[caneau]

I have a BB8800 on T-Mobile right now. My phone's getting a bit long in tooth as I got my 8800 the week it hit T-Mo stores, but it still works reasonably well. If all the rumors are true that the Javelin will be an EDGE-only device, apart from the larger screen, slightly faster processor, and a bit more memory, why upgrade? Why spend $200 or $300 on a phone that provides almost identical functionality as a Curve or an 8820?

Look at the history...7200 to 7100 - big jump with the color screen, Suretype, etc. 7100 to the 8700 and then Pearl, again a substantial jump in screen size, processor speed, and size. 8700 to 8800/8820, added the GPS, trackball, and eventually WiFi, plus a smaller form factor. The Curve took the internals of the 8800 series, made them smaller, and added the 3.5mm jack an camera. That again made sense, 8800 was more business oriented while the 8300 was more consumer oriented. With each step, RIM tried to push the technology envelope and pack more things into a smartphone.

I bought my 8800 when it was the pinnacle of smartphone technology. It had the nicest screen, a fast processor, GPS, and of course BB's great email integration. As expected, other phones over the last two years have caught up. Screens have gotten sharper, processors faster, now almost every phone has GPS and WiFi, and even Gmail integration rivals push.

And now we get to today. There's just nothing really new that the 8900 has to offer that most users will notice apart from the nicer screen. There's no sexy iPhone or Storm-like touchscreen interface. There's no 3G. There's no open source software or internal compass like the G1. In fact, RIM went away from the global standard Mini-USB and replaced it with a Micro-USB that very few devices use. All in all, it looks to be a mediocre phone with a nice screen.

I like T-Mobile. I like BlackBerry. Their combined offerings though are underwhelming and I'm starting to really feel the pull of Verizon and the Storm or staying with T-Mobile and getting the G1. With either of those phones, I know I'll have a device that will be respectable a year or two especially as US 3G networks expand. The same can't be said for the 8900. It's a phone that will undoubtedly be out-classed six months after its release.

[strike2tamu]

Wirelessly posted (8100 Strike 2)

You are forgetting the atomic ball.

[caneau]

Originally Posted by strike2tamu

Wirelessly posted (8100 Strike 2)

You are forgetting the atomic ball.

Oh, right, good point. That'll really put people over the edge (no pun intended), a slightly nicer trackball.

Surprisingly enough, I never had a problem with the 8800's track ball. I clean it every so often but it still works fairly smoothly. Go figure, I must be one of the lucky ones.

[ezrunner]

Wirelessly posted (off to see the wizard)

Micro-usb is becoming the industry standard more devices have it than the mini-usb now

[ifonline]

Originally Posted by caneau

I like T-Mobile. I like BlackBerry. Their combined offerings though are underwhelming and I'm starting to really feel the pull of Verizon and the Storm or staying with T-Mobile and getting the G1. With either of those phones, I know I'll have a device that will be respectable a year or two especially as US 3G networks expand. The same can't be said for the 8900. It's a phone that will undoubtedly be out-classed six months after its release.

Horses for courses. I believe the Javelin is a pretty substantial upgrade over the original Curve, as is the Bold over the 8800. The Javelin is not targeted to replace the 8800 that you have, however, so if you want the biggest jump, get the Bold.

[strike2tamu]

Originally Posted by caneau

Oh, right, good point. That'll really put people over the edge (no pun intended), a slightly nicer trackball.

Surprisingly enough, I never had a problem with the 8800's track ball. I clean it every so often but it still works fairly smoothly. Go figure, I must be one of the lucky ones.

I was being sarcastic...the Javelin is a huge upgrade considering t-mobile and 3G are no where near up to par compared to other companies. I am getting it to switch from sure type to qwerty and just the plain fact that I am ready for a new device and this is the one that suits me best. If you don't feel like its much of an upgrade from the 88XX, then don't upgrade.

