Sitting on a plane last week, I was salivating at the guy next to me using an unbranded 8700. We got to chatting, I asked him how much it would take to have him remove his SIM and sell me his device...to no avail) and he confirmed 2 things that I found interesting. Tmobile will be Feb/March and that Q3 next year we'll have a consumer device, a clambshell, that will have mp3 and a camera....

Was the unbranded 8700 black color?

same as rogers

If Cingular released the 8700c in November wouldn't T Mobile launch in or after May '06? I thought Cingular had exclusivity of the 8700 in the U.S. for 6 months.

its a 90 day exclusive

90 days only? When I was visiting the U.S.A. and visiting some Cingular stores to see the 8700c since I was still awaiting my 8700r at that time all the reps I had spoken to said to me that in the United States Cingular has exclusivity for 6 months. I guess they were wrong or perhaps misinformed. I don't really know.

It is Cingular... :P

The Rogers 8700r is a very dark blue it's not black for anyone who didn't know.

A Camera?? I'll have to see that. At WES last year Mike L said Blackberries will not ever have cameras on them. If there is one, they bowed to pressure.

BTW, 90 Day exclusivity is the longest anyone gets. My bet is 6 months was quoted to entice you to buy Cingular now instead of waiting 6 months for TMO. RIM rep with TMO told me late January early February, which would be in line with the 90 day mark.

what i want to know is if the RIM exec was flying first class, business, or coach........

There is no way that RIM would have agreed to a 6 months exclusive on their flagship product. That would be suicide. ;)

I think it was just incompetant staff. Reason I say this is because I was visiting in the U.S. when the 8700c was released so I was hoping to see one up close and personal but when I asked the rep if they had the new blackberry 8700 he said the newest blackberry RIM came out with was the 7100 series. He was very adiment about it then one of his co workers said it wasn't out until December and that Cingular has a 6 month exlcusivity deal with RIM and to come see them in mid December to get a look at the 8700c if I wanted.

Once again Cingular had a 90-day exclusive that started Nov 1st, 2005.

I think I would rather have removable memory than a camera. The ability to use a blackberry for both email, calls, web and as a music/video player would be great and far more interesting to me than a camera.

coach. They always fly coach for some reason. On my way back from WES last year, i was on the plane with several RIM guys, all flying coach.

I flew back from WES in First Class, Tom All you have to do is fly around 100,000 miles a year and they let you up front!

nope last time they let tom up front he drank all of the good cold drinks and started to do all of his good bar tricks

i wonder how good a flip berry would work, meaning who would make it?

They were in coach. But, then again, so was I. It was an all coach flight...

I have to wonder if he was referring to products that will be deployed on other hardware using the theoretical blackberry connect or blackberry built in product (if it exists at all). I was at the WES and do remember hearing that cameras are a no-no for them, as that action alone would be suicide to their core business.

I'd loe a flip berry, that I can see happening. Removable memory and a camera on the RIM branded blackberry...I'd have to see it to believe it....and I probably still wouldn't believe it.

I would love a clamshell ;) The only thing I don't like about my BB is wearing it on my hip. A clam that would protect itself when in the pocket would be great and not have the extra bulk of a holster strapped to it.

I suppose a clamshell would be "okay". Could I have it "e-mail first, phone second"!!? Give me my QWERTY/screen on the outside and flip it/slide it open for the phone part. Oops, I better apply for a patent!

Steve

BB Built in is the Siemans SK65 (European)
BB Connect is in the Nokia 9x00 series (9500 with Cingular i believe), the SE P910i in Europe, and I think even the XDA from O2...but I could be wrong about the last one.

So it is not Theoretical...it is actually out there...but Europeans want BB Connect more than North Americans I guess.

Zro

Yeah I was actually referring to the US. I think it could take off, if anyone ever decided to offer it. I've seen promises for quite some time now, but no deliverable. That's why I the "theoretical" product, as it officially does not exist today in the US. It's supposed to be available, but it's not, and at this point, I don't know that it ever will. It was supposed to be included on a Nokia phone that was released well over a year ago (probably closer to two at this point). Then there was supposed to be a patch for that phone. Now, they're about 3 releases past that model...and still no BB Connect.

