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-   -   Motorola 'Q'? (http://www.blackberryforums.com/rumor-mill/29336-motorola-q.html)

hnsimpson 03-20-2006 09:17 AM

Motorola 'Q'?
 
For the past few months I have heard rumblings about Motorola's version of a Blackberry/Treo. It was supposedly derivied from the RAZR lineage, with the sleekness and "cool factor" to be it's main selling points.

From what I have seen/read on it, the plan was for it to run Mobile Windows, and compete directly with the Treo and Blackberry platforms.

My latest issue of 'Fast Company' magazine mentions it in an article about Motorola, but there is no release date mentioned that I saw.

Has anyone seen one of these (even in prototype) and does anyone know when it may (if ever) come to market?

Thanks

Simpson

whsbuss 03-20-2006 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hnsimpson
For the past few months I have heard rumblings about Motorola's version of a Blackberry/Treo. It was supposedly derivied from the RAZR lineage, with the sleekness and "cool factor" to be it's main selling points.

From what I have seen/read on it, the plan was for it to run Mobile Windows, and compete directly with the Treo and Blackberry platforms.

My latest issue of 'Fast Company' magazine mentions it in an article about Motorola, but there is no release date mentioned that I saw.

Has anyone seen one of these (even in prototype) and does anyone know when it may (if ever) come to market?

Thanks

Simpson

Check the demo on www.phonescoop.com

hnsimpson 03-20-2006 09:47 AM

TYVM. Looks like it is being released next month on Verizon.

whsbuss 03-20-2006 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hnsimpson
TYVM. Looks like it is being released next month on Verizon.

There's also talk on phonescoop that on 3/21/06 there will be a "Coming Soon" advertisement on verizonwireless.com

jibi 03-20-2006 10:47 AM

http://www.blackberryforums.com/atta...tachmentid=613
http://www.blackberryforums.com/atta...tachmentid=614
http://www.blackberryforums.com/atta...tachmentid=615
http://www.blackberryforums.com/atta...tachmentid=617
http://www.blackberryforums.com/atta...tachmentid=619

boygenius posted pics of his Q over 4 months ago, comparing it (in the pictures) to the 8700c... ;-)

at the time, the handheld was much larger than the 8700 and the keyboard was not all that impressive, if i remember correctly. i believe there were a lot of complaints from the general layout of the keyboard (keys too small, felt cheap, etc) and the directional keys. maybe Motrola addressed those issues since BG got his hands on one back in November (it was purchased not simply a demo).

Boy Genius 03-20-2006 01:51 PM

No big changes to the Q...it is very quick, very stable, but compared to blackberry for email it doesn't even compare. Anyone used to activesync for email will understand. The thing i HATE about the Q is that it is smartphone and simple tasks take forever or impossible. Lets say you want to copy and paste... CAN'T DO IT. What if you want to select some text from an email...NOPE. Things like that no touch screen, etc. In terms of competing with the blackberry I have not seen one company come close. The Q also does not at the moment have the AKU2.0 pack which includes "push" email. Something funny is it doesnt change how email is delivered, it just changes the notifications. Now you have SMS triggers, AKU2.0 uses a direct HTTP connection. Ok great the trigger is 10 seconds faster, but you still have to wait for activesync to sync. Such a scam...

southwestcomm 03-20-2006 01:53 PM

That limitation is found on all Windows Mobile 5.0 devices I believe. I read there should be a ROM upgrade to devices to support the true push Email Microsoft is promising.

hnsimpson 03-20-2006 01:57 PM

I was considering this as opposed to an 8700 for my next device (contract up in July).

Leaning towards the 8700 heavily now.

Thanks,

Simpson

Boy Genius 03-20-2006 02:12 PM

No problem, put it like this, I carry a phone phone, 8700, and the Q. If you only carried one device and did not care about push instant email I would go with Q, if you want all in one. The only limitation i can think of with 8700 compared to Q is true MMS (Camera), and multimedia (Video, MP3s) Plus obviously the aftermarket software which there is a lot of. In regards to the ROM update posted, that is the AKU2.0 i was referring to which still does NOT include true push email, simply changing the way activesync gets notified. Microsoft is a LONG way off. Also the keyboard on the Q sucks... :smile:

I will be posting new Q vs 8700 pics in a little bit.

hnsimpson 03-20-2006 02:23 PM

For business purposes I would like to have the stability and reliability of the BlackBerry. The push/instant email is an added bonus, but as long as I can get email checked every 15 minutes without killing the battery I believe that would be fine.

On the other hand, I do have a baby boy on the way, and would love to be able to easily share pictures with the grandparents.

I guess I was hoping the Q would bridge the gap between what I want and what I need.

Simpson

Boy Genius 03-20-2006 03:09 PM

Honestly for what you sound like you need, the Q would probably be a better fit to keep it real. If someone said to me you can choose 8700 or Q I would take 8700 just because how much of an instant email, blackberry messenger freak I am. Are you on an Exchange server? Or will be using POP/IMAP?

BVI Beach Bum 03-20-2006 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boygenius
No problem, put it like this, I carry a phone phone, 8700, and the Q. If you only carried one device and did not care about push instant email I would go with Q, if you want all in one. The only limitation i can think of with 8700 compared to Q is true MMS (Camera), and multimedia (Video, MP3s) Plus obviously the aftermarket software which there is a lot of. In regards to the ROM update posted, that is the AKU2.0 i was referring to which still does NOT include true push email, simply changing the way activesync gets notified. Microsoft is a LONG way off. Also the keyboard on the Q sucks... :smile:

I will be posting new Q vs 8700 pics in a little bit.


What if I don't need push email or any mms, but like the simplicity and stability of the BB? I have a 7100T and was waiting for either the Q and switching to Verizon or the 8700 on Tmo, what would you reccomend since you use both?

How reliable is the ActiveSync? I had it wil an old Ipaq and it sucked, but that was like 4 years ago.

hnsimpson 03-20-2006 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boygenius
Honestly for what you sound like you need, the Q would probably be a better fit to keep it real. If someone said to me you can choose 8700 or Q I would take 8700 just because how much of an instant email, blackberry messenger freak I am. Are you on an Exchange server? Or will be using POP/IMAP?

