[test54]

The only problem that i see is that Verizon did not have their navigator service ready to go when they launched the phone. If they had it ready then their would be no issue at all. I see why people are angry but it seems their is nothing that can be done, just wait for navigator and you be good to go.

[BFEINZIMER]

Originally Posted by JRSCCivic98

When did you buy yours? I bought mine when it first came out for business customers. The GPS issue was not discovered yet. Not only that, but you've got VZW sending out 8830s to publishing reviewers (see my link above) with WORKING GPS. That's some shady isht in my book.

Exactly I bought it through our buisness channels...I knew that GPS was not going to work but hell Verizon is a bunch of...

Of course, you knwo why Verizon does this...

Heads ask accounting, how much $ can we get if we, make the small number of people that know about GPS happy, or charge $10 a month the the bunch of others who don't pay any attention...

[JRSCCivic98]

Originally Posted by test54

The only problem that i see is that Verizon did not have their navigator service ready to go when they launched the phone. If they had it ready then their would be no issue at all. I see why people are angry but it seems their is nothing that can be done, just wait for navigator and you be good to go.

Nope, you still don't get it. It's not that they don't have their navigation system ready, it's because they disabled it and won't let 3rd party apps access GPS on the handheld. The other carriers (while they use TeleNav-which btw can be downloaded and installed on a 8830, they have an OTA download for it apperently) don't restrict access from 3rd party apps to the GPS. That's the problem I have. If GPS works and it's free, but the app support for using is just sucks on 3rd party solution, while VZW had a "pay for" software to make better use of it then I would have ZERO issues. The problem I have is that I bought a device which has certain capabilities which were MADE/BUILT BY THE MAKER OF THE DEVICE which a "selling party" decided to take out until they decided to put it back in and charge me to use it. I bought the device and everything it encompasses (hardware/software). I own it and EXPECT it to work the way it was designed to work. I can't belive there is no legislation restricting cell phone carriers from making changes to device prior to sale. It's illegal to do crap like that for other goods, why not cell phones?

[JRSCCivic98]

Originally Posted by BFEINZIMER

Of course, you knwo why Verizon does this...

Heads ask accounting, how much $ can we get if we, make the small number of people that know about GPS happy, or charge $10 a month the the bunch of others who don't pay any attention...

Oh yeah, I think everyone knows... it doesn't take a genius to realize this and it amuses me that VZW thinks everyone is stupid enough to buy their CSR excuses about "It conflicts with something else so we had to disable it" BS line. Yeah, it conflicts with their bottom line! Fuggers. I don't even have an issue if VZW wanted to sell the device at FULL price or higher is they wanted to turn a profit, but disabling key features of the device to sell them later for more money is BS. Maybe RIM needs to take every single component in the device (hardware/software) and mark it as "Not for individual resale". When you think about it, RIM is just as much to blame for this as VZW is. RIM gave in on the "disable the GPS" request to make a sale... Mind you, "The largest sale to date" as documented for the order VZW placed on the 8830's from RIM. It was the largest order VZW ever placed and the largest RIM ever received. Of course RIM looked the other way (towards the bottom line) when they read the contract that stated VZW wants RIM to disable GPS on the 8830 prior to branding. This is why I despise corporate suits. They never look at the entire picture of things, just the immediate bottom line figures. Well, when this blows into a lawsuit for them maybe they'll rethink things next time they are sitting at that negotiations table.

[test54]

verizon is not required to allow 3rd party anything. I do not understand why you insist on saying that they have to allow 3rd party gps app? When the device was released did you not have the customary time where you could return it?

I understand that you feel duped but I dont see how you can think you can force Verizon to do anything. They will release their program when its ready and thats that, its a waste of time and energy to keep insisting they did something wrong, maybe not a good PR choice but it definitely withing their rights to run their business as they choose.

And your arguement about RIM is no good unless you bought it directly from RIM.

Thank you for saying I still don't get it but I believe I do.
The constant thread of lawsuits are getting old and I for one dont see why the mods dont merge them into one thread.

[JRSCCivic98]

Originally Posted by test54

verizon is not required to allow 3rd party anything. I do not understand why you insist on saying that they have to allow 3rd party gps app? When the device was released did you not have the customary time where you could return it?

