[lmlloyd]

To my knowledge T-Mobile is the only one working on supporting this right now, but yes, it would be both data and voice. From what I understand from the T-Mobile pilot program, you don't pay talk time when you are over Wi-Fi either.

[TreyS]

You'll use WiFi when you are at the office, home or in a hotspot. Your office and home doesn't charge a WiFi fee so you get VoIP/ SIP phone coverage for FREE. Think Vonage when you are home and extended office extension when you are on the corporate campus. Your phone rings at your desk AND your SIP enabled 8800, all at the same time.

When you are anywhere else, you get EDGE/ GPRS/ gprs and your calls are billable.

WiFi is the cats meow for business people.


Check out the following link (think of 8800 when you see 7270):

CLICK THE LINK--->> http://www.avaya.com/master-usa/en-u.../lb2865%20.pdf

[lmlloyd]

I think that T-Mobile's plan is also for you to have free calling if you are at one of their hot-spots, assuming you have their hot-spot service. Now how big a deal that is for people will vary, but in my neighborhood, we have three Starbucks within three blocks of each other, then a Borders a few blocks away, and two hotels that have T-Mobile hot-spots. So, you could pretty much walk around the whole neighborhood without ever leaving Wi-Fi.

[Number13]

Speaking of advantages: Advanced echo cancelling and noise cancelling. The mic on the 8700 is horrible. The speakerphone is very, very good IMO. Maybe OS 4.2 will improve the quality of the mic on the 8700 but if I can get everything I have now with the 8700 plus the WiFi and improved echo and noise cancelling then I see an 8800 in my future.

[Stinsonddog]

Originally Posted by TreyS

No.

The WiFi will enable the 8800 to be on the corpoate WLAN and utilize VoIP or SIP back to the Corporate phone system. You can extend your desktop phone to your 8800 while you are on the campus and the minutes will be FREE. Granted you need other hardware to make it work, like a SIP Enablement Server connected to the PBX.

WiFi is a great enhancement to the 8800 vs the 8700 IMO, too bad I've had my 8703e for a week now.

So how does this enable FREE minutes at home is you need a SIP or other hardware. Also, recently I was looking at Intel Capital's website and I thought I saw a company that enabled UMA/GAN billing. Not sure but I'll bet this this isnt free since you still need to connect to the cellular network just through a different access point - the UNC that is pictured here. Is that right? See this link which suggests integrated billing.

[lmlloyd]

Originally Posted by Stinsonddog

So how does this enable FREE minutes at home is you need a SIP or other hardware. Also, recently I was looking at Intel Capital's website and I thought I saw a company that enabled UMA/GAN billing. Not sure but I'll bet this this isnt free since you still need to connect to the cellular network just through a different access point - the UNC that is pictured here. Is that right? See this link which suggests integrated billing.

As I understand how T-Mobile is handling their beta of their UMA service, the plan is that if you are on your home network with a special router they give you, or on one of their hot-spots, then it is unlimited calling (but of course you pay a flat monthly fee for the UMA home service, and for the hot-spot access). T-Mobile, at least, is pitching this as a replacement for a landline service, so I seriously doubt they will be charging for minutes. Now how this would integrate with a business is more up in the air (no pun intended), but I would not be surprised if there wasn't some sort of similar business plan in the works.

[jibi]

Originally Posted by Stinsonddog

So how does this enable FREE minutes at home is you need a SIP or other hardware. Also, recently I was looking at Intel Capital's website and I thought I saw a company that enabled UMA/GAN billing. Not sure but I'll bet this this isnt free since you still need to connect to the cellular network just through a different access point - the UNC that is pictured here. Is that right? See this link which suggests integrated billing.

It really depends on how they implement the Wi-Fi technology. From my understanding of T-Mobile's rollout of UMA, the Wi-Fi connection will link back to a GSM gateway for billing purposes. This airtime used will come out of your monthly plan, or some other unlimited UMA plan (roughly at $10/mo extra).

As for the in-house or on-campus Wi-Fi, no real details have been released, but it is my understanding that these will be free usage minutes.

[TreyS]

As for the in-house or on-campus Wi-Fi, no real details have been released, but it is my understanding that these will be free usage minutes.