I will be using POP.

Also, what price point is the Q coming in at?

Simpson

Boy Genius 03-20-2006 06:20 PM

I can't imagine the Q retail to be more than $399-$450...Really depends on your preference, are you more multimedia centric, or more email focused. I find that the BlackBerry browser is faster than any Pocket PC even EV-DO compared to EDGE. Obviously not the speed of the connection but the way it renders and etc. Have tried 8700 on Cingular against Q and Treo700 both on verizon, its 25-30 seconds faster on 8700 on say cnn.com. All in all I can not find something to replace 8700 or blackberry in general, I find myself having devices for the wow factor to show clients etc and never changing my staple blackberry and phone.

hnsimpson 03-21-2006 12:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boygenius
I can't imagine the Q retail to be more than $399-$450...Really depends on your preference, are you more multimedia centric, or more email focused. I find that the BlackBerry browser is faster than any Pocket PC even EV-DO compared to EDGE. Obviously not the speed of the connection but the way it renders and etc. Have tried 8700 on Cingular against Q and Treo700 both on verizon, its 25-30 seconds faster on 8700 on say cnn.com. All in all I can not find something to replace 8700 or blackberry in general, I find myself having devices for the wow factor to show clients etc and never changing my staple blackberry and phone.


Concerns I had about the Q are as follows:

1- Reliability- Is this a platform that will be as reliable or nearly as reliable as the Blackberry 7100t I have, or will it fall into the Treo 650, "depends on if you get a good one" category

2- Price- Is the sexiness of the new Q going to price it over my budet

3- Best Choice- Is this just a differently packaged Treo 700? And if so, would I be better served with the Treo 700??


BoyGenius- Thanks for all of your input. Being able to hear it from someon who has actually carried the device makes a difference.
BTW-how did you get your hands on one? I thought they weren't introduced yet?


Simpson

Boy Genius 03-21-2006 02:55 PM

No problem, I represent a ton of high-profile clients and get them what they want.

Reliability-wise I have not seen anything so stable as the blackberry platform. Microsoft has definatly made way with the 5.0 version of Windows Mobile which makes the product definatly usable, but they all still get slow, and require restarts because almost all WM devices I have come across have memory leaks. Round 1 BlackBerry

Pricing should be about the same price of 8700c when it launched, retail was $450, Q should be that or a little less.

Smartphone (Q) and Treo700w (Pocket PC) are the same concept but very different. The smartphone is a skimmed down version of pocket pc, and that means less options, no touchscreen, less aftermarket software, and things like that. Since the Q incorporates a track-wheel and "back" button it makes navigating much easier but still can not compare to a pocket pc. The menus are a lot less graphical and more text based, less settings, etc. Same principle but different. Taking away the wow factor of the Q I would go with the Treo 700w, it is more functional, faster, just has less memory. The Q is 64MB or RAM, Treo is only 32MB. If you can deal with that, then Treo. Why do you want to leave the 8700 for dead so badly?

hnsimpson 03-21-2006 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boygenius
No problem, I represent a ton of high-profile clients and get them what they want.

Reliability-wise I have not seen anything so stable as the blackberry platform. Microsoft has definatly made way with the 5.0 version of Windows Mobile which makes the product definatly usable, but they all still get slow, and require restarts because almost all WM devices I have come across have memory leaks. Round 1 BlackBerry

Pricing should be about the same price of 8700c when it launched, retail was $450, Q should be that or a little less.

Smartphone (Q) and Treo700w (Pocket PC) are the same concept but very different. The smartphone is a skimmed down version of pocket pc, and that means less options, no touchscreen, less aftermarket software, and things like that. Since the Q incorporates a track-wheel and "back" button it makes navigating much easier but still can not compare to a pocket pc. The menus are a lot less graphical and more text based, less settings, etc. Same principle but different. Taking away the wow factor of the Q I would go with the Treo 700w, it is more functional, faster, just has less memory. The Q is 64MB or RAM, Treo is only 32MB. If you can deal with that, then Treo. Why do you want to leave the 8700 for dead so badly?


By no means have I left the 8700 for dead. In fact I love my 7100 and love the Blackberry. Right now it is my choice if it becomes available on the Verizon network. I'm looking at upgrading my device and I just want to know all of my options.

Plus, I *want* a camera in the device, I just want it in a Blackberry, not in an unreliable device.

I also realize that I am posting on a Blackberry Forum, so I expected a bit of a bias towards them over the Treo.


Simpson

Boy Genius 03-21-2006 11:01 PM

No bias. If you only knew my phone collection it would scare you. I am posting from a Treo 700w now. Rumor has it RIM is working on a blackberry that will have an integrated camera so if you can hold out that might be a great device for you. If the camera was the only thing making you lean away from the blackberry I would go with the 700w with ActiveSync on an exchange server or even should I say it...Goodlink. While I would NEVER take it over a BlackBerry it does give you some flexibility with devices and the email is pretty good, not great but better than regular ActiveSync.

dc/dc 03-21-2006 11:14 PM

He's not lying. I have a lot of phones (over 20), but his collection puts mine to shame because he has got quality over quantity (though mine is improved over what it used to be).

hnsimpson 03-21-2006 11:28 PM

The fact that you guys are so hands on is exactly what makes this forum so relevent. Just from the posts in this thread I feel like I have shopped the three devices already.

It is great knowing that I can get good real information instead of just a canned sales pitch.


Simpson

dc/dc 03-21-2006 11:31 PM

BTW, celluloco has the GSM Q available for a preorder if you are inclined. :)

http://www.celluloco.com/products/cu...cat=366&page=2

hnsimpson 03-22-2006 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dc/dc
BTW, celluloco has the GSM Q available for a preorder if you are inclined. :)

http://www.celluloco.com/products/cu...cat=366&page=2

$US 1,349.88
Sweet Mother of Crap!

That is a bit outside of my budget.

Simpson

coreyg510 03-22-2006 05:16 PM

Yes...but you save 25%!!

