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Old 04-14-2006, 12:42 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whsbuss
Also, there's no truth to the rumor that the BIS changes its polling time depending on email activity.
There is just 17 minutes between two of your posts, one where you told you'll test and another with results.

Disproving that 'rumour' should take more testing time.

Try this: For 2-3 hours send one email exactly every 5 minutes. You should be getting them in bursts of three every 15 minutes if BIS does not change its polling time depending on email activity, or differently if it does.
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Old 04-14-2006, 01:06 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Berry One
There is just 17 minutes between two of your posts, one where you told you'll test and another with results.

Disproving that 'rumour' should take more testing time.

Try this: For 2-3 hours send one email exactly every 5 minutes. You should be getting them in bursts of three every 15 minutes if BIS does not change its polling time depending on email activity, or differently if it does.
Sounds reasonable. I will try it. I did do testing yesterday with a collegue where we exchanged numerous emails over a 60 minute period. I did't see any difference.
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Old 04-14-2006, 01:12 PM   #23
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I don't know where this 15 min interval comes in pic. but I am on T-mo and using BIS w/o BES and get all my emails right away
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Old 04-14-2006, 02:04 PM   #24
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Default Test Results

OK I didn't have a few hours to waste, but I did do testing to better understand the BIS 2.0 polling. There is some interactivity between the remote email account/server and the BIS when email is seen in the mailbox.

Here's the results:
Message 1 - sent 14:08 Recv'd 14:11
Message 2 - sent 14:13 Recv'd 14:17
Message 3 - sent 14:18 Recv'd 14:32
Message 4 - sent 14:22 Recv'd 14:32
Message 5 - sent 14:27 Recv'd 14:32
Message 6 - sent 14:33 Recv'd 14:36
Message 7 - sent 14:37 Recv'd 14:39

POP log on remote server:
Apr 14 12:37:03 host2 popper[4625]: user jdoe remote 216.9.249.249 domain domain.com
Apr 14 12:51:58 host2 popper[7233]: user jdoe remote 216.9.249.254 domain domain.com
Apr 14 13:07:05 host2 popper[10550]: user jdoe remote 216.9.249.252 domain domain.com
Apr 14 13:07:27 host2 popper[10781]: user jdoe remote 216.9.249.41 domain domain.com
Apr 14 13:10:29 host2 popper[11042]: user jdoe remote 216.9.249.250 domain domain.com
Apr 14 13:25:21 host2 popper[14227]: user jdoe remote 216.9.249.41 domain domain.com
Apr 14 13:25:37 host2 popper[14363]: user jdoe remote 216.9.249.247 domain domain.com
Apr 14 13:40:40 host2 popper[17171]: user jdoe remote 216.9.249.243 domain domain.com
Apr 14 13:56:18 host2 popper[19982]: user jdoe remote 216.9.249.41 domain domain.com
Apr 14 14:10:34 host2 popper[22795]: user jdoe remote 216.9.249.247 domain domain.com
Apr 14 14:11:06 host2 popper[22843]: user jdoe remote 216.9.249.41 domain domain.com
Apr 14 14:13:58 host2 popper[23525]: user jdoe remote 216.9.249.239 domain domain.com
Apr 14 14:14:03 host2 popper[23550]: user jdoe remote 216.9.249.41 domain domain.com
Apr 14 14:17:18 host2 popper[24128]: user jdoe remote 216.9.249.242 domain domain.com
Apr 14 14:32:16 host2 popper[27371]: user jdoe remote 216.9.249.246 domain domain.com
Apr 14 14:32:17 host2 popper[27372]: user jdoe remote 216.9.249.41 domain domain.com
Apr 14 14:35:56 host2 popper[27800]: user jdoe remote 216.9.249.235 domain domain.com
Apr 14 14:36:23 host2 popper[28145]: user jdoe remote 216.9.249.41 domain domain.com
Apr 14 14:39:05 host2 popper[29065]: user jdoe remote 216.9.249.250 domain domain.com
Apr 14 14:39:30 host2 popper[29074]: user jdoe remote 216.9.249.41 domain domain.com
Apr 14 14:42:26 host2 popper[29471]: user jdoe remote 216.9.249.248 domain domain.com

What I think is happening is when reading messages on the BB, the BIS updates the remote server showing a message read (POP or IMAP). Notice the 1st two log entries. Polling time is 15 minutes - no new messages were seen in the remote mailbox.

