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Old 05-23-2008, 04:04 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Any plans to renovate BIS and restore IMAP?

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Despite having been a blackberry (Verizon 8330 curve) user for only 2 days, I'm proud of the amount of research I've done on their e-mail system. I'm also extremely disappointed in the whole BIS thing. While I appreciate the long list of benefits of the Curve over my Treo, one thing I definitely did NOT expect is that e-mail would be LESS efficient than on my Treo... It is a BLAcKBERRY after all!

That's because my Treo used Chattermail, which took advantage of IMAP IDLE technology. Which has been around for years. And works - perfectly. I almost never had a problem with that feature... Everything I did on the treo was mimicked beautifully on the web server. (Note, I have NO plans to switch back to Treo!!!).

So back to the question at hand... Blackberry's BIS system appears pretty basic. Are they at all rumored to restructure this? Would they add full support for IMAP? In all my searchings, people invariably get a horrible and unpredictable delay in email transmission with the IMAP configuration BIS uses now (polling every 15 minutes or whatever). That's NOT push email!

For the record, I'm sticking with the POP system at the moment. At least my emails are getting pushed and I can delete them from the server. Then, at the end of the day, I can sit down and mark all my messages "Read" on gmail's site. But I'd really like to hear that Blackberry is working on a solution to this!

Oh, and even an application that allowed IMAP IDLE integration would be sufficient, I think!
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Old 05-23-2008, 06:38 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Maybe you need to go back to the Treo? Sounds like you won't be happy with the BB.

Have you looked into BES or a hosted BES solution? That might provide what you are looking for.

If I remember correctly from my Treo days, the quickest I could get my email was 15 minutes. BIS is true push email, in that email is pushed to you about every 15 minutes, sometime faster. I don't have to go out and ask for it.

I find BIS to be very efficient and it works well for me. I do not see the need for instant, near real time email access.
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Old 05-23-2008, 07:31 AM   #3 (permalink)
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I use a BES and use BIS for other accounts. I find that gmail and yahoo are delivering as fast or faster than my BES email. And if I delete an email received on Yahoo, it deletes it on the web account. Pretty thourough for me.

I am unfamiliar with imap so I may be missing something else here that is important to you.
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Old 05-23-2008, 09:20 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Dubdub View Post
Maybe you need to go back to the Treo? Sounds like you won't be happy with the BB.

Have you looked into BES or a hosted BES solution? That might provide what you are looking for.

If I remember correctly from my Treo days, the quickest I could get my email was 15 minutes. BIS is true push email, in that email is pushed to you about every 15 minutes, sometime faster. I don't have to go out and ask for it.

I find BIS to be very efficient and it works well for me. I do not see the need for instant, near real time email access.
BES. Yes the real reason why BIS is so lacking. Well BES is expensive and unless you work for a big company you're not going to be using it, so touting that as the cure all is ridiculous as well as your statement that he should go back to his Palm. If BB wants to compete in the smartphone arena, especially the consumer one, then its is going to have to be less reliant on their BES product and put a little bit more functionality on what most of their newest customers will be using.
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Old 05-23-2008, 12:33 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Folks I'm not trying to bash blackberry, nor do I want to pay for an additional email service. I also don't want to change my email address, especially when its with one of the most popular providers. My point is simply that I really do think BIS is in need of an overhaul and should take advantage of technology that is already out there.

I also like the blackberry two hundred times more than the treo, for everything BUT email. As I said, I'm making do with the BIS pop setup, but I'm wondering about their future.
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Old 05-23-2008, 01:18 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Folks I'm not trying to bash blackberry, nor do I want to pay for an additional email service. I also don't want to change my email address, especially when its with one of the most popular providers. My point is simply that I really do think BIS is in need of an overhaul and should take advantage of technology that is already out there.

I also like the blackberry two hundred times more than the treo, for everything BUT email. As I said, I'm making do with the BIS pop setup, but I'm wondering about their future.
Get a Yahoo account and forward through them it can't be more than $10 a year and you would get instant e-mail. Just spoof the e-mail addy and your recipients will never see a difference.
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Old 05-23-2008, 01:25 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I thought about this option as well but it takes me a step backward. Messages edited on the blackberry won't have ANY impact on the gmail account. Ill be getting less synchronization, not more.
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Old 05-23-2008, 02:45 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I thought about this option as well but it takes me a step backward. Messages edited on the blackberry won't have ANY impact on the gmail account. Ill be getting less synchronization, not more.
I do not know about Gmail as I switched to Yahoo after BIS 2.0 came out. I get instant email and it shows as read on the Yahoo interface. I can also delete from the Bb and have it deleted on Yahoo. THe only step I do not have is getting these things to work on Outlook on the PC but I would need BES for that.

This system works for me.
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Old 05-23-2008, 02:51 PM   #9 (permalink)
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You could subscribe to yahoo plus and then you could access via outlook.
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Old 05-23-2008, 03:01 PM   #10 (permalink)
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I thought about this option as well but it takes me a step backward. Messages edited on the blackberry won't have ANY impact on the gmail account. Ill be getting less synchronization, not more.
I get push email to my BlackBerry from Gmail. Often times I get mail on my BB before is shows up in Outlook. I didn't set it up to use IMAP, I went through the BIS website, entered my address and password and it did the rest.

I have 2 Gmail accounts and 2 Google Apps Gmail accounts on my BB and they all work the same exact way; 90 times out of 100 the mail is on my BB before Outlook via IMAP. Idunno.

Gmail IMAP to Outlook or Thunderbird is nearly instantaneous. My BB is just that much faster.
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Old 05-23-2008, 04:02 PM   #11 (permalink)
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I get push email to my BlackBerry from Gmail. Often times I get mail on my BB before is shows up in Outlook. I didn't set it up to use IMAP, I went through the BIS website, entered my address and password and it did the rest.