RxistKJ 03-22-2006 06:54 PM

Sony M600i
 
Boy Genius--thanks for the great information. I was wondering if you have had a chance to test the Sony M600i or have any insider information you can share about it? Sorry if I'm straying too far off topic.

Thanks again

HIH 03-22-2006 07:43 PM

Have seen the physical Q today -- nice touch pad and layout. Very slim, too. The joy-stick is something nice to have. Screen is not proportional to its size, meaning, too small.

Boy Genius 03-22-2006 07:58 PM

I have not had a chance to mess around the SE W600i sorry, if I do come across it I will definatly post here first. See I don't like the keyboard on the Q at all, its too stiff, and plastic-ey. I actually like the screen for some reason, I guess because its 320x240 and not 240x320 like other smartphones.

Boy Genius 03-22-2006 08:00 PM

Please! Please! Please! Do NOT buy from Celluloco. It's one guy literally and he is notorious for selling things without EVER having them. There is NO working GSM Q. Not even motorola has one! Do not buy please! He is not even smart he doesn't have one live picture, such a scam

dc/dc 03-22-2006 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boygenius
Please! Please! Please! Do NOT buy from Celluloco. It's one guy literally and he is notorious for selling things without EVER having them. There is NO working GSM Q. Not even motorola has one! Do not buy please! He is not even smart he doesn't have one live picture, such a scam

I've never bought from him, and don't plan to, but I browse the site for comparison, and just happened to see that, so I thought I'd share.

Thanks for the confirmation that he's a turd though. :)

coreyg510 03-22-2006 08:13 PM

I sell the w600i, so I can give you my opinion.

1. The swivel in my opinion would just get on my nerves.
2. Good battery life, but could always be better. For instance, the sony ericsson z520a has a 12 hour talk time.
3. Camera is nice, but I think it was better on the Sony S710. It does have several different settings, including night shot and more
4. Has MP3 song support. Better than the Itunes format, because I view a particular format limiting to the device
5. I have seen a couple of swivel tops come completely off.
6. Bluetooth and Infared capabilities.


This device is not bad overall, but to me, is not really worth the money as I am big on PDA devices. It might be nice for someone who wants a nice phone with a good digital camera. Beyond that, I dont think that I would use it for anything more.

Boy Genius 03-22-2006 08:23 PM

Just wait for Motorola's 3-Mega Pixel phone... :)

dc/dc 03-22-2006 08:45 PM

Next one I think I will get is a V3x. I played with it in Singapore, and it's got the operating system like the CDMA motos, not the GSM, which is pretty cool. UMTS 2100 won't do me any good here, but it sure will when I'm in Japan and Europe. Unfortunately my only UMTS phone right now is the Nokia 6630, which is too much of a brick for travel.

junior1790 03-22-2006 09:21 PM

question for The Genius
 
Genius- you certainly are a wealth of knowledge and i mean that without any sarcasm. I have been reading some of the forums that you are involved in and have noticed that you recenty said you deal with with high profile clients. Is this how you come across your information or do you actually locate these phones, pda's and blackberry's before they are released for thses clients?? Purely curious and thanks for all the great scoop!!!

Boy Genius 03-22-2006 11:08 PM

V3x is a great phone, OS is very similar to the regular RAZR, menus are exactly the same just minor cosmetic differences. Just watch out if you need 850Mhz, although there are a couple 850Mhz V3xs floating around...8-)

dc/dc 03-22-2006 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boygenius
V3x is a great phone, OS is very similar to the regular RAZR, menus are exactly the same just minor cosmetic differences. Just watch out if you need 850Mhz, although there are a couple 850Mhz V3xs floating around...8-)

I think you may have the V3x confused with the V3i...

The V3x is primarily a UMTS phone for the 3 network. It's OS is almost exactly like the one found on the E815, V710, and other Motorola CDMA 1X-EVDO phones, not like the GSM OS found on the V3, V3i, SLVR, L6, etc.

Boy Genius 03-23-2006 12:01 AM

Nope no confusion, have a dolce V3i, and an OEM Blue V3x, V3x software is a hyped up version of the regular...but you right in some regards, kind of in the middle

dc/dc 03-23-2006 01:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boygenius
Nope no confusion, have a dolce V3i, and an OEM Blue V3x, V3x software is a hyped up version of the regular...but you right in some regards, kind of in the middle

Ok... When I played with it in Singapore (which was less than a month ago), I was reminded more of my cousin's E815 than my L6, V80 or V3. I guess I'll have to get one and check again. LOL

BTW, the DG V3i is really fresh. I'm quite envious. You definitely set the bar as far as mobiles go.

Boy Genius 03-23-2006 01:16 AM

Haaaa, Dolce is cool...definatly turns heads I have a feeling motorola is going to release the V3i in Gold same as dolce just no limited edition, they always do things like that.

dc/dc 03-23-2006 01:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boygenius
Haaaa, Dolce is cool...definatly turns heads I have a feeling motorola is going to release the V3i in Gold same as dolce just no limited edition, they always do things like that.

I've already seen an OEM Moto gold faceplate kit for the V3i. Can't remember where though.

Just out of curiousity, have you ever had any dealings with myworldphone.com? I don't find many reviews on them on HoFo.

Boy Genius 03-23-2006 01:49 AM

I havn't heard anything good or bad, sorry, I will ask a couple people and see what the feedback is

RxistKJ 03-23-2006 03:02 AM

SE M600i
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by coreyg510
I sell the w600i

Actually, I was curious if the Boy Genius (or anyone) has tested the Sony Ericsson M600i? This handheld will eventually support BB Connect and has a lot of features including touch screen, expandable memory slot, Jog Dial navigation, full QWERTY keyboard a la the 71XX BB, and runs on the latest Symbian OS

See the phone here:

http://www.sonyericsson.com/spg.jsp?...=pp1&pid=10385

Looks like SE is the latest vulture hovering over the post-NTP injured RIM.

