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Old 03-05-2006, 10:04 AM   #41 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aristobrat
How much do you think the retro damages would have been?
I don't recall the exact figure, but I think it was in the neighborhood of an 8% royalty...since I don't know RIM's US sales during the relevant period, I can't compute a dollar value.
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Old 03-05-2006, 11:02 AM   #42 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by scaredpoet
Why didn't they just turn it on? I keep asking that question and no one seems to have an answer except that maybe the woraround would have caused serious inconvenience. Which means that when RIM announced that users and administrators "would not notice a change in operation," they lied.
You're confusing:

1: the manual loading of the workaround onto millions of US BlackBerrys + thousands of BES

with

2: how will the users/admins operate the upgraded devices

Did you read the technical change that RIM made to get around the patent dispute? If you did, I don't see how you can even begin to argue that a user or admin would notice it, much less have to make changes in how they operate the BBs or BESs.

#1 is by far the biggest issue that RIM had to consider in regards to this workaround, not the #2 thing that you keep parroting about.
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Old 03-05-2006, 12:46 PM   #43 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scaredpoet
RIM’s “workaround” wasn’t all it was cracked up to be. For the longest time we were fed a line that RIM had a workaround and that effectively, they didn’t need to settle. And when experts kept asking the same question we all were - why not just turn the workaround on now and end the case? - there was no answer from RIM. In effect, it feels a lot like Blackberry users were lied to
First, about lies. RIM had workaround. It were demonstrated to wireless carriers. T-Mobile posted Web page telling its users workaround does exist.

What, you think T-Mobile will risk its reputation without checking facts? They must have seen workaround in works, they must have approved it for their wireless network. Are you calling T-Mobile a liar?


Quote:
to give us a false sense of complacency and to prevent more people from researching alternatives.
Have you been prevented from searching alternatives?

Quote:
RIM provides a service that a lot of corporations and government entities rely on, and they are sadly, best at the game.
I thought so.


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They only had to do one thing: turn on the workaround, pay retro damages, and walk away. If RIM was telling the truth, the injunction wouldn't have meant a thing.
Your last name is not Spencer, right?

This judge was very displeased with RIM all that time. He may had, as well, enforced injunction even with workaround, and gave NTP 30-60 days to confirm the workaround does not infringe or bring evidence it does.
Meanwhile, injunction is enforced, RIM can't sell or service blackberries in the USA.
What would these 60 days do to RIM's business easy to guess.


With workaround, and even without injunction, RIM already kept $450 million dollars for NTP in infringement fees.
What you are saying is RIM, to save $160 million dollars on top of these 450, should have forced all its blackberry users upgrade software.

I do not get it, what is your beef with RIM? They stayed for what they believed, but when it came to choose between inconveniencing blackberry users or paying unjustified fees they preferred to pay money.

They just said: at the end, money does not matter as much as people who are RIM's customers.
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Old 03-05-2006, 03:30 PM   #44 (permalink)
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Well said Berry One.. He's probably a lawer from NTP. funny how he never mentioned the fact that the pattents are rejected, and he doesn't seem to understand why RIM prefers not to have a work around. and really, there is no need to bad mouth anybody anymore. the case is done. lets all get on with our lives and enjoy our blackberrys. Fact is, if you don't like RIM, then don't buy a BlackBerry. the rest of us will enjoy these devices and have fun with it.
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Old 03-05-2006, 05:00 PM   #45 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Berry One
First, about lies. RIM had workaround. It were demonstrated to wireless carriers. T-Mobile posted Web page telling its users workaround does exist.

What, you think T-Mobile will risk its reputation without checking facts? They must have seen workaround in works, they must have approved it for their wireless network. Are you calling T-Mobile a liar?
Wonder what he thinks about Verizon?

Quote:
On February 9, 2006, RIM publicly announced certain details of a "workaround" solution that it believes would not be subject to the court's actions. RIM announced it has designed and tested a software update that would allow customers to continue to use the BlackBerry service without interruption, and with no visible effect on the end users' ongoing experience. According to RIM, the software update will only be necessary, and only be implemented, should the court issue an injunction in the current litigation involving the NTP patents. Verizon Wireless is in the process of testing and evaluating the technical feasibility of this workaround, and also evaluating the ultimate customer experience. If the workaround passes our evaluation, and the implementation of such workaround is not prohibited by a court order, Verizon Wireless will work with RIM, and our customers to implement it.

http://estore.vzwshop.com/blackberry/
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Old 03-05-2006, 05:48 PM   #46 (permalink)
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Scaredpoet:.

1. I read the two links that you posted in response to my question, “Who said that RIM didn't need to settle based solely on the existence of a workaround?” Suffice it to say, nothing in those articles quoting Lazaridis nor Basille comes close to saying what you claim they said. Read the articles again….SLOWLY! As far as what any non-RIM affiliate has said regarding the situation, you cannot intelligently take their comments to be anything other than just that, their comments. They do not speak for, or represent, RIM, in any way.

