Just joined the Verizon 8830 ownership group(ie).

I was surprised that the gps was locked but checking the box, it does not make any statements about gps being available. Did they change the packaging since initially offering it.

And a question - might Verizon be getting what I'll call a CLICK fee (like when Google gets you to a site) when folks use their gps-software to find a restaurant or other business?

Regarding a similar case - Creative's 30gig Zen Vision M originally shipped with a RECORDER that could record the built-in FM radio. Apparently under pressure from the Recording Industry Creative issues a firmware update that removed the Recording feature. Lots of screaming about the removal of an advertised feature. Creative maintained that copyright was involved in the Fm-recorder (even those recording from radio has been going on for decades). Creative finally caved and its next firmware restored the function. I don't know if any law suit was filed but a number were threatened.

I hope verizon graciously restores the function.

I think this train has already left station.

Smfh

Why do you guys stay with verizon if you know up front that they are going to screw you over

I do not consider myself as being screwed over. I have a great device a great network. I did all the research prior to purchasing. I dont need a crappy cellphone GPS I have a nice gramin in my truck. So how are they screwing me?

Why do you bash Verizon when you are a ATT customer.

Nor do I feel screwed over -- I agree with Dawg. VZW works well for me.

Well, frankly, I am pretty satisfied with Verizon but I also don't quite believe in "love it or leave it" philosophies. So I believe Verizon can be criticized for locking the gps that is included in the phone unless you pay an additional $10/month.

Do you know which firm is?

It's the firm listed in the complaint, see the first post in this thread.

I dont know if a class action suit will really solve the problem...it will just happen again in the future

I think advertising the BB's built in GPS and a Optional secure privacy VZ navigator is a good Idea. all they have to do to sell more Navigator is Harp on the fact someone could track you using just the built in GPS Imagine how much RIM would complain if they said that.

Why cant anyone just hack the BB's so they have the GPS reenabled?

Here we go again. Grabbing my bag of popcorn.

I am waiting for the hack...., Maybe try a Buffer Overflow

no no no Troy

gotta use a Buffer underflow

Wirelessly posted

What about a turtle wax buffer?

Note: tried this and all I got was a nice shine on my BB

hmm did you try glosshaus, leaves a beautiful shine, or try a machine glaze :P

no no no you have to use a belt sander with 100 grit sandpaper and then go up from there.

Is the chip/antenna for the GPS still being powered even though its disabled on your device? If it is, and you have no access to that feature, you're battery life is being infringed upon by a feature you have no access to. If it can't be turned off and use ZERO power. Then it shouldn't be disabled via software.

My 2 cents

Wirelessly posted

I bashed them for vz tactics. I have both vz / att. Their are things that bother me paying full market price for sub products. Also even though its on their network its your device. That bothers me they can mod devices into what they want. I would understand if I rent the phone its their phone they can do what they wish. Not something you buy. I still think this is a bs vz will cont doing what they want.

This is hogwash pure and simple. A GPS is a receiver, not a transmitter. There is absolutely no merit to the idea that somehow, just maybe, if you are using a GPS your smartphone may suddenly start broadcasted GPS related information about you in a manner that other cell-phone users or internet users could receive, interpret, and use. Thats ridiculous. Thats like saying maybe, just maybe, the FM receiver in my car that I listen to the radio with, might suddenly start broadcasting on a frequency that someone else with some specialized hardware might pick up, and not only pick up but be able to interpret as usable data representing my location on the road. Completely ridiculous.

Yea sure, VZW is protecting me from myself, from having a virus on my unhackable blackberry that is specifically designed to tell the hacker in China what street im driving around in Texas. Oh please let me pay $10/month to VZW to make sure that never happens.

I hope someone writes a virus specifically for the VZNavigator software to do just this, to show what a charade this whole nonsense is.

EXACTLY. I could understand if i was LEASING the phone, but im not. I BOUGHT IT. I OWN IT. IT'S MINE. How dare they say what I can and cant do with something i purchased. Thats like the Nissan dealership saying I cant install satellite radio in the car that I bought for $30,000. B/c they have a deal with XM and only want me using XM radio in my.

Uviuar -- Watch your language, please. I have asked politely.

This more akin, in your example, to buying the $30K auto with an XM radio installed, and your dealer then requiring that you pay the monthly toll to use it.

Uviuar...the GPS may be a receiver only but the phone is a transmitter. There are many apps out there that will transmit your location to the internet for your friends to see. That being the reason Verizon cripples the GPS may be hogwash, but it's not impossible either.