Thanks in advance.

mechguy 03-23-2006 06:05 AM

Boygenius, I have a question for you. I am trying to decide between the 7130e and the treo 700w and the new Q for myself. I have never had a blackberry or a smartphone/pda. I am looking for a reliable phone. Next I am looking for something I can surf the internet with and something I can connect to my laptop so I can surf at times from there. Is there one of these that might be better for me. Thank you for your input.

delmarco 03-23-2006 11:52 AM

BB 8700c ftw!
motorola makes toys and fads not PDA/phones IMO!

Boy Genius 03-23-2006 01:59 PM

I'm a huge motorola fan, there isn't one phone company I would take over motorola on any given day. To me they are the best. Can't stand nokia, etc. Saying that I would recommend something based on what you said, and it doesn't sound like instant email is that important to you. If it isn't then you have to decide what you like more, something quick and simple, with less software, less options, or something that is more expandable. Treo 700w is a little faster etc, but the Q makes more of a statement. Depends on your taste. Doesn't sound like the blackberry is that important to you and frankly I HATE the 7130...that might be just me tho. I would recommend trying out a smartphone and pocket pc and see what you like less software wise, not device wise and then make that decision

junior1790 03-23-2006 02:07 PM

Genius, When will the AKU sp be out??
 
Will that be truly "push" e-mail like the blackberry or will i have to be content with every fifteen minutes like the treo 700. i just got rid of my treo and went with a razr from verizon and the 8700 from cingular, two devices are easier. From what i have been reading, sounds like i would not have gained much by waiting for the Q seeing as i amm also a freak for instant e-mail, work related anyway.

HashGordon 03-23-2006 02:19 PM

the two devices seem like a fun idea. iam bouto t get an 8700c. also have applied to a free V3 Razr giveaway on macandmobile.com :-) just overly optimistic

mechguy 03-23-2006 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boygenius
I'm a huge motorola fan, there isn't one phone company I would take over motorola on any given day. To me they are the best. Can't stand nokia, etc. Saying that I would recommend something based on what you said, and it doesn't sound like instant email is that important to you. If it isn't then you have to decide what you like more, something quick and simple, with less software, less options, or something that is more expandable. Treo 700w is a little faster etc, but the Q makes more of a statement. Depends on your taste. Doesn't sound like the blackberry is that important to you and frankly I HATE the 7130...that might be just me tho. I would recommend trying out a smartphone and pocket pc and see what you like less software wise, not device wise and then make that decision


Thanks for the help. Why do you not like the 7130?

I am looking for something that will be more of like a toy, my main thing is I want to be able to surf the intenet with the device and connect it possible to my laptop and use it as a phone also.I just cant decide with one to get.

Thanks

TreyS 03-23-2006 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boygenius
No bias. If you only knew my phone collection it would scare you. I am posting from a Treo 700w now. Rumor has it RIM is working on a blackberry that will have an integrated camera so if you can hold out that might be a great device for you. If the camera was the only thing making you lean away from the blackberry I would go with the 700w with ActiveSync on an exchange server or even should I say it...Goodlink. While I would NEVER take it over a BlackBerry it does give you some flexibility with devices and the email is pretty good, not great but better than regular ActiveSync.


RIM rep was here, at my office last week, and said the same thing. A BB with integrated camera was on the way. I was more interested in when Verizon was going to release the 8700, he said don't count in it anytime soon. :(

dc/dc 03-23-2006 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TreyS
A BB with integrated camera was on the way.

Please God no!!!!!

Boy Genius 03-23-2006 11:19 PM

I don't know why everyone is so anti-camera. Obviously there will be models without a camera, BlackBerry will never leave that market, that is there bread and butter. But as a business to try and expand to new markets how is that a problem? Just don't buy one with a camera...I frankly have no need for MMS without a camera.

junior1790 03-23-2006 11:53 PM

Genius, I'm starting to get a complex
 
Genius, i have tried to ask you several questions on this forum because you seem to be the goto guy and i see that you have made several post behind me with no response. I'm starting to get a complex, something i said???

dc/dc 03-24-2006 01:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boygenius
I don't know why everyone is so anti-camera. Obviously there will be models without a camera, BlackBerry will never leave that market, that is there bread and butter. But as a business to try and expand to new markets how is that a problem? Just don't buy one with a camera...I frankly have no need for MMS without a camera.

The reason why I am so anti-camera is because of the nature of my work. BlackBerry is the only device allowed in many of my worksites because it is the only brand that has no camera, and security personnel do not need to inspect a BB because they know it has no camera.

If RIM installed a camera in the BB, they would lose significant business in the public sector because places would begin to say no wireless devices at all, thus making it useless to many customers.

ntjones 03-24-2006 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dc/dc
The reason why I am so anti-camera is because of the nature of my work. BlackBerry is the only device allowed in many of my worksites because it is the only brand that has no camera, and security personnel do not need to inspect a BB because they know it has no camera.

If RIM installed a camera in the BB, they would lose significant business in the public sector because places would begin to say no wireless devices at all, thus making it useless to many customers.

And they'll likely gain many more customers than they lose. I, for one, will be first in line. I have to carry my BB 24/7, and it sucks to not have many of the features that every other cell phone in the world has.

And honestly, and this is just my opinion, I seriously doubt they will lose very many customers just by adding a camera option. What other phone would these companies go to? They might get pissed, but I think the vast majority will just deal with it.

Just my opinion, though.

-Nate

CanuckMakem 03-25-2006 01:20 AM

http://promo.motorola.com/q/index.html

Looks like its out in April

Boy Genius 03-25-2006 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by junior1790
Will that be truly "push" e-mail like the blackberry or will i have to be content with every fifteen minutes like the treo 700. i just got rid of my treo and went with a razr from verizon and the 8700 from cingular, two devices are easier. From what i have been reading, sounds like i would not have gained much by waiting for the Q seeing as i amm also a freak for instant e-mail, work related anyway.

Sorry, did not skip over your question purposely. If your using the AKU2.0 update with exchange service emails will be almost push meaning, say 20 seconds from the time the email is sent. If you are focused on INSTANT email I would stay with 8700, the Q will not have AKU2.0 out the box, it will be a later update.