Sorry for going of topic.

If RIM ever offered a consumer brand BlackBerry, I just don't understand how that would be suicide to their core business. I know that many corporate and almost all goverment customers would not allow a BlackBerry with a camera phone in their organization. I just don't see how if RIM offered a camera as a feature on select models, corporate customers who don't want that feature would be adversely affected so long as camerless devices are still available.

The answer to me seems clear on that one. It would require a physical examination of the Blackberry in places where cameras phones are not allowed, insuring there was no camera. It is universally now that no memory cards or cameras for BBs Or worse yet a ban on BB in places they are currently allowed. I have had limited experience with this, but I saw someone with a Treo have it all but disassembled at a security check.

You [and many others] have made this argument in many threads and I would like to respectfully disagree

What if the new device's form factor was RADICALLY different. i.e. it looked like a Samsung Palm/PPC phone, which is indistinguishable from every other consumer phone. I can see them putting a camera, removable memory, etc in something that looks like a consumer phone.

There is also a minor flaw in your logic. You are assuming that all security personnel are tech saavy enough to know that BBs don't have cameras as a universal rule and that a security dept would universally allow blackberries [you are also assuming they even know what a BB is]. The security guard, if they are doing their job, will ask EVERYBODY if they have a cell phone [mp3 player, laptop, pda,...], and if that phone [mp3 player, laptop, pda,...] has a camera.

No company would ever make a security policy that says 'ask if it's made by RIM - well then it's OK'.

well every time i have went to a gov building the inspect your device... and look for a camera.. dont think the care who makes it.. if it has a camera on it.. its a wrap.. and since most of the sucurity in my town atleast are young enough to know what a camera phone looks like... i wouldnt be the one trying to do the fake out...lmao

This is hard to believe the the govt would allow this. But if you do go to blackberries site it is now split for 2 conumer and business. Blackberry would take a big chance in losing the govt contracts and I think they might not chance it. Plus if they do there goes prices up the roof. I agree I wish it had an mp3 player but that is it.

I would like BB as long as they do not have a camera on it.. To be frank I have a nokia phone with Camera on it but I have never ever clicked on it. I would rather see the Memory card slot on the future BB so that I can take backup of my Blackberry any time I want it and that Backup is always on the card. Also the card will be good for aux storage.
Also RIM needs to come up with some way to put more real estate (memory) on these devices because Nokia is beating them and everyone knows that Nokia is much more famous in Europe and Asia than BB. so I hope they come out of their legacy thinking and adopt some new evolutions.

i wish there was a model with a camera... its one of the things stopping my real estate and mortgage clients from switching over to blackberry. as far as mp3's i just don't see mp3 players as practical on phones.... i barely get a full day of battery out of my bb right now. i'd hate to be shut down in the middle of the day because i listeded to an hour of music during lunch

Saying that RIM could never put a camera into a BlackBerry because you couldn't take it into a government building is like saying that GM cannot make big SUVs becasue they cannot fit into the compact car space in a governmnet parking garage.

I think that RIM would do well to have different configurations of some of their devices. For those that cannot have or do not want a camera, so be it. Just don't penalize everyone else who may.

<BOOOM><SCHPLATT>
Oh Im sorry that was my head exploding from all this talk about a camera on a BB. So far the only arguement that I have heard for one is beacuse realestate salsepoeple want one. Ok, I'll bite. But the lady that sold me my house, she worked for Century 21, the had like 5 office camera for the sales peoples use.

I liken Bl;ackberry's to Texas, and as the bumber sticker says, "Don't Mess With Texas"

I ask you all: How did any of you survive with out a camera phone before?
Me, I carried a camera...a big, bulky, intrusive, cumbersome pocket camera.

I am MORE than positive that if RIM is getting set to release a "consumer-ish" version of their mobile device that includes a camera, they have already run through the particulars with the government and would have received the thumbs-up from them. They would never take that chance. So, if it's being released, it's been okay-ed.

It seems to me that the question surrounds consumer personal preference vs. business profitability.