I understand that you feel duped but I dont see how you can think you can force Verizon to do anything. They will release their program when its ready and thats that, its a waste of time and energy to keep insisting they did something wrong, maybe not a good PR choice but it definitely withing their rights to run their business as they choose.

And your arguement about RIM is no good unless you bought it directly from RIM.

Thank you for saying I still don't get it but I believe I do.
The constant thread of lawsuits are getting old and I for one dont see why the mods dont merge them into one thread.

Why is Verizon then the ONLY carrier to not allow 3rd party apps (I don't think you can even say that Blackberry Maps is 3rd party really) to access the GPS in their 8830s? Answer that....

And please stop with the same questions of "Why didn't you return the phone when you discovered GPS wasn't working?". I have Verizon because their network is reliable and the phone fills my needs for what I need it to do. What I don't agree with is VZW disabling things on the phone I paid to have. RIM designed the phone with GPS, I paid to have that "chip" in working order. That is all that matters in my eyes. I'm no leasing the phone from VZW so VZW has no legal right to sell me a "watered down verison" of the 8830 simply because they want to use that as a money making scheme at a later time. If I was to return it, what other PDA phone would I get from VZW that has native GPS onboard? Oh yeah, NONE, BECAUSE THEY DISABLED IT ON ALL THEIR FREAKING PHONES!!!

[test54]

Its their choice. That the only answer that matters...

[JRSCCivic98]

That choice is driven by the need to make money off a feature that they do not own the rights to. That is where all this is coming from.

[test54]

"they dont own the rights to?"
RIM did sell them to Verizon did they not? Then Verizon did sell it to you right?
RIM and Verizon can do what they want with the devices.

Their motive for doing this is obvious, everyone knows that they want the revenue by making you use their product, but thats their choice.

[Steve-hose]

I am not a lawyer but being "GPS capable" doesn't mean that it will work right out of the box without additional services/software. It's up to Vz to make it capable. Cheesy, yes, Class Action, doubtful.

[xtopramen78]

Originally Posted by JRSCCivic98

That's the whole point. The "product" as release by "RIM" does have this feature. The "product" as "resold" by "Verizon and ONLY Verizon" does not have this feature. Not only that, but every single freaking Blackberry that has GPS built in and sold by Verizon has had it's GPS disabled. How is this "alright" by everyone's standards? Someone explain that to me? I think you all are just brainwashed.

BTW, ABC Car Dealership has a brand spanking new BMW530 with factory cruise control to sell you.... unfortunatly they've disabled the cruise control until they feel like they can charge you to use it. Would you agree with something like this? I didn't think so.

Product as release by RIM, sure. Go buy one from them then. But if you want service ON that product THROUGH Verizon, I'd double check whether the features that you want are available from that service provider.

I don't think it's "alright". In fact I think it's misleading. But I don't think it's class-action worthy either. It's a simple thing that if you just ask at the store, they will tell you "No GPS" plain and simple. You know what they say about assuming...

I guess I just don't see it different as selling a 100GB Hard Drive (on which you cannot store a 100GB file), or the advertised gas mileage on a car, or battery life on a laptop.

Not all of those are achievable and of the things that are, some require very specific environmental conditions. If you don't like the fact it doesn't have GPS and you MUST have it, why not return it and get a phone that can get you the GPS you oh so desire and require?

[ArgonNJ]

Originally Posted by JRSCCivic98

That choice is driven by the need to make money off a feature that they do not own the rights to. That is where all this is coming from.

The choice is easy, don't use Verizon. Vote with your dollar. I will never use Verizon personally due to their constant fleecing of their customers.

[John Clark]

Originally Posted by JRSCCivic98

Why is Verizon then the ONLY carrier to not allow 3rd party apps (I don't think you can even say that Blackberry Maps is 3rd party really) to access the GPS in their 8830s? Answer that....

And please stop with the same questions of "Why didn't you return the phone when you discovered GPS wasn't working?". I have Verizon because their network is reliable and the phone fills my needs for what I need it to do. What I don't agree with is VZW disabling things on the phone I paid to have. RIM designed the phone with GPS, I paid to have that "chip" in working order. That is all that matters in my eyes. I'm no leasing the phone from VZW so VZW has no legal right to sell me a "watered down verison" of the 8830 simply because they want to use that as a money making scheme at a later time. If I was to return it, what other PDA phone would I get from VZW that has native GPS onboard? Oh yeah, NONE, BECAUSE THEY DISABLED IT ON ALL THEIR FREAKING PHONES!!!