Boy Genius 03-25-2006 10:39 AM

April release does sound right, lets see if they make it...

junior1790 03-25-2006 01:20 PM

Thanks Genius
 
Sounds good, thanks for the info...

dc/dc 03-25-2006 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ntjones
And they'll likely gain many more customers than they lose. I, for one, will be first in line. I have to carry my BB 24/7, and it sucks to not have many of the features that every other cell phone in the world has.

And honestly, and this is just my opinion, I seriously doubt they will lose very many customers just by adding a camera option. What other phone would these companies go to? They might get pissed, but I think the vast majority will just deal with it.

Just my opinion, though.

-Nate

Th United States Federal Government is the single largest customer of BlackBerry handheld devices in the world. If I camera is installed in them, RIM will likely lose the federal government as a customer. So no, they won't gain more than they lose. Sorry.

Boy Genius 03-25-2006 07:06 PM

Your VERY wrong. Do you know how many government agencies use microsoft/palm products? They simply get one without a camera. Just because ford makes aston martins doesn't mean you feel like a cheap ass when you buy one right? There is NO security checkpoint I have ever seen that allows devices in just by saying OH its BLACKBERRY. They still CHECK the device. SO your completely wrong in that regards...I say gimme a friggin camera...NOW.

ntjones 03-25-2006 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dc/dc
Th United States Federal Government is the single largest customer of BlackBerry handheld devices in the world. If I camera is installed in them, RIM will likely lose the federal government as a customer. So no, they won't gain more than they lose. Sorry.

They won't lose the feds. Saying one thing and actually doing it are not the same thing. They may be the largest single customer, but they are still the minority. Small business needs and wants will greatly outweigh those of the government. And small business customers want multimedia functions.

But even if they do lose the feds, who cares? Not RIM, thats for sure. I can almost guarantee you that RIM's analylists sat down and calculated what would occur should they add something like a camera. And they added up the projected losses and gains. And they probably came up with a VERY positive number.

Besides, IMHO, why should a few customers be able to dictate the future and direction of a given company? RIM wants to expand its user base, and multimedia is, and always was, inevitable. Email is great, but that will only carry them so far. It is only a matter of time before competitors like motorola, microsoft, etc. catch up to, and pass RIM.

Without innovation, RIM probably couldn't survive forever. The market is just too competitive.

ntjones 03-25-2006 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boygenius
There is NO security checkpoint I have ever seen that allows devices in just by saying OH its BLACKBERRY. They still CHECK the device.


Yea, I kind of wondered that myself. It was mentioned above that blackberrys are ok coming through the security checkpoint. So, they must have to actually look at it to know its a blackberry right? How much longer would it take to make sure that blackberry doesn't have a camera? An extra second or two?

Boy Genius 03-25-2006 09:06 PM

Both of those points are completely valid and correct. Thank everything that knowledgeable smart people do exist in this world

dc/dc 03-25-2006 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boygenius
Your VERY wrong. Do you know how many government agencies use microsoft/palm products? They simply get one without a camera. Just because ford makes aston martins doesn't mean you feel like a cheap ass when you buy one right? There is NO security checkpoint I have ever seen that allows devices in just by saying OH its BLACKBERRY. They still CHECK the device. SO your completely wrong in that regards...I say gimme a friggin camera...NOW.

I'm not actually wrong. I work for the government as a contractor. Out of the 20+ Air Force bases and 10+ State Department sites (including sites that require security clearance) on which I have set foot in the last 3 years, I have only seen 1, ONE, UNO site that was using something other than BlackBerry.

I'm not trying to be argumentative, but I know what I'm talking about. Typically, if a government employee has a BlackBerry, they wear it on their waist in the stock holster. A security guard can glance at it, see it is a BlackBerry, and know for a fact that it does not have a camera because NO BlackBerry has a camera. As soon as a model is introduced with a camera, sites will ban ALL BlackBerry devices because they do not have the time to check if it has a camera or not. That's how the government works. Right or wrong, it's done in the name of efficiency.

If you want a PDA with a camera, buy a Windows Mobile or Palm device.

dc/dc 03-25-2006 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ntjones
Yea, I kind of wondered that myself. It was mentioned above that blackberrys are ok coming through the security checkpoint. So, they must have to actually look at it to know its a blackberry right? How much longer would it take to make sure that blackberry doesn't have a camera? An extra second or two?

Sure, it would only take two seconds, but that is simply not how the government works.

ntjones 03-26-2006 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dc/dc
If you want a PDA with a camera, buy a Windows Mobile or Palm device.

Sir, you are still missing the point. Using your argument, I can say "If you want email-on-the-go, then carry a laptop and a cell phone that can be used as a modem." Why do I have to sacrifice something?? Again I ask, why should the feds, or any other company that doesn't want a camera, be allowed to dictate the future of the BB? They shouldn't and won't.

I love my BB. Its email capabilities are unmatched by any other mobile device, at least the ones I have seen. But... I can guarantee you, that that will not last forever. Such is the way of things in business, especially in the electronics world. RIM knows they have to innovate to compete.

I'm sorry, I still feel that the "I'm leaving you if you add a camera, memory card, etc" are very overblown. It's a lot of talk and threats, nothing more. In your case, with the security issue, I think it will just amount to some additional checks at the gate, just like all the changes at the airports after 9/11. We'll deal with it and move on.

hnsimpson 03-26-2006 09:28 AM

The innovation and evolution of the Blackberry device is key to its survival, I believe.

If RIM does not develop new technology and expand the Blackberry line then will be the reason to have one when the other devices develop their email to equal or better BBerry?

Simpson

dc/dc 03-26-2006 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ntjones
Sir, you are still missing the point. Using your argument, I can say "If you want email-on-the-go, then carry a laptop and a cell phone that can be used as a modem." Why do I have to sacrifice something?? Again I ask, why should the feds, or any other company that doesn't want a camera, be allowed to dictate the future of the BB? They shouldn't and won't.

I love my BB. Its email capabilities are unmatched by any other mobile device, at least the ones I have seen. But... I can guarantee you, that that will not last forever. Such is the way of things in business, especially in the electronics world. RIM knows they have to innovate to compete.