[Stinsonddog]

T Mobile has only one of two of the GSM bands in the US. Hence you tend to roam alot if you move around. Yes they have roaming agreements but they want you to stick to there's so there are trouble spots. If you stay in one city and have great service then you are set. Why the Javelin. Will have a lower price point, extra MP on the camera. Faster processor than the original Curve but slower than the BOLD. I love the BOLD right now. For me no size issue compared to my Curve. 8800 was too big. I think it will be a hot seller for those that dont insist on 3G.

[caneau]

Some of you are missing the point. Maybe if you get a new phone every 3 months, the Javelin would be fine. I get phones to keep for a year or two. T-Mobile's 3G will be in virtually every metro area in the US in a year, there is no doubt about that. Maybe if I lived in some tiny little town in the middle of nowhere that just had EDGE or GPRS, the Javelin would be a good phone. I don't. I live in Vegas and DC, the former has full 3G coverage in the entire city, the latter will in about 2 weeks (they've already started roll-outs this Wednesday).

Unveiling a phone now that is bordering on obsolete in an era of hyper-competitiveness in the smartphone field is a stupid move for both T-Mobile and for BlackBerry...unless they really want to scare people into getting G1s, iPhones, and HTC Touches.

But hey, if pretty screens, a bit more memory, and a few more megapixels are more important to you than broadband speeds or improved navigation then by all means, enjoy the Javelin. I'll either hold on to my 8800 for a while longer to see what pops up or jump ship.

BTW, my guess on the price point will be $250.

[BlitzSix]

I don't understand why you are picking on the Javelin though...

Blackberry has exactly what you want... the BOLD..

The Javelin is for those who don't care about 3G.

In fact, some people don't like 3G because with 3G you (usually) can't have UMA.

The Javelin is MUCH better than the Curve.. Bigger screen, better processor, better camera, bettern form factor, external microSD slot, etc.

The *only* thing that's missing is 3G, and liek I said, some people prefer NOT TO have 3G and have UMA.

If you want top of the line then get the Bold... BB has a phone that fits your needs...

[TheBigNewt]

Exactly right BlitzSix. 3g is really only useful for faster browsing, and some use Wifi for that anyway (most of the time). If you're really into browsing the bigscreen Storm is your phone, not the smallscreen Bold even with 3g speed. The 8900 offers the superior screen relolution of the Bold, the smaller form factor/qwerty of the Curve and faster processor/memory better camera. EDGE is fine for casual browsing and WiFi is faster than 3g. It'll have way better battery life than the Bold, which cannot be set to 2g in such areas. Nice choice IMO.

[plakius]

I am one of the people BlitzSix is referring to ... I am with TMO and i must say i can NOT live without UMA ... I have a house at the tip of cape cod and my blackberry shows GSM in the network section ... So without UMA i would not be able to make calls ... i used to get my blackberries ATT , unlocked them, and bring them over to TMO ... But without UMA i say the BB is useless ... Therefore I can' wait for the arrival of the 8900 ... everyone boasts about how great 3G... first off with the blackberries sorry browser i don't ever surf so whatever with the 3G already .... i tried an iPhone ... 3G made sense cause you have a real browser ... but thats all you get with iphone is browser ... now i'm off subject ,... give me that bold resolution, keyboard, and camera with UMA and i will be happy ... well for a little while at least

[galavanter]

Originally Posted by BlitzSix

In fact, some people don't like 3G because with 3G you (usually) can't have UMA.

I have never come across anything suggesting this before. Please point me to a link if possible. Tmo would put all the money and effort into UMA, only to have it not work with their new 3g network?

I'm like plakius. I signed up with tmo about a year ago, waiting until the Curve was available for uma. I bought the iPhone a week after introduction, only to come home to find reception was limited to the window sill. I had been an otr trucker for years, coming home rarely. I haven't had a land line in that time and no longer want one. My previous phone was a Moto VXXX (forget), a tiny clamshell that worked fine and allowed bt tethering to my Mac laptops practically anywhere in the country. But when I could get a faster laptop card I went for it, spending 60.00 a month extra.

UMA, after a few initial hiccups in the beginning, works great. I can sit on my sofa now while my neighbors are all out in the alley talking on their iPhones. Unlimited calling for 10 bucks a month is a steal.