Yawn...

[BFEINZIMER]

oh god look what ive done haha

[xtopramen78]

Originally Posted by JRSCCivic98

Why is Verizon then the ONLY carrier to not allow 3rd party apps (I don't think you can even say that Blackberry Maps is 3rd party really) to access the GPS in their 8830s? Answer that....

And please stop with the same questions of "Why didn't you return the phone when you discovered GPS wasn't working?". I have Verizon because their network is reliable and the phone fills my needs for what I need it to do. What I don't agree with is VZW disabling things on the phone I paid to have. RIM designed the phone with GPS, I paid to have that "chip" in working order. That is all that matters in my eyes. I'm no leasing the phone from VZW so VZW has no legal right to sell me a "watered down verison" of the 8830 simply because they want to use that as a money making scheme at a later time. If I was to return it, what other PDA phone would I get from VZW that has native GPS onboard? Oh yeah, NONE, BECAUSE THEY DISABLED IT ON ALL THEIR FREAKING PHONES!!!

Maybe I'm confused. Did VZW initially have GPS capabilities and then they removed it later?

As far as I know, since i've had mine, I knew (because I asked) that GPS was never part of the deal but that it could be later. So how could I then argue that I paid for GPS when it was never part of the deal to begin with?

[JRSCCivic98]

I don't think you guys will ever grasp the idea here. Go out and search for the v710 lawsuit for Bluetooth that Verizon had. It's basically the same thing as this. They stripped some of the Bluetooth profiles to not allow file transfers and other things (read: crippled features). This is really no different. Same carrier, same old tricks, except this time it's GPS and not Bluetooth, that's the only difference, nothing else. Also, I'll remind everyone again, there's no GPS capable PDA (like a Blackberry) available from Verizon. This is not because they don't have any PDAs that don't have GPS built in, it's because they disabled GPS on them.

Originally Posted by Steve-hose

I am not a lawyer but being "GPS capable" doesn't mean that it will work right out of the box without additional services/software. It's up to Vz to make it capable. Cheesy, yes, Class Action, doubtful.

Clearly you have no idea what the RIM 8830 is capable of when it leaves the factory. Your Sprint 8830 can run BBMaps or Google Maps or whatever other freaking GPS mapping software you want to load on it and it will work. This is not because Sprint did something special to make GPS work, this is because Sprint DIDN'T cripple the phone.

No wonder it's so freaking simple for VZW to get away with crap like this... everyone's so out of it, they'll buy anything the company says.

Originally Posted by xtopramen78

It's a simple thing that if you just ask at the store, they will tell you "No GPS" plain and simple. You know what they say about assuming...

I guess I just don't see it different as selling a 100GB Hard Drive (on which you cannot store a 100GB file), or the advertised gas mileage on a car, or battery life on a laptop.

How many chat conversations and phone conversations have been posted through the forums (not neccesseraly here, but other websites, search) where even CSRs didn't know what the phone can and can't do.

Your HD and Gas mileage cannot be used in comparison here because those are linked to something you should be able to measure, not a capability. In other words, if we were complaining about the 8830's battery life, then you could use those comparisons. BTW, you do know that you can acutally store a 100GB file on a 100GB drive right? You just won't be using one of the more known file systems to do so. It's the file system on the drive that governs file vs allocation sizes, nothing else.

[John Clark]

Originally Posted by JRSCCivic98

I don't think you guys will ever grasp the idea here.

This is getting ridiculous. Yes, the phone has GPS capability. Yes, Verizon cripples it. We get the idea. If you don't like it, don't buy it. Write to the president if you must. You've posted your opinion already. No need to keep posting it and posting it and posting it. Give it a rest.

[JRSCCivic98]

Originally Posted by John Clark

Write to the president if you must.

Now there's a man who definatly won't get it...

[JSanders]

John--you don't get it, because you forget that the Prez/CEO of Verizon actually checks this forum each day to see where he stands.

[John Clark]

I'm going to ban him if he doesn't unlock the GPS!!!! *rants* "GPS GPS GPS GPS GPS"