I'm sorry, I still feel that the "I'm leaving you if you add a camera, memory card, etc" are very overblown. It's a lot of talk and threats, nothing more. In your case, with the security issue, I think it will just amount to some additional checks at the gate, just like all the changes at the airports after 9/11. We'll deal with it and move on.

You might be right.

ntjones 03-27-2006 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hnsimpson
The innovation and evolution of the Blackberry device is key to its survival, I believe.

If RIM does not develop new technology and expand the Blackberry line then will be the reason to have one when the other devices develop their email to equal or better BBerry?

Simpson

I agree. And its bound to happen sooner rather than later.


Quote:

Originally Posted by dc/dc

You might be right.

And I might be wrong. It's happened a few times! ;-)

blkberryboy 03-28-2006 07:32 AM

Gizmodo.com is reporting it has been delayed....again

http://www.gizmodo.com/gadgets/smart...ain-163271.php

Too bad, I guess this debate wont be halted for another month. ;-)

Boy Genius 03-28-2006 12:43 PM

It might be delayed who knows really. As far as I know April is definatly looking good and I have no other information that says otherwise. The hardware and ftware are all production. It is just about getting the devices made fast enough. There is a very goo chance that everything is ready to go and they are waiting on the green light. My guess is that it wll be announced on verizon first week of april.

Boy Genius 03-28-2006 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dc/dc
I'm not actually wrong. I work for the government as a contractor. Out of the 20+ Air Force bases and 10+ State Department sites (including sites that require security clearance) on which I have set foot in the last 3 years, I have only seen 1, ONE, UNO site that was using something other than BlackBerry.

I'm not trying to be argumentative, but I know what I'm talking about. Typically, if a government employee has a BlackBerry, they wear it on their waist in the stock holster. A security guard can glance at it, see it is a BlackBerry, and know for a fact that it does not have a camera because NO BlackBerry has a camera. As soon as a model is introduced with a camera, sites will ban ALL BlackBerry devices because they do not have the time to check if it has a camera or not. That's how the government works. Right or wrong, it's done in the name of efficiency.

If you want a PDA with a camera, buy a Windows Mobile or Palm device.

Sorry to beat a dead horse to death but after reading back, I have one simple question for you...blackberry comes out with a blackberry with camera...WHAT DEVICE WILL YOUR "GOVERNMENT" USE??? I am very doubtful that they will ban EVERY EMAIL DEVICE ON THE PLANET. Because blackberry is the only brand that doesn't have cameras...can you use a treo without a camera? NOPE because they make one with a camera...can you use an HP 6510, NOPE because they make one with a camera...I guess your stuck with carrying a laptop then...oops wait, Sony makes one with an integrated camera...BAN ALL SONY PRODUCTS AND LAPTOPS!!!!!

dc/dc 03-28-2006 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boygenius
Sorry to beat a dead horse to death but after reading back, I have one simple question for you...blackberry comes out with a blackberry with camera...WHAT DEVICE WILL YOUR "GOVERNMENT" USE??? I am very doubtful that they will ban EVERY EMAIL DEVICE ON THE PLANET. Because blackberry is the only brand that doesn't have cameras...can you use a treo without a camera? NOPE because they make one with a camera...can you use an HP 6510, NOPE because they make one with a camera...I guess your stuck with carrying a laptop then...oops wait, Sony makes one with an integrated camera...BAN ALL SONY PRODUCTS AND LAPTOPS!!!!!

What will happen is no devices will be allowed into the secured facilities (which is most government facilities). There are some that already do this, and any entrant must hand over their device to the guard, and it is locked into locker. Some sites also say no radio devices unless it has a sticker indicating that it is government issue.

Granted, I break the rules all the time as most of my phones (excluding my BlackBerry) have cameras. I simply put them in my pocket, put them on vibrate, and don't answer if I am in a serious lockdown area.

I know that all of these concepts are hard for people who do not work with the government to understand, but it is just the way it is. One thing you can be assured of is that no government agency will issue a BlackBerry with a camera to their users, just as they don't issue phones or laptops with cameras to their users.

Now, having said all that, not all government agencies are alike, and not even all sites within an agency are alike. Some sites enact very stringent rules, and some sites don't enforce any rules. It all depends.

Boy Genius 03-28-2006 08:00 PM

[quote=dc/dc] One thing you can be assured of is that no government agency will issue a BlackBerry with a camera to their users, just as they don't issue phones or laptops with cameras to their users. [quote]

Right that is completely understandable

Here is your previous post I am responding to...

[quote=dc/dc] The United States Federal Government is the single largest customer of BlackBerry handheld devices in the world. If I camera is installed in them, RIM will likely lose the federal government as a customer. So no, they won't gain more than they lose. Sorry. [quote]

I just doubt like you said earlier the ENTIRE goverment will drop RIM because one of the devices out of 20 they offer contains a camera. That was simply my point.

dc/dc 03-28-2006 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boygenius
Quote:

Originally Posted by dc/dc
One thing you can be assured of is that no government agency will issue a BlackBerry with a camera to their users, just as they don't issue phones or laptops with cameras to their users.

Right that is completely understandable

Here is your previous post I am responding to...

Quote:

Originally Posted by dc/dc
The United States Federal Government is the single largest customer of BlackBerry handheld devices in the world. If I camera is installed in them, RIM will likely lose the federal government as a customer. So no, they won't gain more than they lose. Sorry.

I just doubt like you said earlier the ENTIRE goverment will drop RIM because one of the devices out of 20 they offer contains a camera. That was simply my point.

I guess the way I said it wasn't the best way. It really should have said that they (RIM) will lose a significant portion of their public sector business by adding a device with a camera. The whole kitten caboodle may not totally drop RIM, but they will be much more hesitant to purchase the devices, and many agencies will in fact drop the devices and look for alternative means of push e-mail.

The problem with the government when it comes to IT is they make rash decisions. I'll bet my portfolio that there will be at least one upper manager who hears that BlackBerries now have cameras and will totally ban them from their site.

Boy Genius 03-28-2006 10:29 PM

Yeah you definatly could be right about that, and your not wrong at where you work/have worked. I can't argue that, I just thought your statement about them losing the biggest client was an overstatement. Thanks for your information though, it is very valueable.

dc/dc 03-28-2006 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boygenius
Yeah you definatly could be right about that, and your not wrong at where you work/have worked. I can't argue that, I just thought your statement about them losing the biggest client was an overstatement. Thanks for your information though, it is very valueable.

