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Old 11-30-2005, 11:11 AM   #1 (permalink)
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They are saying on CNBC that RIMM stock has ben halted for trading right now. They say they have heard that there may be a settlement on the way, but they are not sure.
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Old 11-30-2005, 11:18 AM   #2 (permalink)
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if we have to download the update i wonder how fast would they make it public.. cause im sure everyone would rush to download
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Old 11-30-2005, 10:19 AM   #3 (permalink)
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???
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Old 11-30-2005, 10:21 AM   #4 (permalink)
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NTP saying no settlement.
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Old 11-30-2005, 10:24 AM   #5 (permalink)
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the co-founder and lead counsel for NTP is on the dow jones news wires saying no settlement with RIMM.
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Old 11-30-2005, 10:31 AM   #6 (permalink)
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wow.. so whats going to happen? i need my crack berry
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Old 11-30-2005, 10:32 AM   #7 (permalink)
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U.S. judge files sealed opinion in RIM case


WASHINGTON, Nov 30 (Reuters) - The U.S. judge overseeing the patent infringement case against BlackBerry e-mail device maker Research In Motion Ltd. on Wednesday filed a sealed memorandum and opinion, according to the court docket.

Trading in RIM's stock was halted earlier on Wednesday pending news. Representatives of RIM and the patent holder NTP were not immediately available for comment.
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Old 11-30-2005, 10:36 AM   #8 (permalink)
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well thats just great we are all in the dark until some judge gets around to reading it to everyone... i wonder how fast the injuction would take place.. and how fast would the os change would be up on the blackberry site
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Old 11-30-2005, 10:54 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Just read that he denied the RIM request to enforce the settlement terms suggested by RIM.

Now it is getting interesting.
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Old 11-30-2005, 11:01 AM   #10 (permalink)
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So no settlement which may mean termination of BB?
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Old 11-30-2005, 11:05 AM   #11 (permalink)
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no termentaion but maybe a deployment of the work around.. or maybe a buy out of rimm.. by a big company who is willing to pay what ever settlement is handed down
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Old 11-30-2005, 11:10 AM   #12 (permalink)
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RIMM has over 1 billion in cash.. while this could very well hurt them, it will most likely not mean the "end".

Also, many people (read investors) will be happy to see RIM put this behind them and therefore, the effect could indeed be very short term indeed.

EDIT: case/cash, whats the difference
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Old 11-30-2005, 11:21 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Trading halts of big companies are always uncomfortable. Even companies such as Intel have had their trading halted temporarily before. Temporary halts on trading are common when big news are pending. Typically there'll be a lot of stock volatility. 10% moves in stocks, for example.

1. As mentioned, RIM has developed a workaround already. They can keep running. NTP is out of luck, they can only sue for retroactive damages -- and the network keeps running.

2. This patent tussle is stuff that has been going on since 2003 and they haven't been shut down. RIM has had plenty of time with lots of backup plans that the media hasn't been publicizing. Some of us know more a lot more about these plans than the media does.

3. RIM already set aside nearly half a billion dollars to pay NTP. Although they are fighting over details, the money is already set aside. RIM will do a last minute settlement if they have to. The money is already there, but will only be used during an emergency elevent-hour settlement.

4. Even if worse comes to worse, the U.S. government - by way of DOJ - is on RIM's side. Even if they don't deploy the workaround, the USA government has asked for an exemption because the U.S. government is remarkably dependant on this Canadian technology (surprise, surprise!). This gives RIM plenty of time to deploy a workaround at their own leisure. No shutdown necessary.

5. You would have several million angry customers, since BlackBerry is also the most popular PDA (more popular than Palm now -- and many more units than TREO). You can bet RIM is going to play hardball to the eleventh hour, before they give a red dime to NTP.

6. The patent may be invalid. NTP may be suing over nothing. RIM wants to keep its half billion dollars.

Therefore, RIM is never going to be shut down in USA. RIM is wearing six backup parachutes -- skydivers jump with only one backup in addition to their main parachute. Don't believe the media hype one little bit.

