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-   -   Judge Spencer Should be Disbarred (http://www.blackberryforums.com/rim-stock-legal-discussion/27765-judge-spencer-should-disbarred.html)

jem 03-05-2006 07:48 AM

Judge Spencer Should be Disbarred
 
What a terrible indictment of the US legal system. A small company that does nothing is able to extort $600 million from an innovative company with millions of customers for a handful of invalid patents. All because Judge Spencer is so in love with his "Rocket Docket" he has forgotten that the virtue of a speedy trial is to promote justice; here it has thwarted it. He has let the principle triumph over its own purpose. RIM has every right to call for his disbarrment.

NJBlackBerry 03-05-2006 08:46 AM

I'm sure the fact that RIM was found guilty by a jury and appealed the guilty verdict all the way up to the US Supreme Court did not influence anything.

RIM signed a settlement. That was their choice.

Speedy justice? This case is almost 5 years old and should have been settled years ago. RIM and NTP were both stubborn. RIM could have settled this for $10 million a few years ago.

Get some facts first before you call for action.

BBDummy 03-05-2006 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NJBlackBerry
I'm sure the fact that RIM was found guilty by a jury and appealed the guilty verdict all the way up to the US Supreme Court did not influence anything.

RIM signed a settlement. That was their choice.

Speedy justice? This case is almost 5 years old and should have been settled years ago. RIM and NTP were both stubborn. RIM could have settled this for $10 million a few years ago.

Get some facts first before you call for action.

Well stated.

More facts: Speedy justice is a criminal justice concept only.

jem 03-05-2006 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NJBlackBerry
I'm sure the fact that RIM was found guilty by a jury and appealed the guilty verdict all the way up to the US Supreme Court did not influence anything.

RIM signed a settlement. That was their choice.

Speedy justice? This case is almost 5 years old and should have been settled years ago. RIM and NTP were both stubborn. RIM could have settled this for $10 million a few years ago.

Get some facts first before you call for action.

The jury verdict was premised on the validity of the patents. They are probably invalid. RIM signed the settlement with Spencer's gun to its head. He was like a judge trying a murder case before the victim died. All he had to do was wait for the determination on validity--that is, all he had to do was wait to see if NTP was really entitled to anything. He was unwilling to that for the sake of clearing his desk. Five years is a short time for a case of this magnitude. Only in Spencer's Rocket Docket is it considered long.

Can the smug "get some facts" line. It doesn't help your argument.

jem 03-05-2006 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BBDummy
Well stated.

More facts: Speedy justice is a criminal justice concept only.

You have missed my point. Judge Spencer has adopted the speedy justice principle for purposes of civil trials in the Virginia "Rocket Docket." In this case, it was inappropriate because of the mismatched timing with the Patent Office.

NJBlackBerry 03-05-2006 09:41 AM

You sound like a lawyer who bet on the wrong horse. No sympathy here.

This case should have been settled years ago. RIM postured and appealed all the way up. There was no guarantee that the patents would have been completely invalidated. RIM was losing customers (and not growing as fast as their own projections) because of this lawsuit. Settling was in their best interests.

BBDummy 03-05-2006 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jem
You have missed my point. Judge Spencer has adopted the speedy justice principle for purposes of civil trials in the Virginia "Rocket Docket." In this case, it was inappropriate because of the mismatched timing with the Patent Office.

Maybe I've missed your point, maybe not. The "Rocket Docket" has nothing to do with the Constitution, which is what is generally meant by "speedy justice," which (like many constitutional principles) is often tossed about by laypeople in casual conversation. The "Rocket Docket" is nothing more than an administrative expedient to keep cases like this one moving along.

I will concede that I find it odd that Spencer didn't stay proceedings pending the outcome of the reexam, especially considering that the legal remedy (money damages) would have been sufficient in this case (that is, NTP didn't need an injunction to be made whole; it simply used the threat of an injunction to hold RIM hostage to a higher settlement value). But it's just that--odd--not improper, and certainly no reason to call for an impeachment.

As to the jury verdict: yes, it is indeed premised on the validity of the patents. Fortunately for NTP, there is a final court judgment that the patents are valid. Nothing can ever change that. All that can happen is the USPTO can cut off NTP's rights going forwards; they cannot change the past.

NJBlackBerry 03-05-2006 11:02 AM

Don't confuse facts with emotion.

Berry One 03-05-2006 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NJBlackBerry
You sound like a lawyer who bet on the wrong horse. No sympathy here.

This case should have been settled years ago. RIM postured and appealed all the way up. There was no guarantee that the patents would have been completely invalidated. RIM was losing customers (and not growing as fast as their own projections) because of this lawsuit. Settling was in their best interests.


Cops write you a ticket for speeding. It is mere $100, but you do believe you were not speeding.

You go to the local court. You lose. Then you lose all the way to the Supreme Court.