Why wouldn't WiFI at home or the office be free. It has nothing to do with the cellular/ UMA network.

When you are at work you are connected to your work WiFi 802.11 network and can make and recieve calls through your corporate phone system. Any outbound call, from your SIP enabled 8800 will go out your company's phone lines. No minutes are used since you aren't connected to the cell tower. You can recieve calls from your fellow co-workers over the same connection. If someone calls your cell number, instead of your office number, then yes that is billable.

When you are at home and connected to your WiFi 802.11 network, you can make and recieve free VoIP calls to/ from your VoIP number using a service like Vonage.

Also, you can use your 8800 as a SIP endpoint. It currently works for the 7270 (WiFi BB). Did anyone check out the link I posted earlier?


Also, you can have a free SIP IP-PBX at your house too:

CLICK THE LINK --->> Asterisk Based VOIP Phone System - Trixbox - asterisk up and running in one hour

[Stinsonddog]

Originally Posted by TreyS

When you are at home and connected to your WiFi 802.11 network, you can make and recieve free VoIP calls to/ from your VoIP number using a service like Vonage.

Also, you can use your 8800 as a SIP endpoint. It currently works for the 7270 (WiFi BB). Did anyone check out the link I posted earlier?
Also, you can have a free SIP IP-PBX at your house too:

CLICK THE LINK --->> Asterisk Based VOIP Phone System - Trixbox - asterisk up and running in one hour

Trey, maybe step back and explain what SIP is? and what Tribox does? In any event also explain the UNC as seen in the diagrams from the links in my post. Are you saying there is no UNC and you don't go back over the cell network but in some other direction. Why would the carriers enable that? I would think they have some lockout (like VZ's partial GPS deployment) that would prevent this. They aren't charities according to various rants and raves around here. Help us understand your point of view.

[jibi]

Session Initiation Protocol - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[jibi]

Originally Posted by TreyS

Why wouldn't WiFI at home or the office be free. It has nothing to do with the cellular/ UMA network.

1) Wi-Fi is not connected to corporate PBX; 2) home users do not have a landline or some other system to tie into. I would suppose it's up to the consumer on providing themselves with a free solution.

[HaTaX]

I would honestly think they would implement a system where the phone is looking for known wifi points and when one was found, it would initiate the VoIP session itself to a host that's available from any internet connection. The host being the UMA controler. This setup would make the most sense to me as then you would have easy, seamless handover as use the wifi connection as much as possible to leverage the speed and lower transmit powers, etc etc..

Will be interesting to see how the carriers decide to wrap up the details. I personally think having an unlimited UMA "add-on" for accounts would be the best approach, I think $10-15 is a reasonable cost as well. I would expect cingular to be $10 above the previously listed price as they seem to love to get 2 and 3 times as much as other carriers for similar services.

[Jagga]

Originally Posted by jibi

It really depends on how they implement the Wi-Fi technology. From my understanding of T-Mobile's rollout of UMA, the Wi-Fi connection will link back to a GSM gateway for billing purposes. This airtime used will come out of your monthly plan, or some other unlimited UMA plan (roughly at $10/mo extra).

As for the in-house or on-campus Wi-Fi, no real details have been released, but it is my understanding that these will be free usage minutes.

Now that is somebody who is thinking. This is exactly how Tmobile will integrate this with a users own unlimited evenings & weekends price plan, with a tier'd UMA at home or HotSpots access. This is the BEST way for TMobile to make considerable money and maintain customer service satisfaction EVEN if their network (GSM/GPRS/EDGE/UMTS soon to be) goes down.

Originally Posted by jibi

Wi-Fi is not connected to corporate PBX

Im willing to bet that with a built-in app or 3rd party app will secure a VPN connection through the company's PBX switch (just like AT&T VPN software on laptops would for application/server access). I cant begin to fully understand PBX but I imagine this is possible, since the 7270 must've worked similar to this in concept.

I'm just hoping Rogers Wireless is going this route. However WiFi initiative is a multi provider movement (Rogers, Fido, Bell and Telus) are all together with WiFi Hotspot price plans for laptop access to the internet.