It's a total non-issue now. It shouldn't be affecting BlackBerry purchases anymore since the network isn't going to be shut down, even if a few of the parachutes go bad.
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Old 11-30-2005, 11:42 AM   #14 (permalink)
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I also think left out in this whole debate, particularly for non BB afficionados, is that NTP never invented this technology in question in the first place. There is no poor guy eating Ramein noodles cooked on his hot plate because RIM screwed him out of his just deserts. I also have to say it is a screwy judicial system that for the court case the court has to uphold NTPs patent rights when the Patent Office has ruled against them. I know the argument is that the Patent Office could be over ruled, but sheesh it is not like this is some shoddy process made in a quick moment. It is hard for me to ever feel much compassion for a company like NTP that scoops up intellectual property rights for stuff they played no hand in developing and then tries to get a windfall in the process. And can anyone reasonably explain how NTP can say that the previous settlement really wasn't a settlement. It sure sounds like panning for additional gold to me, almost like we settled too low let's see what more we can get.
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Old 11-30-2005, 11:44 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Mark,
Great points all around, although I do take exception with #6. It may be true, but IMO why wouldn't NTP settle with RIMM over the validity of the patent. If NTP thought for an instance they would lose the patent case, I would expect to see them settle ASAP. To that point something($$$) is better than nothing($0).

Yes the US Govt. uses this "Canadian technology (surprise, surprise!)", a lot of us Yanks do, but as far as I am concerned, what’s good for the goose should be good for the gander. If my service is interrupted so should the governments.
**Notice I said interrupted not cancelled***


I work in a trading shop, as Mark states stocks are halted all the time. If a stock loses 10% of it's value in a set amount of time base on their net worth, the NYSE will halt trading. This happened to Ford Motor Co a few years back. Bottom line is this, RIMM will be trading lower once trading is open again, BUY BUY BUY…Because once this is behind them, and RIMM gets back to what they do well, they will soon be on top again.
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Last edited by blkberryboy : 11-30-2005 at 11:49 AM.
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Old 11-30-2005, 11:51 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blkberryboy
Mark,
Great points all around, although I do take exception with #6. It may be true, but IMO why wouldn't NTP settle with RIMM over the validity of the patent. If NTP thought for an instance they would lose the patent case, I would expect to see them settle ASAP. To that point something is better than nothing.
It's only a preliminary ruling which doesn't really mean much yet. The companies think very differently over this. NTP strongly feels that the patent will hold up. Time will tell whether it is like SCO and Linux -- those who followed that will know what I mean and that like SCO still kept up in courts, NTP would keep up in courts.
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Old 11-30-2005, 11:53 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Worst case if BB service is shut down what options will the millions of BB users and carriers have? Will users be able to break and cancel all their BB contracts with the carriers. Will users be entitled to some sort of reinbersment for their units? Seems like this would be a legal disaster. And this NTP company will not be very popular.
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Old 11-30-2005, 11:54 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Well on CNNfn they are reporting NTP will fight any RIM work around. I found it very interesting in the article how they lay out the "patent trolls" hanging around trying to shut down businesses.

http://money.cnn.com/2005/11/28/tech...1205/index.htm

Last edited by whsbuss : 11-30-2005 at 12:37 PM. Reason: Add CNNfn URL
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Old 11-30-2005, 11:56 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richard371
Worst case if BB service is shut down what options will the millions of BB users and carriers have? Will users be able to break and cancel all their BB contracts with the carriers. Will users be entitled to some sort of reinbersment for their units? Seems like this would be a legal disaster. And this NTP company will not be very popular.
NTP is not really a company. They produce NO products including those that would include their technology the court case is all about. They are a patent attorney.
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Old 11-30-2005, 12:04 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richard371
Worst case if BB service is shut down what options will the millions of BB users and carriers have? Will users be able to break and cancel all their BB contracts with the carriers. Will users be entitled to some sort of reinbersment for their units? Seems like this would be a legal disaster. And this NTP company will not be very popular.
That is outside the scope of this case. The case at point is the patent infringement lawsuit. Any issues with the carries is not a factor in this case.

On a personal note, NTP is not out to wreck your contracts and carriers. In the patent case specifically, NTP asked the courts for a 90 waiting peroid on the injunctions so carries and customers could find some sort of a solution. If RIMM has the workaround in place and ready to launch, I would only think there would be a minimal intruption. Worst case is that we have a very expensive phone/PDA without "Push E-Mail". I am of the opinion that this will work itself out one way or another with minimal impact to the average joe/jane.

Not trying to flame...Goods and SERVICES are considered products. So to that end NTP provides a service thus they have a product. I know plenty of attorneys that would argue what they do is a product. They sell you their knowledge and their time.
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Last edited by blkberryboy : 11-30-2005 at 12:14 PM.
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