No problem. Sorry I wasn't clear on what I really meant.

Good_Guy 03-29-2006 09:47 AM

Just a thought, but due to the large volume of business that RIM does with the government, I would think they would make a way to disable the camera on a device that has one.

jibi 03-29-2006 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Good_Guy
Just a thought, but due to the large volume of business that RIM does with the government, I would think they would make a way to disable the camera on a device that has one.

not to mention that, as of BES 4.1, you can now define which devices can be added to the BES and which cannot. if it wasn't defined as a device that could be added, then the user can't simply go out and get a new device and activate it on their own.

KonTiki 03-29-2006 10:06 AM

[Quote Good_Guy]Originally Posted by Good_Guy
Just a thought, but due to the large volume of business that RIM does with the government, I would think they would make a way to disable the camera on a device that has one.[/quote]

Ok thats a good one, now for the easy part, try and convince a 5.95/Hr Rent-A-Cop that your Camera in your BlackBerry is disabled, and even if it is and you could prove it that once you are in the building either with a phone call or just a simple server command from outside the camera would be reactivated, good luck on that one.

dc/dc 03-29-2006 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KonTiki
Ok thats a good one, now for the easy part, try and convince a 5.95/Hr Rent-A-Cop that your Camera in your BlackBerry is disabled, and even if it is and you could prove it that once you are in the building either with a phone call or just a simple server command from outside the camera would be reactivated, good luck on that one.

Unfortunately you are right.

KonTiki 03-29-2006 11:45 AM

I was dead set against cameras in BBs from my own experiences, then I started to say OK, as long as there is a clear option for the ones that do not want it, but the real issue is that we are not dealing with rocket scientists at these security points, and now as it is BBs are hardly checked because it is know that they do not have the cameras, I am sure though that once they have cameras available that whole matter may and will change for most of us. Now, if RIM does decide to delve into this area which is certainly their right, my suggestion would be for the Camera BlackBerrys to be handled by a separate division of the company and marketed with a completely separate trademark, thus leaving the earned reputation the BlackBerry name has so hard fought to establish and maintain, otherwise in a day all of it is history.

dc/dc 03-29-2006 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KonTiki
I was dead set against cameras in BBs from my own experiences, then I started to say OK, as long as there is a clear option for the ones that do not want it, but the real issue is that we are not dealing with rocket scientists at these security points, and now as it is BBs are hardly checked because it is know that they do not have the cameras, I am sure though that once they have cameras available that whole matter may and will change for most of us. Now, if RIM does decide to delve into this area which is certainly their right, my suggestion would be for the Camera BlackBerrys to be handled by a separate division of the company and marketed with a completely separate trademark, thus leaving the earned reputation the BlackBerry name has so hard fought to establish and maintain, otherwise in a day all of it is history.

That is not a bad idea at all!

Good_Guy 03-29-2006 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KonTiki
Ok thats a good one, now for the easy part, try and convince a 5.95/Hr Rent-A-Cop that your Camera in your BlackBerry is disabled, and even if it is and you could prove it that once you are in the building either with a phone call or just a simple server command from outside the camera would be reactivated, good luck on that one.

Good point.

starling72 03-30-2006 09:24 AM

[quote=dc/dc]One thing you can be assured of is that no government agency will issue a BlackBerry with a camera to their users, just as they don't issue phones or laptops with cameras to their users.QUOTE]

I have a close relative who has worked for the Feds for 20+ years and, while he agrees that gov't IT often gets it wrong, he doesn't believe they'll ban ALL BlackBerrys from being issued just because ONE model comes with a camera. He's pretty sure (since they apparently don't allow personal devices) that gov't employees will still be issued the model(s) that don't have a camera and all contractors/non-employees will be req'd to check mobile devices at the door, especially in the high-security bldgs.

FWIW, he's been known to be wrong a few times, but generally has a good sense for how his particular agency sets policy on stuff like this.

dc/dc 03-30-2006 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by starling72
Quote:

Originally Posted by dc/dc
One thing you can be assured of is that no government agency will issue a BlackBerry with a camera to their users, just as they don't issue phones or laptops with cameras to their users.

I have a close relative who has worked for the Feds for 20+ years and, while he agrees that gov't IT often gets it wrong, he doesn't believe they'll ban ALL BlackBerrys from being issued just because ONE model comes with a camera. He's pretty sure (since they apparently don't allow personal devices) that gov't employees will still be issued the model(s) that don't have a camera and all contractors/non-employees will be req'd to check mobile devices at the door, especially in the high-security bldgs.

FWIW, he's been known to be wrong a few times, but generally has a good sense for how his particular agency sets policy on stuff like this.

The post you quoted doesn't dispute that.

Some agencies would issue the devices without cameras, others would not issue any of them.

starling72 03-30-2006 09:44 AM

His agency typically falls in line with 90% of the others when it comes to setting IT policy, so for anyone to broadly state that a large chunk of agencies would stop issuing ALL BlackBerrys due to a single model with a camera is somewhat misleading. JMHO, don't take offense...you're entitled to yours, too! :)

dc/dc 03-30-2006 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by starling72
His agency typically falls in line with 90% of the others when it comes to setting IT policy, so for anyone to broadly state that a large chunk of agencies would stop issuing ALL BlackBerrys due to a single model with a camera is somewhat misleading. JMHO, don't take offense...you're entitled to yours, too! :)

I didn't take offence.

However, the post you quoted DID NOT state that a large chunk of agencies would stop issuing BlackBerries if there was one with a camera. Yes, it was stated earlier, but I backed away from that stance a little bit. In addition, the agency I am using reference, the US Dept. of State, is larger than 90% of the other gov't agencies, and they almost certainly would stop issuing BlackBerries. Heck, they even disable Bluetooth in the ones they issue now, and you can't do anything with that other than use a headset!

SMorganPhoto 03-30-2006 10:01 AM

If it has a camera, maybe RIM should add the ability to disable it via IT Policy.

