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Old 12-20-2005, 07:23 PM   #101 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Good_Guy
We ran on the 900 and 957 with RIMM's blessing. We have no desire to run on the BB platform. No need.
Briliant, just brilliant. I almost hear screams from Good offices. If Good did not make a dumb decision to move out of BB platform, contingency plan would have been very easy: wipe off RIM's software from the blackberry, install GoodLink- problem solved!

How many sales Good lost and was anyone fired for that brilliant move not to provide software for BB platform?



Quote:
You are going to sit there with a straight face and tell me RIMM invented indirect sales?
No, I am saying that RIM tried indirect sales, that model worked, Good followed.
It is hard to be the first, you may end up with Mr. Bob, a laughing stock of the industry. It is easy to follow, stealing working ideas and avoiding mistakes #1 inevitably makes.


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In actuality, the carriers came to Good to start the indirect sale through them. Wonder why...
Perhaps, because Good salesforce is too obsessed with RIM to work for the benefit of their company? May be sales department prefers RIM bashing and FUD spreading to working on new ways to sell GoodLink software?


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Kind of like the RIMM engineers not being very meticulous with the University of Texas' intellectual property?
Kind of. Which means it is dishonest to defend Good for what RIM is criticized.

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I honestly think RIMM and Good will end up the two preferred solutions in the wireless data space.
No, not really. GoodLink is just a software application running on a specific platform. Any software developer can compete with Good.
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Old 01-16-2006, 04:16 PM   #102 (permalink)
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Hey there.

It's been several weeks now since I've heard of any updates to the NTP dispute. Last I heard was that the Patent Office rejected two of NTP patents. Any updates after 12/13/2005? Anyone?

Thanks.
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Old 01-18-2006, 07:42 PM   #103 (permalink)
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Default if NTP wins

Its a bit extreme, and I dont know how I would be able to go back to palm. If NTP is determined to hurt RIM (and that means YOU the blackberry user) wouldnt it be a good idea to take a good look at the 650? I dont want one either.. but palm vs nothing?...
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Old 01-18-2006, 07:57 PM   #104 (permalink)
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Default NTP stinks.

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Originally Posted by Mark Rejhon
It is important to be clear:
- RIM already has a workaround available. The workaround is real.
- You are guaranteed advance notice of shutdown. Even NTP agreed to this.

The sky is NOT falling.
Mark, you are correct. There is however a hickup in the thought. If we get this wonderful "advance notice" what are users supposed to do? Should we all buy stock in one of the competitors (nokia, palm, etc..) because their equipment will be sold out in minutes? Will you go out and buy a page-a-day calendar instead?

Advanced notice is not acceptable. THE CARRIERS NEED TO FIND A SOLUTION! I dont pay a monthly fee to RIM, I pay t-mobile. In my case, t-mobile owes its users a solution, not shrugged shoulders and some advanced warning. Im fairly certain that if the service is shut down, and we get the advanced notice, NONE OF US WILL BE LET FREE FROM OUR YEARLY CONTRACT! The carriers need to get involved and make changes (agressive ones if needed) NOW!

RIM is in court.. Why arent Verizon, Vodafone, T-Mobile, etc.. finding ways to get involved in the suit. The stand to loose billions in the the residual effects of the ever saught after shutdown by NTP

-J
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Old 01-19-2006, 05:42 PM   #105 (permalink)
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The workaround is already in place. It exists on the RIM servers, they just have to enable it. The phones with 4.0 software are ready to go. Since your phone speaks to the RIM servers, they will automatically invoke the change and your phone will work accordingly.
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Old 01-23-2006, 01:23 PM   #106 (permalink)
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RIM Provides Update on NTP Litigation

Waterloo, ON - The U.S. Supreme Court (“Supreme Court”) issued an order today in the patent litigation between Research In Motion Limited ("RIM") (Nasdaq: RIMM; TSX: RIM) and NTP, Inc. ("NTP"). The Supreme Court denied RIM’s petition for certiorari that requested the Supreme Court to review issues concerning the extraterritorial reach of U.S. patent law. While review by the Supreme Court is generally uncommon, RIM sought review because it believes the case raises significant national and international issues. Today’s order has no bearing on the merits of the outstanding issues in the case before the United States District Court for the Eastern District of Virginia (“District Court”).

