Here we go again. I thought Visto was partnered w/ NTP. Wouldn't the NTP settlement supercede Visto's claim?

http://www.bbhub.com/2006/05/01/vist...-infringement/

This is what happens when you're a successful business; always in the crosshairs.

Visto has their own patents. They licensed NTP's patents for their own product so that their product would be compliant with those patents. This is a big concern right now and RIM will likely license the patents from Visto. However, working on RIM's side is the fact that Microsoft was the first company to be sued by Visto and there's a lot of money backing Microsoft on the issue.

With that said, Visto already successfully filed suit and won against Seven Networks for their product. The significance of that lawsuit was the fact that Seven Networks was formerly a firm in Europe who's development team went to Microsoft to build Magneto/DirectPush - see any issue there? During that case, Visto's patents were put through the USPTO process and many of the arguments and points were upheld.

RIM has likely been ready for this lawsuit for quite a bit, to be perfectly honest.

Read this article - might help RIM and other companies with prior art arguments against Visto's patents, which were awarded in 1989, if I'm not mistaken (maybe the early 90's though).

http://www.blackberryforums.com/blackberry-news/32377-2006-04-16-silicon-valley-man-without-patent.html

*le sigh*

...and here's RIM's official response:

rim.com/news/press/2006/pr-01_05_2006-03.shtml

****ING VISTO I JUST READ THE ARTICLE!! UGH... I sent a really nasty email to the Visto PR lady from the article I read just to make myself feel better...

Doesn't NTP own a significant stake in Visto?

Someone sue for anti-trust.

[quote=jibi]Visto has their own patents. They licensed NTP's patents for their own product so that their product would be compliant with those patents. This is a big concern right now and RIM will likely license the patents from Visto. However, working on RIM's side is the fact that Microsoft was the first company to be sued by Visto and there's a lot of money backing Microsoft on the issue.

With that said, Visto already successfully filed suit and won against Seven Networks for their product. The significance of that lawsuit was the fact that Seven Networks was formerly a firm in Europe who's development team went to Microsoft to build Magneto/DirectPush - see any issue there? During that case, Visto's patents were put through the USPTO process and many of the arguments and points were upheld.

RIM has likely been ready for this lawsuit for quite a bit, to be perfectly honest.

Read this article - might help RIM and other companies with prior art arguments against Visto's patents, which were awarded in 1989, if I'm not mistaken (maybe the early 90's though).

[quote]

RIM has no plans to license anything further from Visto/NTP. Most of the patents in issue with this latest effluent to spew from Wallace were issued in the 2000-2002 time span. The patents in question do even touch RIM technology. It's a calculated PR stunt to drive customers away from RIM.

The only pattern to be seen in this development is that Visto/NTP once again filed suit in chicken shit districts in the US where dopey juries suddenly become inflicted with a severe case of NIH sickness. [NIH- "not invented here" =. i.e any company that is not a US company will be slaughtered by a US jury.]

Ever read a RIM NDA for US entities? "The parties expressly waive the right to a trial by jury." Gee, I wonder why?

PR stunt or not, costs for legal recourse is expensive. did anyone ever come up with a finalized dollar amount spent by RIM on proving it was right?

Oh well, let's see what happens. Hopefully Microsoft will take most of the heat and get as many of the claims dismissed in court before a court case involving RIM takes shape sometime in 2007.

I won't hold my breath for any news on this front.

whsbuss, you're dead right. Successful technology businesses always seem to be the target of these tiny little companies no one has ever heard of before saying that they have a patent on this idea. Just look at all the cases Apple has fought (and won) over the iPod and iTunes.

brace! brace!

But I think RIM will not suffer as much this time. People and potental customers now know that RIM will do whatever it takes to keep the service going.

Doing whatever it takes is one thing, but I think a big player in any future litigation, assuming RIM is going to be smart about it, would be its investors. I think the last minute closed-door sessions with NTP made the investors quite anxious.

With them already winning their jury trial against Seven Networks for a similar product, and with the patent claims already being accepted by the USPTO, I find it quite astonishing that RIM is going to want to put the resources into fighting this again ...but it does appear they are gearing up to do so. Needless to say, there is prior art for the systems, but I'm not sure if that will cover the synchronization patents held by Visto. I do like that RIM has stated its looking into asserting its own patents against Visto, though.

The key difference between NTP and Visto is the fact the Visto actually has a product that is utilizing their patents. The fact that Visto is suing about everybody that has an email product (Seven, Smartner, Good, MSFT, Sproqit and now RIM) tells me that their business plan is it make money through litigation. I can say that I have rarely, if ever, run into Visto in a competitive situation. They are strictly a white-box solution that is, from speaking with customers, very limited in it's feature and functionality and I think that Visto knows that they are a non-entity in the enterprise space.

Looking at the patents in question over on BBHub, they look very broad

Well, the Smartner and Microsoft cases do, in fact, make sense. Keep in mind that Seven Networks bought Smartner as its international entity, from what I understand. The lawsuit against Seven should have covered Smartner in it. Given their progress against Seven Networks in the patent office and the upcoming victory against Seven, their move to fire against Microsoft was a no-brainer - Magneto was born out of the same people who made Smartner/Seven's product.

Atleast that's my take on it. The patents speak of a workspace synchronization. I agree that is extremely broad - who/what defines 'workspace'. But I do see that it could be applicable, especially if its already been ruled as such against a 'competing' product of RIM and Good. I don't think that the same prior art arguments that came up in a 'wireless email delivery' case would be applicable to 'workspace synchronization' but I could be wrong.

When companies can't be competative with the rest, they rely on dirty tactics.

Those who can do....Those who can't or won't...sue!

You can say that again. They have a history of suing. It's disgusting.

here we go again ...

Wirelessly posted (BlackBerry8700/4.1.0 Profile/MIDP-2.0 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/100)

*sigh*

Wirelessly posted (BlackBerry8700/4.1.0 Profile/MIDP-2.0 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/100)

Has anybody here had any experience with Visto, out of curiosity?

Visto is the white-box provider of email for many of the carriers. Nextel, Rogers, Telus, and Vodaphone are a few of the larger carriers that use Visto as the OEM for their branded email services.

How would you like to appear in a courtroom in Jerkwater Texas, before Judge Billy-Bob Pusser and a jury with 12 teeth and a collective IQ to match? YIKES!

The more I read of words coming out of Visto's CEO's mouth, the more I agree with the news on BlackBerry Cool that this guy is delusional. This guy has some serious problems...

It reminds me of that Black Crowes song... Jealous Again....

'cause I'm jealous, jealous again....

LOL That thought crossed my mind as soon as I saw the picture of him on Visto's website!

The product is very poor. My company has a server in-house for a customers use, and i must say it is very poorly made. There is little to no security around it, it communicates with the upstream server via un-encrypted port 80. Not something I would go with if I wanted secure communications.

As for the lawsuit. I wouldn't worry about it. You need to remember that NTP has a 20% stake in Visto, so of course they are gonna attempt to get some money out of RIM

I have, wan't a bad e-mail program. Visto was the 'man behind the curtain' for treomail if I remember correctly.

VIsto dropped their personal accounts about 3 years ago. Took them 1.5 years to refund me the balance on my account.

good one!