1. Is there a business-case that can be made for RIM to release a model/line of Blackberry's that offer features desired within the consumer arena, i.e. cameras, mp3 players, removable/expandable memory, etc.
2. Is there a negative affect to their bottom line should they decide to release a consumer-focused device?
3. Can they get the buy-in (if necessary)for this kind of consumer-focused device from large clients (i.e. the US government) who could impact the bottom line should they not be pleased with RIM?

If the answer to these questions is yes-no-yes respectively, then there should be no surprise that RIM may release a device like this in the future.

Generally, companies are not in the regular practice of keeping their offerings limited in an effort to maintain a level of perceived exclusivity (only for business people, only for the short/tall, only for men/women) because that's not how you increase profit.

Not everybody likes driving a truck, that's why Ford sells cars, too!

hey... some people thought nextel would ever be used for anything but fleets.... look at it now.. cameras and everything.

i also think its very likely that with blackberries becoming so popular these days we are likely to see more consumer themed phones come out .... infact as far as i'm concerend the 7100 series is the beginning of that

Great point, RIM has already taken steps in that direction with the release of the 7100 series, which to me is an obvious attempt to attract customers who are not interested in the traditional Blackberry form factor (size, shape, etc). I don't see a glaring reason why RIM would not continue down that path with the 7100 series further developing it for a less business-centric consumer who does want those features that traditional Blackberry business users apparently despise.

If a real estate agent tried to show me cell-phone photos of a potential house to buy, I'd go elsewhere. They all carry cameras with high MPs on them where I am from. "Is that some ivy growing up the side of the house? How quaint." "No, that's the rolled up garden hose..."

At WES, they were very clear that there would be no cameras or removable memory on BB devices. That said, they developed BB connect specifically to fill that void.

I have spoken with several carriers regarding BB Connect devices. The general consenus is that they aren't willing to go through the time and cost of certifying a BB Connect device until the NTP litigation is settled.

Jester

first of all not all cell camera's are that crappy. secondly i dont' think they are using it so show the house as much as they are to snap a quick picture of a place that may be for sale by the owner for records or so they can remember details they might need when discusing the house. regardless of whether or not you would like them to use it they still like the idea of always having a camera with them. they are all using treo's at the place i am working becuase of this

I don't get what the problem is with a company adding features to a product. If they can add a camera or expandable memory and sell more phones what's the downside of that. I find it highly unlikely they will stop making products that do not include these features if that's what their core clients demand. Why would a public company limit it's market by not including features that people outside of their core base desire.

It's pretty evident from the subject matter contained in a significant number of posts on this website involve features that are not work related. A significant number of users don't use their blackberry devices for work but rather for personal use.

I had a Nokia 6230 before my bb, and the my most missed feature is the MP3 player and 1GB removable flash card. I could easily transport work home as well as listen to music for hours and still have plenty of power left to make as many calls as I needed to. It's not a technological stretch to allow for battery life appropriate to the device. I own an ipod too and shelved it in favor of carrying only one device. The integration of features into one device is what makes the blackberry so popular. The 6230 also had an FM radio, the ability to play and record video, and seamlessly integrated these features into the phone. What to stop RIM from doing this, they would become a communications device super power.

I'm not a big fan of camera phone but I can count more than a couple time having one has come in handy. You're not taking pictures for you family photo album, or pictures to hang on you wall. You're taking a camera phone picture not a masterpiece. It will probably be deleted once it's served it's purpose. I'm not familiar with the rules at security check points through which camera phones are not allowed, but to have phones disallowed based on brand seems a little far fetched (I could be wrong because I don't know). The person writing such a policy, I'm sure would be intelligent enough to see the the complications this would cause. Simply disallowing certian models within a brand wouldn't be much of a stretch beyond this type of policy, that would essentially be equally as strict.

To think RIM is not giving or shouldn't give the average consumer what they desire is a tired BB snob argument. I can't understand not wanting the masses to be attracted to a product simply becuase you don't want the status symbol gleaming in it's belt holster to be degraded becuase every kid is walking around school with one. The product has virtues that extend beyond the business world. An those with any business sense would see the benefits to the RIM stockholders when your product is being sold to more consumers.