Meanwhile, a story breaks in the news that police laser guns of a type used to clock your speed are inherently faulty. There is internal review in progress and preliminary results demonstrate that equipment just wrong. Final results will come later.
This could make cops stop using these laser guns and write speeding tickets to innocent motorists who do obey the law.

You come to the court and told by the judge this is irrelevant, and you can choose to pay the ticket, few thousand bucks in legal fees and get with your life; or you can go to jail for the failure to pay the ticket and he is not in the mood to let you off the hook.

You decided you've had enough and you bail out.

Your friends call you stupid for not just paying the ticket in the first place. There is no guarantee these laser guns will be completely found faulty. You get no sympathy for staying for what you believe.

BBDummy 03-05-2006 11:51 AM

People need to stop using criminal law analogies--they make what happened in the NTP case seem screwy, but it's really just a bad analogy. To quote from Dilbert, "Your tie is like Hitler on ice skates." Criminal law is criminal law; everything else isn't. (BTW, I love the idea of the Supreme Court taking a speeding ticket case. Truly.)

The settlement value of the case changed on a daily basis. The injunction gets closer, the value goes up; the PTO acts, the value goes down. Obviously, RIM decided that the balance finally tipped in favor of settling; they must believe that they stand to gain more than $600+M by virtue of continuing to do business as they have been, or that they stood to lose more than than that by virtue of deploying the workaround.

mybuzz 03-05-2006 12:07 PM

Judge Spencer Should be Disbarred
 
I think every one has valid views and scenarios. True, I think RIM should have settled this years ago, but does this mean RIM will still use the current OS for their hand helds? or are we all going to have to start using the work around plan? How does this work?

d_fisher 03-05-2006 01:04 PM

Yes, RIM will continue to use the current OS. No, we will not use the workaround.

mybuzz 03-05-2006 01:15 PM

Well, that's good news. I am confused though, so does this mean RIM bought the patent's that NPT was holding? Wouldn’t RIM get sued again for continuing to use the same OS that they were sued for? Or is there some kind of agreement of usage that was worked into the settlement.

BBDummy 03-05-2006 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mybuzz
Well, that's good news. I am confused though, so does this mean RIM bought the patent's that NPT was holding? Wouldn’t RIM get sued again for continuing to use the same OS that they were sued for? Or is there some kind of agreement of usage that was worked into the settlement.

The settlement almost certainly includes a dismissal with prejudice, meaning that NTP can never bring the same patent infringement suit again. In essence, RIM has purchased a license to use NTP's technology, though it may not be phrased as such (then again, it may).

NJBlackBerry 03-05-2006 03:14 PM

And the wireless carriers were also indemnified. That, apparently, was a sticking point in earlier negotiations.

guinda35 03-05-2006 08:44 PM

One small point. The good judge is a federal judge appointed for life. He can't be disbarred. You've gotta impeach him. But if we can't impeach someone for lying us into a war, not much luck here. You've gotta catch him lying about cheating on his wife.

klp45 03-06-2006 01:14 PM

Rim did the best they could given the situation. I think 612.5 M is better than having a judge order damages for patent infrigment - no matter what amount.
If Rim had waited for a verdict from a judge who was obvisoly tired of both parties, and knowing that NTP had won a jury trial in 2002 - do you think it would have been better or worse? I say worse, much worst. It could have been an injuction which would mean that RIM's stock pluments and the company is worth nothing - plus they would still have to pay X amount in damages. If your company's stock value falls to next to nothing, where are you going to come up with the money for the damages. RIM did the best they could; they felt the judge out as best they could hoping to discover where he might side. They found out that he wanted them to settle. They did. The settlement was 612.5 M, RIM did 404 M in one quarter last year. RIM is valued at 1.8 B so yes it hurts, but not as much as having to pay it after your stock price hits rock bottom. Everyone is hard on NTP cause they didn't do anything with the patent. What happens to the guy who gets a patent but doesn't have the money to bring it to market...Is he SUPPOSE to get the short end of the stick?

apple85 03-06-2006 02:17 PM

My opinions of jury's
 
Honestly I think the jury is to fault here, they obviously wanted to "Stick it to the big bad corporation" and unlike us didn't realize NTP was a little patent holding company that wanted to milk some big corp. I think the Judge did rush the whole situation and comments he did make were in appropriate. Quite honestly I don't think a majority of society is educating enough in techonology to make a decesion regarding technology the way that jury did. Also I wouldn't doubt that if any of them were users themselves they would have voted the way they did...

Halford1 03-06-2006 03:26 PM

Can RIM sue NTP for fraud after the PAtent Office make an offical announcement that it rejected all Patents NTP filed for?

Sue for 1 Billion dollars and pay rest to lawyers... and leaves$612 million to take back.

NJBlackBerry 03-06-2006 03:29 PM

No; the final settlement excludes RIM suing NTP.

IT IS A FINAL SETTLEMENT.


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