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Old 06-24-2008, 08:41 AM   #61 (permalink)
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Uviuar -- Watch your language, please. I have asked politely.

This more akin, in your example, to buying the $30K auto with an XM radio installed, and your dealer then requiring that you pay the monthly toll to use it.

Last edited by JSanders : 06-24-2008 at 08:44 AM.
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Old 06-24-2008, 08:44 AM   #62 (permalink)
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Uviuar...the GPS may be a receiver only but the phone is a transmitter. There are many apps out there that will transmit your location to the internet for your friends to see. That being the reason Verizon cripples the GPS may be hogwash, but it's not impossible either.
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Old 06-24-2008, 02:55 PM   #63 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JSanders View Post
Uviuar -- Watch your language, please. I have asked politely.

This more akin, in your example, to buying the $30K auto with an XM radio installed, and your dealer then requiring that you pay the monthly toll to use it.
Sorry for the language. Anyway, charging me a toll to use the satellite radio is like charging a toll to use satellite television. Of course I have to pay for that, my payments cover all the costs associated with putting the satellite network in place and providing content across said network. So exactly what is Verizon's involvement with the GPS satellite system the US Department of Defense put into space? What costs are Verizon recovering by charging me to use the hardware in a phone that they didnt pay for? The U.S. put those satellites into orbit for military reasons, but decided for the time being that civilians could use them totally free of charge.

Why doesnt verizon just disable the built in camera while theyre at it, and charge me $50 to use a verizon camera application "so the camera does not accidentally go off and take unwanted photographs." Because clearly that is such a threat that I cant be given the choice whether I want to be protected or not, and need to prevent the off-chance that my camera accidentally goes off while I take it out of my pocket and it catches me on a bad hair day and simultaneously then decides to upload that picture to CNN who then put it on their homepage as funny ugly guy of the week and my whole life is ruined and I commit suicide and my family files a lawsuit against Verizon for not protecting me against this very event! Perfectly logical, rational fear. But I digress....

Last edited by uviuar : 06-24-2008 at 03:18 PM.
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Old 06-24-2008, 03:04 PM   #64 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by uviuar View Post
There is absolutely zero cost expense to verizon when they acquire a prebuilt cell-phone from RIM's warehouse that has a gps built inside that verizon needs to recover.
Nonsense.
Verizon is providing the wireless network that your device is attached to, which is needed to download the maps for the navigation software.
As explained earlier, which you conveniently overlooked, the GPS receiver in the device is already capable of receiving the GPS coordinates from the satellites. You still need a data network to do anything useful with the location data from the GPS.
The maps themselves don't get sent to the device from the GPS satellites... they come over Verizon's data network.

This is different than a standalone Garmin or Tom Tom, where the maps are stored locally on the actual device, and do not need a data network to download them on the fly.

Please, let it go. You don't know what you're talking about.
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Old 06-24-2008, 03:06 PM   #65 (permalink)
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You can argue yourself blue in the face over it. I suggest you join the "class action" litigation mentioned above.

XM and Sirus do lease space, expend their technology to provide the data which they charge you for, regardless. Verizon provides the data bandwidth by which you would access maps to use your GPS location. Same analogy to me.

I don't really care. But if you have Verizon as your carrier, have you contacted them? As far as these forums are concerned, several members have been banned from membership here over just this issue, because I assume they feel they can seek to vent their anger here. Find a Verizon forum, it could be a more appropriate venue. The BlackBerry is not disabling your GPS, Verizon is.

Good luck.
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Old 06-24-2008, 07:26 PM   #66 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by penguin3107 View Post
Nonsense.
Verizon is providing the wireless network that your device is attached to, which is needed to download the maps for the navigation software.
As explained earlier, which you conveniently overlooked, the GPS receiver in the device is already capable of receiving the GPS coordinates from the satellites. You still need a data network to do anything useful with the location data from the GPS.
The maps themselves don't get sent to the device from the GPS satellites... they come over Verizon's data network.

This is different than a standalone Garmin or Tom Tom, where the maps are stored locally on the actual device, and do not need a data network to download them on the fly.