Then with emails being found in the mailbox on the 3rd 15-minute poll, it picks up the 1st message. After reading the message on the BB, the BIS updates the remote mailbox. At the 14:17 poll it picks up Message 2.

Then waits for another 15 minutes before the next poll. Somehow email reconcilation is also a timed event and not real time. So unless the BB contacts the BIS normal polling occurs.

Messages 3,4,5 were delivered at 14:32. Message 6 at 14:36 and Message 7 at 14:39. So it does appear the new BIS can be interactive with the BB user. But it depends on:

1. The user reading or deleting the messages on the BB
2. Email reconcile timing

Although not Real Time, it is a nice improvement.
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Old 04-14-2006, 02:06 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joginder
I don't know where this 15 min interval comes in pic. but I am on T-mo and using BIS w/o BES and get all my emails right away
Yahoo email integration with the Tmobile BIS is a known feature for real time delivery. The Verizon new BIS does not have that feature (yet).
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Old 04-18-2006, 05:18 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by havaloc
Verizon is upgrading this Monday, however, I've looked all over and cannot find out what RIM needs for real time (besides enterprise).

The manual for 2.0 says: Depending on the email providers implementation...either 15 minutes...or downloads immediately.

Only thing I can think of is IMAP IDLE, but other than that, I'm at a loss and there just isn't any information on it.
I've researched the IMAP IDLE command to see if this is what the BIS would require for new mail notification. The IMAP IDLE command abstract states:

The Internet Message Access Protocol [IMAP4] requires a client to
poll the server for changes to the selected mailbox (new mail,
deletions). It's often more desirable to have the server transmit
updates to the client in real time. This allows a user to see new
mail immediately. It also helps some real-time applications based on
IMAP, which might otherwise need to poll extremely often (such as
every few seconds). (While the spec actually does allow a server to
push EXISTS responses aysynchronously, a client can't expect this
behaviour and must poll.)


For this to work, the BIS must be connected to the IMAP server. I've tested some IMAP accounts on our servers and the BIS connects, then disconnects when polling. Unless the BIS stays connected, the IMAP IDLE command will not notify the BIS for the email account configured on the BIS.

I plan to do some additional testing, but so far this does not look promising for real time email delivery.
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Old 04-18-2006, 05:27 PM   #27
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Thank you for checking this out. I wonder if VZ's BIS is slightly behind in features compared to T-Mobiles (T-Mob has the real time Yahoo right now, but not VZ yet).

mobile . yahoo . com slash blackberry

It seems you have to choose between mailbox management or real time delivery at this time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by whsbuss

I plan to do some additional testing, but so far this does not look promising for real time email delivery.
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Old 04-18-2006, 05:40 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by havaloc
Thank you for checking this out. I wonder if VZ's BIS is slightly behind in features compared to T-Mobiles (T-Mob has the real time Yahoo right now, but not VZ yet).

mobile . yahoo . com slash blackberry

It seems you have to choose between mailbox management or real time delivery at this time.
Definately a possibility. Here's what it says on the Yahoo site:

It's an easy, one-time set up to get your Yahoo! Mail on your device. Get started now if you're on T-Mobile (US). If you're with another carrier, stay tuned, it will be rolling out shortly.