I have 2 Gmail accounts and 2 Google Apps Gmail accounts on my BB and they all work the same exact way; 90 times out of 100 the mail is on my BB before Outlook via IMAP. Idunno.

Gmail IMAP to Outlook or Thunderbird is nearly instantaneous. My BB is just that much faster.
I'm not debating that the **POP** BIS setup for gmail works instantaneously. This is what I've been using, and it does work. It lacks the following, however: messages read on the BB still show as new on the server; deletions on the server don't delete on the BB. That means that if I'm checking my mail online, I have to go through and mark everything read. Things I delete online I have to back onto the BB and delete manually. This is just annoying... an inconvenience. The system works for its essential purpose, but is not as useful as it easily could be.

With IMAP (using IDLE), the emails are not only pushed instantaneously, but blackberry and webmail are sync'd perfectly, all the time. Trust me, when you've had this, you don't want to take a step back to POP. My treo did this flawlessly, and I can't see why Blackberry wouldn't either.
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Old 05-23-2008, 04:08 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Sounds like you should use yahoo. It does all of this except pop from your computer. But marks read, deletes, etc.
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Old 05-23-2008, 04:12 PM   #13 (permalink)
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You're right, yahoo does sound like it works better. But I'm not sure why they won't add those couple of features into gmail. I will give it some time before I go setting up a new email address.
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Old 05-23-2008, 04:14 PM   #14 (permalink)
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You can also use the gmail application on your blackberry. It is not as instant, but if you delete or read, it will update on the web.
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Old 05-23-2008, 04:24 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Ok thanks. Sounds like there's a bunch of different ways to get all the features, but no single way.
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Old 05-23-2008, 05:22 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Berrymedic20 View Post
I'm not debating that the **POP** BIS setup for gmail works instantaneously. This is what I've been using, and it does work. It lacks the following, however: messages read on the BB still show as new on the server; deletions on the server don't delete on the BB. That means that if I'm checking my mail online, I have to go through and mark everything read. Things I delete online I have to back onto the BB and delete manually. This is just annoying... an inconvenience. The system works for its essential purpose, but is not as useful as it easily could be.

With IMAP (using IDLE), the emails are not only pushed instantaneously, but blackberry and webmail are sync'd perfectly, all the time. Trust me, when you've had this, you don't want to take a step back to POP. My treo did this flawlessly, and I can't see why Blackberry wouldn't either.
GMail integration with BIS does not utilize POP protocols. As RIM did with Yahoo, they worked with Google to integrate their PUSH technology into their mail system. I believe BIS 2.5 will unleash the full two-way synchronization between GMail and BIS (so your deletions and read/unread status reconciliations will go both ways). Yahoo is currently two-way synchronization, as mentioned above.

...not to mention that you get your Calendar with these services, which ChatterMail did not do on the Treo. Rumors circulating say that Contacts synchronization will soon come, as well.

...or you could look at the BlackBerry Unite! product for use on your home computer.
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Old 05-23-2008, 05:25 PM   #17 (permalink)
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GMail integration with BIS does not utilize POP protocols. As RIM did with Yahoo, they worked with Google to integrate their PUSH technology into their mail system. I believe BIS 2.5 will unleash the full two-way synchronization between GMail and BIS (so your deletions and read/unread status reconciliations will go both ways). Yahoo is currently two-way synchronization, as mentioned above.

...not to mention that you get your Calendar with these services, which ChatterMail did not do on the Treo. Rumors circulating say that Contacts synchronization will soon come, as well.

...or you could look at the BlackBerry Unite! product for use on your home computer.
jibi,

any idea when 2.5 will release?

Also, I know about google's app for sync but does yahoo have one as well?

Last question, if I have been on BES (personal, hosted), will I be unhappy with everything else?

Thanks.............
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Old 05-23-2008, 05:47 PM   #18 (permalink)
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After OS 4.5 would be my guess... so perhaps by the end of summer? I rarely dive into the BIS side of the house, aside from a basic configuration of my personal GMail account. I think the trade-off from annual expenses on BES (additional monthly fees for the hosted BES and Enterprise BlackBerry Plan) would leave you more than happy with BIS

...atleast if I had to pay for any of my services, I'd probably feel that way.
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Old 05-23-2008, 06:27 PM   #19 (permalink)
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After OS 4.5 would be my guess... so perhaps by the end of summer? I rarely dive into the BIS side of the house, aside from a basic configuration of my personal GMail account. I think the trade-off from annual expenses on BES (additional monthly fees for the hosted BES and Enterprise BlackBerry Plan) would leave you more than happy with BIS

...atleast if I had to pay for any of my services, I'd probably feel that way.
For the most part I am there with you on the expenses. On verizon with unlimited minute plan, the cost for BES or BIS is the same. My BES hosting is being paid for me. My challenge is that I am thinking of trying sprint and I could save a total of $55/month if I skip tethering and BES. Hard to resist. But then again, I am a little gun shy on Sprint. I have been very happy with Verizon.
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Old 05-23-2008, 08:42 PM   #20 (permalink)
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After OS 4.5 would be my guess... so perhaps by the end of summer? I rarely dive into the BIS side of the house, aside from a basic configuration of my personal GMail account. I think the trade-off from annual expenses on BES (additional monthly fees for the hosted BES and Enterprise BlackBerry Plan) would leave you more than happy with BIS

...atleast if I had to pay for any of my services, I'd probably feel that way.
That's the kind of thing I was hoping to hear!!!! Like I said, Blackberry (from my understanding) basically invented/popularized Push email, so they must be aware of the imperfections. Glad to hear there's at least speculation about updated BIS. Contacts and Calendar sync would be absolutely amazing...
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