Please, let it go. You don't know what you're talking about.
Not to belabor this thread but your comments above are not exactly correct. There are gps programs for the BB's that do NOT need data. But they DO NEED a gps. Verizon has interfered with the needed gps, driving up the cost of an already costly phone by requiring a separate puck by those who want to use these NON-DATA gps programs. So using a gps does not necessarily require using Verizon's data. Besides, I believe I paid for UNLIMITED data and come no where near using even a fraction of it currently.
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Old 06-25-2008, 09:12 AM   #67 (permalink)
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Sorry all for beating a dead horse here, I realize this topic was a bit old to be reviving. It wasnt until recently that I became aware of this issue, and that our company would be switching to verizon, and would lose all functionality out of the fantastic GPS integrated into our curve's that we have been freely enjoying thus far. Just really stings to see google maps, amaze, and vundoo just go out the window by some monopolistic attempt to extort users into paying even more money. I also became incensed to see people actually defending verizon's stance here, even making excuses for them such as one of my last detractors responses (that somehow VZ is recovering costs of on their data plans by charging me to use the GPS? I easily use more data in a day just doing general web surfing with an unlimited data plan that I do streaming maps, there is no relation here).

Anyway I'm done with the topic. I will buy a bluetooth GPS puck and ripoff verizon by consuming cellular bandwidth through streaming maps on my data plan. Oh wait, I'm already paying for that, it's called an UNLIMITED DATA PLAN. Hope I get some use out of it before they block Bluetooth functionality to protect me from someone hacking into the bluetooth interface of my phone (something FAR more likely to occur than my GPS being hacked).
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Old 06-25-2008, 09:15 AM   #68 (permalink)
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When GPS launched on Sprint, the ONLY option that you had was TeleNav, and it was $10 a month paid to the carrier. This is no different than that. If you dont like VZW dont use it. If its a business decision convince them otherwise. Complaining is going to really do nothing.
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Old 06-25-2008, 09:35 AM   #69 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uviuar View Post
Sorry all for beating a dead horse here, I realize this topic was a bit old to be reviving. It wasnt until recently that I became aware of this issue, and that our company would be switching to verizon, and would lose all functionality out of the fantastic GPS integrated into our curve's that we have been freely enjoying thus far.
And, you know what--knowing someone's perspective helps me appreciate your opinion--I would be quite pissed also.

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Originally Posted by uviuar View Post
I also became incensed to see people actually defending verizon's stance here
We're all different, thank heavens.

Enjoy.
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Old 06-25-2008, 09:44 AM   #70 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sith_Apprentice View Post
If you dont like VZW dont use it. If its a business decision convince them otherwise. Complaining is going to really do nothing.
Agree 100%
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Old 07-08-2008, 11:57 PM   #71 (permalink)
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On that note, as I just purchased an 8330 from VZW today, my lunchtime errand tomorrow will be to rectify that. -and I thank you all. After reading the thread, I realize that I must exercise my three-day, scot-free return and perform a "vote de pied". I will be more discriminating with my competitive purchase.

I just had to register and tell you all about it...

To those criticizing Verizon- BRAVO.
To those defending Verizon- BRAVO.

Your debate has borne successful fruit, even if you DID singe the moderators' eyebrows a little.

I'll be back.

Last edited by Geequeg : 07-09-2008 at 12:37 AM. Reason: misspelling
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Old 07-08-2008, 11:59 PM   #72 (permalink)
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ah, welcome to the Forums.

Enjoy!
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Old 07-09-2008, 07:01 AM   #73 (permalink)
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Did anyone actually read the complaint closely? If you look at the 9th line of page 2 (by the 13th line marker), it states that the 8830 is manufactured by Blackberry. Last time I checked, Blackberry was a phone and not a listed company. The Blackberry 8830 is made by RIM. I will grant you that Blackberry is generally accepted as a company name, although I don't believe it is, nor can I find it listed anywhere... (of course, I could be just totally wrong here)