RIM must have setup the Yahoo integration so it keeps an active IMAP connection, if in fact IMAP IDLE is being used for real time delivery. Here's the IMAP log for an email account I just setup on my server:

Connection to complete BIS setup
Apr 18 18:27:06 host2 imapd[29519]: Login user=btest host=ten016.bis.na.blackberry.com [216.9.249.239]
Apr 18 18:27:06 host2 imapd[29519]: Logout user=btest host=ten016.bis.na.blackberry.com [216.9.249.239]
Apr 18 18:27:35 host2 imapd[29539]: Login user=btest host=ten001.bis.na.blackberry.com [216.9.249.254]
Apr 18 18:27:35 host2 imapd[29539]: Logout user=btest host=ten001.bis.na.blackberry.com [216.9.249.254]

1st Poll after setup
Apr 18 18:31:15 host2 imapd[30063]: Login user=btest host=ten017.bis.na.blackberry.com [216.9.249.238]
Apr 18 18:31:15 host2 imapd[30063]: Logout user=btest host=ten017.bis.na.blackberry.com [216.9.249.238]
Apr 18 18:32:23 host2 imapd[30120]: Login user=btest host=bda041.bis.na.blackberry.com [216.9.249.41]
Apr 18 18:32:24 host2 imapd[30120]: Logout user=btest host=bda041.bis.na.blackberry.com [216.9.249.41]

Notice the Logout for both blackberry hosts. IMAP IDLE won't work without a connection. When I use Outlook to access this email account, I stay connected until the BIS polls.
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Old 04-18-2006, 09:19 PM   #29
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While it'd be nice if they used an industry standard, I think they probably went proprietary on the Yahoo thing, if not to reduce load.

Quote:
Originally Posted by whsbuss
RIM must have setup the Yahoo integration so it keeps an active IMAP connection, if in fact IMAP IDLE is being used for real time delivery. Here's the IMAP log for an email account I just setup on my server:
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Old 04-19-2006, 07:18 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by havaloc
While it'd be nice if they used an industry standard, I think they probably went proprietary on the Yahoo thing, if not to reduce load.
I believe you're correct. If they didn't logout the IMAP session can you imaging all those connected TCP sockets in their network? There must be a proprietary TCP port (like the BES 3101) that gets a notification telling the BIS to poll the account. RIM most likely sees this as a potential revenue stream with ISP who want to provide Blackberry real time delivery. Lets hope I'm wrong.
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Old 04-27-2006, 02:03 AM   #31
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Are there any other providers that have real time aside form Rogers and Yahoo?
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Old 04-27-2006, 01:18 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dyzs
Are there any other providers that have real time aside form Rogers and Yahoo?
Not that I'm aware of. You mention Rogers..... they have email servers offering real time delivery? Explain.
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Old 04-27-2006, 01:42 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whsbuss
Not that I'm aware of. You mention Rogers..... they have email servers offering real time delivery? Explain.

I have read here in the past that Rodgers is basically a Yahoo branded service.
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Old 04-27-2006, 03:36 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stinsonddog
I have read here in the past that Rodgers is basically a Yahoo branded service.
Makes sense. Only Yahoo's partnership with RIM is providing real time delivery at this time. I did read an article (Apr. 6 2006 interview w/RIM CEO) that the BIS 2.0 implementation with Yahoo is using IMAP. There was also mention about more BIS features in the September time frame. It was unclear as to what will/would be implemented.
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Old 04-27-2006, 11:26 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whsbuss
Not that I'm aware of. You mention Rogers..... they have email servers offering real time delivery? Explain.
A short while back Rogers moved their mail servers over to Yahoo. Effectively their email is the same now except that Rogers is an ISP with their email getting the Yahoo functionality.
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Old 04-30-2006, 03:37 AM   #36
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Default Used to get real time

I'm on VZW with a Gmail account. I recently logged in and saw that there was an upgrade to BIS2.0. Liking upgrades, and hearing some good things about BIS2.0, I upgraded. Now, I don't get real time email anymore.