Sorry for the language. Anyway, charging me a toll to use the satellite radio is like charging a toll to use satellite television. Of course I have to pay for that, my payments cover all the costs associated with putting the satellite network in place and providing content across said network. So exactly what is Verizon's involvement with the GPS satellite system the US Department of Defense put into space? What costs are Verizon recovering by charging me to use the hardware in a phone that they didnt pay for? The U.S. put those satellites into orbit for military reasons, but decided for the time being that civilians could use them totally free of charge.

Why doesnt verizon just disable the built in camera while theyre at it, and charge me $50 to use a verizon camera application "so the camera does not accidentally go off and take unwanted photographs." Because clearly that is such a threat that I cant be given the choice whether I want to be protected or not, and need to prevent the off-chance that my camera accidentally goes off while I take it out of my pocket and it catches me on a bad hair day and simultaneously then decides to upload that picture to CNN who then put it on their homepage as funny ugly guy of the week and my whole life is ruined and I commit suicide and my family files a lawsuit against Verizon for not protecting me against this very event! Perfectly logical, rational fear. But I digress....

Nonsense.
Verizon is providing the wireless network that your device is attached to, which is needed to download the maps for the navigation software.
As explained earlier, which you conveniently overlooked, the GPS receiver in the device is already capable of receiving the GPS coordinates from the satellites. You still need a data network to do anything useful with the location data from the GPS.
The maps themselves don't get sent to the device from the GPS satellites... they come over Verizon's data network.

This is different than a standalone Garmin or Tom Tom, where the maps are stored locally on the actual device, and do not need a data network to download them on the fly.

Please, let it go. You don't know what you're talking about.

You can argue yourself blue in the face over it. I suggest you join the "class action" litigation mentioned above.

XM and Sirus do lease space, expend their technology to provide the data which they charge you for, regardless. Verizon provides the data bandwidth by which you would access maps to use your GPS location. Same analogy to me.

I don't really care. But if you have Verizon as your carrier, have you contacted them? As far as these forums are concerned, several members have been banned from membership here over just this issue, because I assume they feel they can seek to vent their anger here. Find a Verizon forum, it could be a more appropriate venue. The BlackBerry is not disabling your GPS, Verizon is.

Good luck.

Not to belabor this thread but your comments above are not exactly correct. There are gps programs for the BB's that do NOT need data. But they DO NEED a gps. Verizon has interfered with the needed gps, driving up the cost of an already costly phone by requiring a separate puck by those who want to use these NON-DATA gps programs. So using a gps does not necessarily require using Verizon's data. Besides, I believe I paid for UNLIMITED data and come no where near using even a fraction of it currently.

Sorry all for beating a dead horse here, I realize this topic was a bit old to be reviving. It wasnt until recently that I became aware of this issue, and that our company would be switching to verizon, and would lose all functionality out of the fantastic GPS integrated into our curve's that we have been freely enjoying thus far. Just really stings to see google maps, amaze, and vundoo just go out the window by some monopolistic attempt to extort users into paying even more money. I also became incensed to see people actually defending verizon's stance here, even making excuses for them such as one of my last detractors responses (that somehow VZ is recovering costs of on their data plans by charging me to use the GPS? I easily use more data in a day just doing general web surfing with an unlimited data plan that I do streaming maps, there is no relation here).

Anyway I'm done with the topic. I will buy a bluetooth GPS puck and ripoff verizon by consuming cellular bandwidth through streaming maps on my data plan. Oh wait, I'm already paying for that, it's called an UNLIMITED DATA PLAN. Hope I get some use out of it before they block Bluetooth functionality to protect me from someone hacking into the bluetooth interface of my phone (something FAR more likely to occur than my GPS being hacked).

When GPS launched on Sprint, the ONLY option that you had was TeleNav, and it was $10 a month paid to the carrier. This is no different than that. If you dont like VZW dont use it. If its a business decision convince them otherwise. Complaining is going to really do nothing.

And, you know what--knowing someone's perspective helps me appreciate your opinion--I would be quite pissed also.

We're all different, thank heavens.

Enjoy.

Agree 100%

On that note, as I just purchased an 8330 from VZW today, my lunchtime errand tomorrow will be to rectify that. -and I thank you all. After reading the thread, I realize that I must exercise my three-day, scot-free return and perform a "vote de pied". I will be more discriminating with my competitive purchase.

I just had to register and tell you all about it...

