, 04:13 PM   #54 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mondinga View Post
I'm sorry some of you are gay butt hurt about me saying something negative about RIM/ Blackberry. The point here is to be constructive.
No, the point for you it would seem is to waffle about your point. First it's "security doesn't matter" then it's "security is important." Add to that your juvenile reference to "gay butts" whatever those are, and... well... that begs the question: just what the hell is wrong with you?

Quote:
Just to nip this one in the butt...
Is this another reference to gay butts?

Quote:
The point is that if Apple makes a device that is equal to the Blackberry in a corporate environment (including security) and meets all of your business needs, but also has the multimedia features that the iPhone currently has, what would stop people from switching?
Nothing? Everything? Who the hell knows? You certainly don't. That much has been proven over and over again.

Quote:
- Device construction? This part is a negative, because the battery in the iPhone is not user replaceable. Screen breakage is an issue, but this just means people will buy more iPhones. The most common failure point that I have experienced on the Blackberry is the trackball, even though is works really well if handled properly and kept clean.
Wait... let me see if I can follow your unbelievably horrid logic here. Are you actually saying that if BlackBerries have faults then RIM is doomed, but if iPhones have faults, people will just buy more iPhones? I've got to ask again: just what the hell is wrong with you?

Quote:
Why is this important? Look at the sales trends for Apple computers, particularly in the corporate environment:

"Mac desktop sales did not budge in the corporate world despite the introduction of the new iMac and business-oriented Mac mini server in October. In overall sales, the iMac was the top-selling desktop in October, and it, along with the new Mac minis, helped Apple's overall desktop sales to increase 74 percent year over year." - Apple insider
Wait... am I reading this correctly? Your offer of proof for the iPhone as a serious business tool (and RIMs missing of the Mac boat) is a reference to pathetic corporate sales of Apple desktops? Really?

Did you even read the quote you provided? Can you even read the quote you provided?

Quote:
What does this mean? This means that 1/5th of our 500 smart phones users will be on the iPhone.
Holy crap! One-fifth! Really? Damn it all... it's time for me to sell everything! One-fifth! You do realize that one-fifth is closer to 0% than it is to 50%, right? In other words... who gives a damn about one-fifth of your phones being iPhones?

Quote:
Blackberry will still continue to be our primary device, but you can bet your bottom dollar that users won'tbe giving up their iPhones for Blackberry's.
And so, we come to the conclusion of yet another failed attempt at... well, I don't know what the hell you are trying to prove, but you failed nevertheless. That much is clear. After all of that, you actually admit that BlackBerries are still the primary devices for your company.

You have serious issues.
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Old 01-20-2010, 04:33 PM   #55 (permalink)
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This calls for much more then popcorn.
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Old 01-20-2010, 04:48 PM   #56 (permalink)
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Are those authentic hot wings, or wimpy wings looking good for the coolness factor?
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Old 01-20-2010, 05:31 PM   #57 (permalink)
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Jsanders, I think with those wings it's more about the "Hotness Factor"




Yeah I know, bad pun. *makes herself a whiskey and coke and sits back*
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Old 01-20-2010, 05:43 PM   #58 (permalink)
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Who took my can of Troll spray????
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Old 01-20-2010, 06:13 PM   #59 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by juwaack68 View Post
Delicious!!
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Old 01-20-2010, 06:14 PM   #60 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Who took my can of Troll spray????
Someone tried to use it to stop the Rapoodles from multiplying. You may have to get a stronger weapon for this one Official BBF Troll Patrol Officer Lunkhead.
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