Argument done with, I win.

SMorganPhoto 03-30-2006 10:07 AM

Ok so someone posted my idea already.

We have security oficers that roam our building. We can have personal phones, as long as they do not have cameras or wifi. And we can have the ones with cameras, as long as they are turned off inside the rooms.

We have security officers that walk the building and will nab up your phone with a camera if they see it turned on and outside of your pocket.

In our case, personal Blackberries would fall under the personal phone rules, and network Blackberries would of course have the IT Policy set to disable the camera.

starling72 03-30-2006 10:38 AM

I know, and it's sad that they would (and likely will) ban them when there are a couple of ways (physical security and BES IT policies) to mitigate it without having to spend the time and money to rip and replace. Typical Fed Gov't, though...I agree with that!

I like the idea of RIM branding their camera devices competely differently than their other devices...that would make our lives easier. My company doesn't allow camera-enabled devices in certain areas, either (financial services), and this is bound to be a big issue for us if it is in fact true.

dc/dc 03-30-2006 10:44 AM

The obvious target with a camera device is teenagers, so they'll need to come up with a cutesy new brand name to compete with hiptop since kids associate BlackBerry with stodgy old men.

KonTiki 03-30-2006 11:20 AM

Remember the StrawBerry Shortcake dolls, How about the new line called StrawBerrys, it keeps in line with the Berry theme, hahahaha.

Boy Genius 03-30-2006 11:42 AM

I highly doubt there will be a different name for the rumored camera blackberry. RIM has built up the name BlackBerry so well that it is a household brand now, there is no reason to confuse potential consumers with a new name, I will bet anyone it will be a BlackBerry xxxx

dc/dc 03-30-2006 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KonTiki
Remember the StrawBerry Shortcake dolls, How about the new line called StrawBerrys, it keeps in line with the Berry theme, hahahaha.

LOL!!

They need a totally separate brand from RIM to sell them under...

How about DICKS (Devices in Connected Kids Shoes)?

Jagga 04-05-2006 10:15 AM

StrawBerry - Interesting Concept
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dc/dc
LOL!!

They need a totally separate brand from RIM to sell them under...

How about DICKS (Devices in Connected Kids Shoes)?

LMAO! nice abbreviation.

I'm actually surprised that RIM didnt make a limited edition 8700 called a StrawBerry (RIM didnt begin the Blackberry knickname it was a reporter that noticed the keys resembled the fruit; RIM was smart enough to patent the brand & release a model shortly after). All in hot pink (just like the Razr, but for grown up girls/women) and a theme to match!

I'm sure there are a lot of professional women that loose their sense of femininity dressing up in suits all week that they can only accessories via boots, the odd skirt (business acceptable), lipstick, earings, and a purse. Not all professional women can goto work dressed like Pamela Anderson did at the Juno Awards.

dolo 04-05-2006 08:40 PM

BG,

As the rumor for integrated camera seems to be coming to fruition, there was some speculation (2 months ago?) about blackberry coming out with a consumer based device that would be a variant of the blackberry brand. Blackberry would still be the main manufacture but the product itself would have a different brand.

This was coupled with the statement that this device would have removable mem with video viewing capabilities, etc. I believe it was posted on BB Cool?

Any validity in regards the speculations per your eyes and ears?

Regards,
dolo

dc/dc 04-05-2006 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jagga
LMAO! nice abbreviation.

I'm actually surprised that RIM didnt make a limited edition 8700 called a StrawBerry (RIM didnt begin the Blackberry knickname it was a reporter that noticed the keys resembled the fruit; RIM was smart enough to patent the brand & release a model shortly after). All in hot pink (just like the Razr, but for grown up girls/women) and a theme to match!

I'm sure there are a lot of professional women that loose their sense of femininity dressing up in suits all week that they can only accessories via boots, the odd skirt (business acceptable), lipstick, earings, and a purse. Not all professional women can goto work dressed like Pamela Anderson did at the Juno Awards.

Problem is, many women think a girly device is unprofessional. I don't think that argument holds water, but there is no convincing them otherwise.

blkberryboy 04-06-2006 08:14 AM

From Gizmodo.com:

Rumor: Verizon Asking for Changes in Motorola Q
READ MORE: Motorola, Motorola Q, Rumors, Smartphones
News continues to trickle out about the delayed release of the Motorola Q, where we told you earlier about its late arrival, and now a source within Verizon reveals a little more. The source said Verizon, which will be the first provider to ship the Motorola Q, wants a few changes in the upcoming slim smartphone, such as bigger keys and changes in the way the keys interact with its operating system.

There is also bad news for users who might want to download gigabytes worth of data onto the Q, where the source said those users will be throttled. That will surely disappoint those who planned to use such applications as the Slingbox Sling Player Mobile with the Q.

Jaguarandine 04-06-2006 01:24 PM

Going OT again, I think there is no way RIM would risk its business with the government without taking the proper precautions. I'm sure they've already spoken to people in the gov't about their plans and have addressed the concerns that were expressed. For them to do otherwise would just be bad business.

Boy Genius 04-06-2006 02:08 PM

A client of mine has been using SlingPlayer Mobile for smartphone (beta) on his Q on Verizon and it works flawlessly. Also Verizon will NOT be limiting any type of data usage on the Q it is a normal PDA plan just like for the treo700 44.95 unlimited a month I believe. I highly doubt they are going to redo hardware on the Q after all it is not like Verizon just got it for the first time now, they have been working hands on with Motorola since the beginning.

blkberryboy 04-06-2006 02:24 PM

Boy...
I only posted the news after seeing it on 2 respected websites. I am assuming you are correct, however we can not overlook that where there is smoke ther is usually fire. I personally think if this is the reason for the delat, it bodes extremely well for RIM who has been getting beat up in the press lately. Stories about losing market share bla, bla, bla... With this delay RIM has a chance to gain just that many more people who may have been waiting for the Q and are just a bit tired of waiting. Who knows..

I conceed you know volumns more than I do, this is merely my $0.02. This is a Blackberry site so all I have to say is 8700 on T-Mobile very soon. ;-)


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