[Newsedge]

Originally Posted by JaxDomino

I was told by one of our Cingular Reps in Atlanta, that Cingular will be releasing a Treo with BlackBerry Connect around the November time frame. That's what he said, not me, just passing it along.

They have been saying that since the release of the Treo 600 couple of years back. I got tired of waiting for it and just switched to BB.

[TreyS]

Originally Posted by jibi

1) Wi-Fi is not connected to corporate PBX; 2) home users do not have a landline or some other system to tie into. I would suppose it's up to the consumer on providing themselves with a free solution.

Didn't mean to sound hostile before but you can connect 802.11 WiFi to a corporate PBX and you can have a land line connected to you 802.11 WiFi VoIP at home. If you are thinking UMA, I'm not talking about that.

802.11 WiFI Corporate PBX info:

AVAYA 802.11 Wireless IP Phones --->> Link

Blackberry 7270 802.11 WiFi connected to an AVAYA PBX using SIP --->> Link

Step by step how to configure the 7270 to the PBX (pay attn to pages 12,13,14 --->> Link


In AVAYA's case, you connect a TN799DP CLAN board (NIC card) in the PBX and that gets you connectivity to the corporate LAN and you'll also need a TN2302 MedPro board (gateway) in the PBX to convert the IP packets to TDM and visa versa. You pretty much can't buy an AVAYA PBX today w/o these boards.

With that, a VoIP wired phone will work with the PBX. You pick up the handset and get dialtone, then call anywhere, it routes through the PBX. You then add an 802.11 WiFi network that is connected back to the PBX via the LAN and any 802.11 Wireless VoIP device will work, like the Blackberry 7270 or 8800. You get dialtone and the call routes back through the PBX, not the cell tower.

SIP is a signaling method of VoIP and BES 4.0 or higher can already do this with the 7270 so the new 8800 with 802.11 WiFi is nothing new in that respect.



802.11 WiFi Home use:

Trixbox (formally known as Asterisk) runs on Linux and is a free IP-PBX that can basically do what the big corporate PBXs can do, using SIP...and it's free to download (google it). Voicemail, Auto-Attendant, IVR, call routing, dialplans, announcements, etc. All you need is a PC to run it on..or just boot from a CD. Most any VoIP device will work with it.

If you have 802.11 WiFi at your house, Linksys access point, then you can use the 7270 or 8800. You can make and receive calls from your Vonage VoIP number through the Trixbox IP-PBX.

If you want to use your local home phone line, you would need to add a Sipura SPA-3000 or Digum FXS/FXO card in the Trixbox PC. Now you can place a call from your 7270 or 8800 and use your home land line (POTS) to talk to family and friends via the Trixbox and Linksys WiFi access point in your home. They can call you as well via your land line/ home number and it can ring to your Blackberry. None of this uses the cell tower and the call is free.

Didn't mean to get so far off on this subject, just wanted to make sure you guys know what you can play with.

I can't wait to get my hands on one. :P

[jibi]

But will the 8800 be a converged 7270 meets 8700 meets 8100? No one quite knows this yet, unless you're reading something I'm not.

@ Jagga, www.ascendentsystems.com - RIM acquired this company not too long back; not sure if they're going to include the technology for free or for fee. It was a great purchase on their part, though.

[TreyS]

Oh I'm not.

Just comparing the Blackberry WiFi only 7270 and now a WiFi/ EDGE/ GPRS 8800. I may be reaching but it's not very far.

The 7270's biggest downfall was it was only WiFi and useless away from the office or home WiFi access point.

It would make no sense for RIM to not make the 8800 do the same thing.

Now if the carrier decides to cripple this feature then that is something to worry about IMO.

Time will tell I guess.

[HofstraJet]

Fascinating thread. Great links for the background info. Well done by everyone. Now I'm ready for my 8800.....

[atuarre]

Do we know what the size of the 8800 keys will be. I was speaking with a friend of mine, and he thinks the keys may be smaller than the one on the Blackberry Pearl, but I cannot see RIM making a blackberry with keys so small that no one is able to successfully use the phone.

Any body?

[mike_187]

keys are about the same as 8700, a little closeer together tho.