JMHO
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Old 07-09-2008, 12:35 PM   #74 (permalink)
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you may have just cracked this case...
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Old 07-09-2008, 01:45 PM   #75 (permalink)
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Liitle details like that can get the suit nullified in a hurry.
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Old 07-13-2008, 11:06 PM   #76 (permalink)
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Although each blog has merit, we must remember that if you purchase a product that states that it will do something and it doesn't perform to our standards, then we must take action and return it within the 30 days. Of course, Verizonwireless will have the final say when everyone returns their phones and will act one of several ways. 1. Remove the phones. 2. Remove the service. 3. Allow the service. Or 4. Notice that everyone else is going with other providers for their service. They already have us in their grasps anyways by stating an outragious disconnect fee so they really could care less. Just like making you wait to get a small discount when a new customer can get the same phone for free.
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Old 07-24-2008, 09:08 PM   #77 (permalink)
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Does anyone know how this class action finished.. or if it finished?
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Old 08-18-2008, 10:34 PM   #78 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sespringer View Post
Does anyone know how this class action finished.. or if it finished?

Cyber Law Internet and Technology Law Firm | Update on Verizon Blackberry 8830 Case | Arbitration, Verizon, Blackberry, Procedural, Approximately, Fifteen, September

Looks like September 14, 2009 is the scheduled trial date...

As I pointed out earlier in this thread, if anyone (including verizon) would really read the complaint, I am sure they could get it thrown out. Amazing that lawyers who probably charge $1000 and hour haven't seen the red flag in the lawsuit.
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Old 08-20-2008, 01:23 PM   #79 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phantomtech View Post
As I pointed out earlier in this thread, if anyone (including verizon) would really read the complaint, I am sure they could get it thrown out. Amazing that lawyers who probably charge $1000 and hour haven't seen the red flag in the lawsuit.
It's not really much of a red flag. It's up to them to bring that issue up much earlier, they haven't. Besides, Here's what would happen 1) Verizon would file a Summary motion to have the case thrown out due to the suit naming Blackberry (the product) rather than RIM (the manufacturer). There would be time for the responsees and reply'sto be filed. While that is happening, the Plaintiff would file a motion to amend the complaint, so as to clarify the parties, chances are it would have been allowed, Verizon most likely cannot prove how they would be prejudiced. Why would they bother?

The analogies that have been thrown out still don't really get to, what I see as, the major issue. I see it more like this; How would everyone feel if their phone company disabled the Messenger or Pin capabilities? I see these as being more damaging to Verizon's bottom line than gps and both are features that come with the phone from the manufacturer to be used by the consumer. I think it's a lousy thing to do to the customer, but it's also not something that I value as a service so I'm not that concerned. I get enough out of the gps by the triangulation to suit my needs. I've been able to use it enough, if I really wanted a gps, I'd buy one. I don't, so I haven't.

By the way, when I bought my curve or my pearl, I was only told that they had gps, nothing more/nothing less. I'm certainly not going to dump good celular service because I'm mad about gps. I bought the phone for other uses and those are great. As for the debate over locating me through gps... Just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean that they aren't out to get you...
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Old 10-08-2008, 04:37 AM   #80 (permalink)
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Hello everyone,

I want to input some oppinion here, related to locating your phone's geographical location. Last year I have developed a small location based software, which was using the celltowers to give you an approximate location. People would "tag" new cells with a relevant name (street, school, etc). It was pretty nice.

I used to get email each day from people wanting to use the service to track their wives and girlfriends. It wasn't doable, and was outside our scope. I usually adviced them to grow up.

The idea is, that if the mobile operator wants to know your location, they can find that out with a very high precission. There is no high-tech involved here, or any conspiracy.
If any of you has ever been a radio-amateur, you know that everything that sends out an RF signal, can be located.

--------------
Recently I have tried Google Maps on my BB 7130g and a Windows Mobile SPV M3100.
It located my position based on cell towers with a staggering precission. The precission was under 50 meters in an urban area. Knowing the tech involved, I asked myself a question. Since when do mobile operators give out cell tower location info to Google?

I got in touch with the local operators to request that info and they told me it's highly classified. All I wanted was a simple CSV, with the closes street name to a tower (not actual coordinates).

Google quietly received that info.

Do you want privacy? Dream on.
There is no such thing, unless you turn off your computer, cellphone and everything else.

-----
I was a victim of a privacy breach and felt the effects to a maximum extent. I turned it around and realized that all I needed was a pen, paper, and a lot of thinking, to figure out what two people were doing in the past months, and what their next steps are. No high-tech involved.

Sorry for being a bit off-topic
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