I have been very happy with my Curve too, my first BB. I just received a free replacement Monday from Rim after mine abruptly stopped turning on or charging.

I had to replace the trackball after my attempt at disassembly, or should I say reassembly, failed miserably. I paid $30.00 to get one same day and then paid $10.00 including shipping for a spare from ebay. Atomic trackball sounds good, if it eliminates the lack of confidence I now have toward the original.

An autofocus camera is very appealing. It's still a camera phone, but as an amateur photographer, it's a great addition.

More processing power is needed in the Curve, and if it ends the hourglass, not just by changing the icon, I will be happy.

I live a block from a corporate tmo store. I played with the G1 a couple weeks ago, but no uma, no Mac sync, no notepad, no Mapquest, ruled that out quickly. The trackball seemed to work well.

I am still tempted by the Flip, but it has the same processor as my Curve, and Mapquest isn't compatible yet (They promised me this quarter). The flip seems to be targeted to first time BB users though, and maybe they will sell well. However I have personally met those who went from the Curve to the Flip, and were disappointed. Mainly the qwerty vs suretype thing. I would also miss the key shortcuts which I have finally learned.

3g is just for "browsing"? Like it's just a meaningless diversion? I have been using Vlingo, the speech to text app. It's cool and works pretty well because it sends your voice to a server, where it is translated and returned to your phone as text. This app allows twittering, opening apps, searching, sending email and texts, etc. 3g would be a plus here.
Mapquest too of course, and weather apps.

I read (I'm no expert) that 3g improves call quality too. I want that in my new phone.

Maybe tmo and rim have their reasons. Maybe everything on the net thus far is wrong. But if I watch my money and don't succumb to the latest and greatest sickness, I will wait for a 3g BB from tmo.

To end this ramble, I am on the fence. I have a two day old Curve now, and the Javelin seems like a minor upgrade, like the camera manufacturers do all the time.

If the bucks aren't a consideration, sure go for it. If you never had a BB, definitely go for it. But for Curve users on tmo who need uma, its iffy. Caneau said it best in one sentence:

Originally Posted by caneau

It's a phone that will undoubtedly be out-classed six months after its release.

Hopefully by a 3g Curve.

Just after posting I came across this. Looks like it's official, in Germany.
BlackBerry Curve 8900 Gets Official in Germany! | CrackBerry.com

[caneau]

I'm one of those crazy people that wants everything in my BlackBerry. My wish list is...

1) WiFi with UMA
2) A-GPS without a Verizon-like lockdown
3) 3G (maybe even a multi-band one so it works on T-Mobile's and AT&T's netowrk)
4) Full keyboard with proper key spacing like on the 8700
5) 480 x 320 screen (and a capacitance-based touchscreen would be nice)
6) 600+ MHz processor like the Bold
7) T-Mobile's pricing ($60-70 fees for 1000 or so minutes and unlimited everything else, including teathering)
8) Micro-USB connection (hey, I have a collection of these cables and my camera and GPS use the same connection, why replace a good thing?)
9) Expandable memory slot (regular SD would be the nice too)
10) 2.5 mm AND 3.5 mm jack. Is this really that hard to do?
11) Reasonably good battery life similar to what my 8800 can do right now
12) Two versions, one with and one without a camera

So what if it's a bit fatter or costs $350 with a contract, which is what I paid for the 8800 when it first came to T-Mobile. My phone runs my life, the more capable it is, the more I can do when I'm away from my regular computer. I don't need my phone to look cool or be a status symbol, I need it to work and to work well. I also think there are quite a few people like me that are willing to pay a good chunk of change for the right phone.

If BlackBerry is to remain a class-leader, it needs to made the device people want. Right now those devices are the iPhone and the G1. The iPhone wins on good looks, a very nice UI, and the browser, while the G1 wins on expandability and what software is and will be available. Also, BB needs to be able to cater to the business community since that is a significant portion of their sales. I think the formula I've listed, if produced, would result in a phone that attracts business clients and regular people like me. It'd at the very least be one giant step into creating the no-compromises phone I think many of us are dreaming about.