The District Court will set a hearing date at a later time for further proceedings in the case based on the remand from the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Federal Circuit (“Federal Circuit”). The Federal Circuit decision of August 2, 2005 vacated the injunction and damages award originally entered as a result of the District Court trial in 2002 and remanded the case to the District Court for further proceedings. The Federal Circuit decision also reversed or vacated the infringement finding on 9 of the 16 litigated patent claims.

During the upcoming proceedings, the District Court will be asked to decide a variety of matters relating to the litigation, including the impact of the Federal Circuit’s reversal of infringement findings on issues of liability and damages. In its briefings, NTP has asked the District Court to enter a new injunction prohibiting RIM from providing BlackBerry service and from using, selling, manufacturing or importing its handhelds and software in the United States. The District Court will schedule a hearing prior to deciding each of these matters. RIM maintains that an injunction is inappropriate given the specific facts of this case, including:

the outright rejection of all NTP patent claims in rigorous Office Actions* already issued by the Patent Office, including second Office Actions in three of the four remaining patents in the litigation that sustained rejections after taking into account NTP’s arguments seeking to overturn them;

the ability to fully compensate NTP through ongoing royalty payments in lieu of an injunction;

the Supreme Court’s November 28 decision to hear the appeal in the case of MercExchange v. eBay on questions relating to the propriety of injunctions in patent litigation;

the lack of any practical mechanism to prevent an injunction from having an unintended effect on users in the public and private sectors who would be, or who the District Court determines should be, exempt; and

public interest concerns relating to any potential suspension or interruption of BlackBerry service in the United States.

RIM believes these factors should hold significant weight in any decisions relating to an injunction, however it will ultimately be up to the courts to decide these matters and there can never be an assurance of a favorable outcome in any litigation.

It is also anticipated that the reexamination of NTP's patents by the United States Patent and Trademark Office will continue with special dispatch. All of the NTP patent claims have now been rejected by the Patent Office in its initial rulings in reexamination proceedings, based in part on prior art not considered in the District Court trial in 2002.

As a contingency, RIM has also been preparing software workaround designs which it intends to implement if necessary to maintain the operation of BlackBerry services in the United States.

* The rejections of NTP patents in the initial and second Office Actions issued by the Patent Office were based in part on prior art not considered in the District Court trial in 2002 and were derived through a recently improved Patent Office process whereby reexamination decisions now require thorough review and unanimous agreement from a panel of supervisors and senior patent examiners (see press release titled “USPTO IMPROVES PROCESS FOR REVIEWING PATENTS” at http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/com...hes/05-38.htm).
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Old 01-23-2006, 01:26 PM   #107 (permalink)
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Not sure what NTP is thinking, do they expect the US RIM customers to be jumping for joy that the service could be shut off and devices not work? Would NTP then be held liable for the service not working? Settle the darn thing and move on!!!!
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Old 01-23-2006, 02:23 PM   #108 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrbes
Not sure what NTP is thinking, do they expect the US RIM customers to be jumping for joy that the service could be shut off and devices not work? Would NTP then be held liable for the service not working? Settle the darn thing and move on!!!!
I totally agree, especially with so many people (from consumers, businesses and gov't) carrying these devices, we can't go without service. Just settle this crap already. Sorry, had to vent for a minute.
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Old 01-23-2006, 02:37 PM   #109 (permalink)
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Why should RIM settle and pay to use invalid patents, because people like you are worried. NTP doesn't want a shutdown, then want a settlement based on fear and threats and nothing more. I would like to see RIM hold out until the Patent's Office is done their job and give them nothing.
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Old 01-23-2006, 03:44 PM   #110 (permalink)
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I am sure that I am the only one concerned about this, I would like to see it "settled" speaking in terms of the court - not the money. I want RIM to pay nothing as well, but the courts and NTP are just driving me crazy. Of course the lawyers have to make their money....
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Last edited by jrbes : 01-23-2006 at 03:47 PM.
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Old 01-23-2006, 03:50 PM   #111 (permalink)
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Interesting point about NTP being liable for denial of service. This could be a viable law suit IF the parties don't settle, the court imposes the shutdown, and the patent court says the infringements are frivilous.