I used to have my gmail account forward all emails to my vzw.blackberry.net address and it was instant communication (as soon as it hit the gmail pop, it would hit the blackberry pop, and my device). I also had all replies set to reply to gmail, and I bcc'd my own gmail account so I had a record of what I said. This worked really well. The gmail account was my email account and the blackberry account was just a dumb forwarder.

Now, I upgrade to BIS2.0 and it takes anywhere from 5-15 minutes to get my email. Right now, I have BIS2.0 checking my gmail account (and my vzw.blackerry.net account).

Basically, I just want to go back to the old way. Is there anyway to downgrade my account to the way it used to be? I can't seem to get it working like it used to if I try to forward my gmail to my blackberry account. Any advice?

Edit: It appears I can go back to the old way by telling the BB to reconcile with Web Client and just forwarding my email the old way. Still testing it though.

Edit: After further testing, it appears I got lucky a few times. It is taking about 5 minutes max for the message to get in. Not bad, but no where near the instant communication I used to get.

Last edited by ffejie; 04-30-2006 at 04:27 AM..
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Old 04-30-2006, 05:56 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ffejie
I'm on VZW with a Gmail account. I recently logged in and saw that there was an upgrade to BIS2.0. Liking upgrades, and hearing some good things about BIS2.0, I upgraded. Now, I don't get real time email anymore.

I used to have my gmail account forward all emails to my vzw.blackberry.net address and it was instant communication (as soon as it hit the gmail pop, it would hit the blackberry pop, and my device). I also had all replies set to reply to gmail, and I bcc'd my own gmail account so I had a record of what I said. This worked really well. The gmail account was my email account and the blackberry account was just a dumb forwarder.

Now, I upgrade to BIS2.0 and it takes anywhere from 5-15 minutes to get my email. Right now, I have BIS2.0 checking my gmail account (and my vzw.blackerry.net account).

Basically, I just want to go back to the old way. Is there anyway to downgrade my account to the way it used to be? I can't seem to get it working like it used to if I try to forward my gmail to my blackberry account. Any advice?

Edit: It appears I can go back to the old way by telling the BB to reconcile with Web Client and just forwarding my email the old way. Still testing it though.

Edit: After further testing, it appears I got lucky a few times. It is taking about 5 minutes max for the message to get in. Not bad, but no where near the instant communication I used to get.
Just don't configure the Gmail account on the BIS. You can setup Gmail just like before (forward to the BB address) and it will be instant delivery.
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Old 04-30-2006, 11:51 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whsbuss
Just don't configure the Gmail account on the BIS. You can setup Gmail just like before (forward to the BB address) and it will be instant delivery.
Are you sure? I have this configured now and it is taking at least a few minutes to come through.

Edit: Ok, so I just setup Yahoo email (according to another thread that should be instant). It's not. It still takes 5-10 minutes to come through. Also, oddly enough, it appears as though nothing is coming through instantly. Gtalk is no longer instant, and my bb redirector from my work email is only polling every so often as well. Any advice? I have already reset my bb, no luck.

Last edited by ffejie; 04-30-2006 at 12:21 PM..
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Old 04-30-2006, 02:06 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ffejie
Are you sure? I have this configured now and it is taking at least a few minutes to come through.

Edit: Ok, so I just setup Yahoo email (according to another thread that should be instant). It's not. It still takes 5-10 minutes to come through. Also, oddly enough, it appears as though nothing is coming through instantly. Gtalk is no longer instant, and my bb redirector from my work email is only polling every so often as well. Any advice? I have already reset my bb, no luck.
Really? I just checked 3 times today and my Yahoo account configured on the BIS hit my BB within 2-3 seconds after it hits Yahoo. Gmail never did and still does not (when configured via the BIS, not forwarded).
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Old 04-30-2006, 08:56 PM   #40
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It looks like alls well now. I think the Blackberry was just taking some time to get the correct service books. Now Yahoo is instant and so is Gmail forwarding to BIS. Cool.
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