2. "No, I'm castigating RIM because they lied, and the sooner you accept that, the better off you'll be. They insisted a settlement wasn't necessary to continue operations. Evidently, it was necessary. Please try to keep up."
Keeping up with people who are constantly getting ahead of themselves is usually, indeed, a complete waste of time. But, in this case, it’s entertaining, so I’ll indulge myself in a little idle banter, if you don’t mind. By the way, I can appreciate the fact that you’ve convinced yourself that RIM lied. You just haven’t convinced everyone else.

3. "I don't like Microsoft either. Unfortunately, the applications I use are not available on Mac or UNIX. That doesn't mean I'm going to not use those apps, like apparently you expect I should."
If there are TYPES of applications on your Blackberry that you are using that are unavailable on any other device, then your analogy holds. Otherwise, in the context of my admonition to you, this response makes no sense. Again, read what is written more carefully. I know that there are TYPES of applications written for Microsoft OS that aren’t available for other OS’s. I face the same situation professionally, so I understand it. Your assertion (and I agree with it) was that RIM produces the best product for your needs, not the only product, as is the case in your Microsoft/Mac/Unix analogy. There is a difference.

4. "And I know in your fanboy li'l eyes, RIM is the savior and is all knowing and can do no wrong, and that's fine."

Awwww….. Now see, there was no need for that. Fanboy li’l eyes…hey, what are you tryin’ ta do, spoil our fun??

5. "Not at all! They only had to do one thing: turn on the workaround, pay retro damages, and walk away."
Actually, you list three things here that they had to do, not one. They actually did two of the three (pay damages, and walk away). It looks like they didn’t need to do the third thing (implement the workaround) to accomplish the other two. Wait….isn’t that what you wanted??

As to your question, “Why didn’t they just turn it on?” The answer is, because in the end, they didn’t have to.

Thanks for playing.

Last edited by Silentknight : 03-05-2006 at 05:51 PM.
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Old 03-05-2006, 06:46 PM   #47 (permalink)
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Default T-Mobile statement

I just saw this on TMO

www.t-mobile.com\blackberrynews

T-MOBILE USA STATEMENT ON RIM v. NTP LITIGATION

On Friday, March 3, Research In Motion (RIM) and NTP jointly announced that they have settled their long-running patent dispute. This averts a possible court-ordered injunction of the BlackBerry system, and there no longer is a potential need for RIM to implement its ‘workaround’ software upgrade. Therefore, T-Mobile BlackBerry users need not take any action, and should continue to use their BlackBerry devices and service and they normally do.

We’re pleased that the RIM/NTP dispute has been resolved, so that our customers remain assured they will continue to benefit from the same, robust T-Mobile BlackBerry experience to which they are accustomed. T-Mobile looks forward to continuing to provide innovative service to our current and future BlackBerry customers.


---------------------------------------------------------------------
Hopefully they will release OS 4.1 soon
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Old 03-07-2006, 09:52 AM   #48 (permalink)
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I am just glad its over. I bought the blackberry this year and I love it. So I am very glad they settled puts many things at rest for me.
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Old 03-07-2006, 10:54 AM   #49 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hi13579
Well said Berry One.. He's probably a lawer from NTP.
Such accuations are a common way to try and win an argument when you have nothing good to contribute.

No, I'm not a lawyer from NTP. My history on on other forums as a Verizon customer and blackberry user is easily traceable.

The lawyers have their settlement, so they will gladly shut their mouths, and if they knew any better, they wouldn't say anything to risk jeopardizing that outcome.

I'm simply a user who smells a rat, that's all. If you folks want to disagree, that's fine. People have said I'm not barred from looking at other alternatives, and I've readily agreed that's true. I AM looking at alternatives, and will switch to one when a well-implemented altnernative that doesn't have NTP's greedy paws all over it (nee Visto) surfaces.

That's all! Nice to engage the blind fanboys every once in a while. ;)
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Old 03-07-2006, 11:02 AM   #50 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scaredpoet
That's all! Nice to engage the blind fanboys every once in a while. ;)
Please, don't flatter yourself -- I'm far from a BlackBerry fanboy.

It was the utter lack of logic in how you jumped to your conclusion (and your blatent disregard for the actual facts, when given to you) that was engraging to me.
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Old 03-07-2006, 07:29 PM   #51 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scaredpoet
Such accuations are a common way to try and win an argument when you have nothing good to contribute.;)
True, like someone calling others fanboys. Wait, that was you!


Quote:
Originally Posted by scaredpoet
The lawyers have their settlement, so they will gladly shut their mouths, and if they knew any better, they wouldn't say anything to risk jeopardizing that outcome.
Are we talking same lawyers? Those that called RIM a poacher and other names? Those that expected to have windfall of $1.5 billion but settled at $600 million?

I wonder, why would they let RIM get away with much smaller payout? Wait, I know: these lawyers took less now instead of more later to cover up the fact the workaround does not exist! Now it makes perfect sense.

Quote:
I'm simply a user who smells a rat, that's all.
You have problems defining what you smell. Do you smell RIM and Verizon and T-Mobile and NTP coverap of the fact workaround does not work?

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If you folks want to disagree, that's fine.
We, folks, know facts.
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