OK you class-action lawyers..... get ready!
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Old 01-23-2006, 03:57 PM   #112 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nb_mitch
Why should RIM settle and pay to use invalid patents, because people like you are worried. NTP doesn't want a shutdown, then want a settlement based on fear and threats and nothing more. I would like to see RIM hold out until the Patent's Office is done their job and give them nothing.
I have to agree, I can't imagine that NTP wants a shutdown of RIMM. It seems to me that they would benefit most from a settlement as large as they can get. That's what the injunction is about, forcing RIMM's hand.
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Old 01-23-2006, 05:20 PM   #113 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nb_mitch
Why should RIM settle and pay to use invalid patents, because people like you are worried. NTP doesn't want a shutdown, then want a settlement based on fear and threats and nothing more. I would like to see RIM hold out until the Patent's Office is done their job and give them nothing.
The so-called invalid paatents are just speculation at this point.
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Old 01-24-2006, 10:31 AM   #114 (permalink)
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Question for RIM - if you have a workaround that will avoid the patent infringement, why not put it in place and move on without having to pay? That would make a lot of sense to me, instead RIM is paying out the a## for lawyers and making the RIM customer base nervous...
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Old 01-24-2006, 10:39 AM   #115 (permalink)
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^^ RIM can't answer that question without going into detail about the workaround itself.

However, a logical person could easily conclude that the workaround introduces some undesirable side effects. For example, it could increase data usage--which some carriers (and users) may obviously not wish to experience. Or RIM may not wish to operate a hybrid infrastructure (US using one methodology and the rest of the world another).
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Old 01-24-2006, 12:02 PM   #116 (permalink)
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Implementing a work around of the alleged NTP patent infringemnet this early is the same as an admission of guilt, psychologically. It the old addage that if you've claim to have done nothing wrong, then why run.
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Old 01-24-2006, 02:07 PM   #117 (permalink)
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Good points.
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Old 01-24-2006, 08:55 PM   #118 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrbes
Question for RIM - if you have a workaround that will avoid the patent infringement, why not put it in place and move on without having to pay? That would make a lot of sense to me, instead RIM is paying out the a## for lawyers and making the RIM customer base nervous...

or the fact, the most important fact, they dont want their stock to dive... if stockholders actually thought RIMM might not exist tomorrow, would you continue to hold that stock?

Who knows what to believe at this point, all i know is that i wont be happy if they shut down the service for 30days after next months hearing.. after just spending $350 on a 8700 last friday.
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Old 01-25-2006, 12:28 AM   #119 (permalink)
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I say the work around is purely a last resort because it won't be quite as good technically as what they have now, which is "true Push" of emails. Sure, you'll get your email but will they be able to say they are push email after work around? That is a set back to some degree for RIM. Besides, I still believe they are confident there will be no injunction enforced and they will end victoriously and no need for a work around.
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Old 01-25-2006, 07:14 AM   #120 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by udontknowjack
I say the work around is purely a last resort because it won't be quite as good technically as what they have now, which is "true Push" of emails. Sure, you'll get your email but will they be able to say they are push email after work around? That is a set back to some degree for RIM. Besides, I still believe they are confident there will be no injunction enforced and they will end victoriously and no need for a work around.
I disagree - I am told it will still be true push.

Why not do it now? If RIM implemented a 'workaround' you do two things - first RIM would be admitting they were in the wrong which they say they are not and secondly you are laying all your cards on the table before you have to and NTP could possibly try and get an injunction against that as well as being part of the solution before the case was closed or something similar.

I do agree it will mean a user may have to update some software or handheld software so RIM probably doesn't want to make their user base do anything if they don't have to either

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