To those criticizing Verizon- BRAVO.
To those defending Verizon- BRAVO.

Your debate has borne successful fruit, even if you DID singe the moderators' eyebrows a little.

I'll be back.

ah, welcome to the Forums.

Enjoy!

Did anyone actually read the complaint closely? If you look at the 9th line of page 2 (by the 13th line marker), it states that the 8830 is manufactured by Blackberry. Last time I checked, Blackberry was a phone and not a listed company. The Blackberry 8830 is made by RIM. I will grant you that Blackberry is generally accepted as a company name, although I don't believe it is, nor can I find it listed anywhere... (of course, I could be just totally wrong here)

JMHO

you may have just cracked this case...

Liitle details like that can get the suit nullified in a hurry.

Although each blog has merit, we must remember that if you purchase a product that states that it will do something and it doesn't perform to our standards, then we must take action and return it within the 30 days. Of course, Verizonwireless will have the final say when everyone returns their phones and will act one of several ways. 1. Remove the phones. 2. Remove the service. 3. Allow the service. Or 4. Notice that everyone else is going with other providers for their service. They already have us in their grasps anyways by stating an outragious disconnect fee so they really could care less. Just like making you wait to get a small discount when a new customer can get the same phone for free.

Does anyone know how this class action finished.. or if it finished?

Cyber Law Internet and Technology Law Firm | Update on Verizon Blackberry 8830 Case | Arbitration, Verizon, Blackberry, Procedural, Approximately, Fifteen, September

Looks like September 14, 2009 is the scheduled trial date...

As I pointed out earlier in this thread, if anyone (including verizon) would really read the complaint, I am sure they could get it thrown out. Amazing that lawyers who probably charge $1000 and hour haven't seen the red flag in the lawsuit.

It's not really much of a red flag. It's up to them to bring that issue up much earlier, they haven't. Besides, Here's what would happen 1) Verizon would file a Summary motion to have the case thrown out due to the suit naming Blackberry (the product) rather than RIM (the manufacturer). There would be time for the responsees and reply'sto be filed. While that is happening, the Plaintiff would file a motion to amend the complaint, so as to clarify the parties, chances are it would have been allowed, Verizon most likely cannot prove how they would be prejudiced. Why would they bother?

The analogies that have been thrown out still don't really get to, what I see as, the major issue. I see it more like this; How would everyone feel if their phone company disabled the Messenger or Pin capabilities? I see these as being more damaging to Verizon's bottom line than gps and both are features that come with the phone from the manufacturer to be used by the consumer. I think it's a lousy thing to do to the customer, but it's also not something that I value as a service so I'm not that concerned. I get enough out of the gps by the triangulation to suit my needs. I've been able to use it enough, if I really wanted a gps, I'd buy one. I don't, so I haven't.

By the way, when I bought my curve or my pearl, I was only told that they had gps, nothing more/nothing less. I'm certainly not going to dump good celular service because I'm mad about gps. I bought the phone for other uses and those are great. As for the debate over locating me through gps... Just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean that they aren't out to get you...

Hello everyone,

I want to input some oppinion here, related to locating your phone's geographical location. Last year I have developed a small location based software, which was using the celltowers to give you an approximate location. People would "tag" new cells with a relevant name (street, school, etc). It was pretty nice.

I used to get email each day from people wanting to use the service to track their wives and girlfriends. It wasn't doable, and was outside our scope. I usually adviced them to grow up.

The idea is, that if the mobile operator wants to know your location, they can find that out with a very high precission. There is no high-tech involved here, or any conspiracy.
If any of you has ever been a radio-amateur, you know that everything that sends out an RF signal, can be located.

--------------
Recently I have tried Google Maps on my BB 7130g and a Windows Mobile SPV M3100.
It located my position based on cell towers with a staggering precission. The precission was under 50 meters in an urban area. Knowing the tech involved, I asked myself a question. Since when do mobile operators give out cell tower location info to Google?

I got in touch with the local operators to request that info and they told me it's highly classified. All I wanted was a simple CSV, with the closes street name to a tower (not actual coordinates).

Google quietly received that info.

Do you want privacy? Dream on.
There is no such thing, unless you turn off your computer, cellphone and everything else.

-----
I was a victim of a privacy breach and felt the effects to a maximum extent. I turned it around and realized that all I needed was a pen, paper, and a lot of thinking, to figure out what two people were doing in the past months, and what their next steps are. No high-tech involved.

Sorry for being a bit off-topic