[barbwyr]

I like my Curve, am not interested in the Bold or 3g and would gladly upgrade to the Javelin when the time came. The nice thing about RIM is they have a device for every market. Bold for business, Curve/Javelin for the average consumer, Pearl for the Cell Phone crowd, the new Pearl Flip/Kickstart for those stuck on having a flip phone, and now the Storm for the techie types.

[Shaun]

Originally Posted by TheBigNewt

3g is really only useful for faster browsing

You keep posting this same garbage, and it is in fact not "really" the only use for 3G on any phone. For many users it is low on the list of usefulness.

Simultaneous Voice & Data? 3G Tethering? Sending and Receiving of large attachments (made more important by PDF viewing and DocsToGo)? Image loading in RSS readers? Remote PC/Server Connectivity?

All made possible or vastly improved by 3G speeds/hardware.

[sean76]

I'd say BB really stepped there game up over the last 3 years! They really do have a device for every one. However when you pick up a BB it's usually about gaining the best email device on the market, and each one of them deliver that power in your hand. So with all those to choose from now, it really depends on what form factor works for ya.

Personally, I like the Curves form factor, so the Javelin will be an upgrade towards every day things including, a faster processor, better camera, video recording, a better track ball, and just a fresh new look. The Bold is appealing, however the price point is a lil ridiculous with the state of the economy. And I'm very weary about at&t's problems with 3G.

The addition of the Storm will be a hit, providing that it will deliver what people are thinking. Which is a device that really is a breeze to type on, if not, it will be a huge flop! Touch screens are not for everyone, especially long time BB users. But if what they say is true, with the clicking, and real feel of the keys, etc, then maybe it will sway some in that direction. But the real task is to appeal with the new consumer, tech market. So we'll just have to wait and see how it does.

All in all, it depends on what u really need your device to do on an everyday basis, and what feels most comfortable in your hand!
Good luck choosing!

[StarKnight83]

I want a javelin because of the memory, processor, camera, wifi, gps - ive currently got a 8100 and while I love the formfactor (dont like flipphones) I basically use it as a mini computer and so the processor struggles a bit so need that. As far as the baseband while I'd like the 3G speeds Id just be happy if tmo upgraded my area to EDGE

[TheBigNewt]

Originally Posted by Shaun

You keep posting this same garbage, and it is in fact not "really" the only use for 3G on any phone. For many users it is low on the list of usefulness.

Simultaneous Voice & Data? 3G Tethering? Sending and Receiving of large attachments (made more important by PDF viewing and DocsToGo)? Image loading in RSS readers? Remote PC/Server Connectivity?

All made possible or vastly improved by 3G speeds/hardware.

Garbage, eh? OK let me rephrase it for ya: 3g is mainly useful for those who value fast internet connectivity.

[wibbly]

Originally Posted by TheBigNewt

Garbage, eh? OK let me rephrase it for ya: 3g is mainly useful for those who value fast internet connectivity.

... which more and more applications depend on. Add Blackberry and Google Maps to the list. Maybe some apps like Facebook too? Certainly streaming video from the likes of Youtube.

In fact it's "only" basic email (no attachments), SMS, and phone calls where you'll not really notice any benefit at all.

But 3G comes at too high a battery life cost for many, and in some cases you don't have an option to switch it off either. Of course the ideal will be a 8900 WITH 3G that can be turned off at will . GPRS/Edge id fine if you're happy with neared modem than broadband speeds. They both will get you there in the end.

[TheBigNewt]

Yeah, the option of turning it off would be good. The Rogers Bold has that but the ATT Bold does not, and from what I gather it's not a firmware/OS issue either, it's a brand issue(?). The Achilles heel of the ATT Bold is the battery life, because some users' units get confused switching between 3g and EDGE for some reason (probably ATT's network, which is maybe getting better). Stick an aftermarket 3000mAH Seidio battery in it and it's Brickberry all over again (not that the Bold is small to start with). Here's hoping that Tmob does better with the 8900 when it comes out in a couple weeks.