[Homis]

If I recall correctly it isn't a matter of software or hardware in the handset. the GPS is not complete, but rather assisted GPS. In the end what it means is that the phone is told by the network which of the available sats are overhead according to the cellsite the phone is currently connected to. With out support from the network, the GPS in the phone has no way of finding the sats.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong in this.

[tomtheguitarguy]

Here is VZW's response to my email asking about them:

Dear Tom,

It is a sharp phone! My name is Judy, and I am happy to assist you.

The Blackberry 8830 is listed on our website as GPS enabled/E911. However, GPS functionality will be enabled at a future date for the BlackBerry 8830. At this point, there is NO option to enable this functionality through RIM or Verizon Wireless.

Once the functionality has been implemented, a communication will be sent stating the customer process.

Tom, I hope that this information has assisted you. We appreciate your business and thank you for using Verizon Wireless. Should you have additional questions or feel your concerns are not resolved, please reply to this e-mail.


tomtheguitarguy

[packetknife]

Originally Posted by jgb@etree

I certainly believe you as I know you've been looking into this for some time, it just seems strange that it's a 'network' thing. Since the GPS reciever is located on the handheld itself which would lead me to believe that there must be some way to activate it.

If the chipset can operate as standalone GPS versus A-GPS you might be onto something. However,

1) That would almost certainly be a b*tch on battery and timing as A-GPS makes it much more usable

2) VZW would hose the end-user

-Pk

[ibmman69]

Anyone who wants to work with setting up an email and phone call campaign to get VZW to enable the GPS on the 8830 please pin me.

[birddog]

Why in the world would RIM build a GPS enabled device, like the 8800, but put a feature in it that allows the carrier to lock it?! The feature should be part of the BB period; just like it is part of a Garmin device -- nothing to do with the carrier! I would have considered getting the 8830 for my wife who needs a phone and wants GPS -- she does not need data or e-mail. We may be purchasing an 8800 from AT&T for her -- without a data plan; but at this point, that even makes me nervous in case AT&T ever decides to disable the feature and start charging for it. I might just get her a phone and a Garmin.

[jungleland]

Originally Posted by jgb@etree

Well, based on the lack of response, I'm going to go with my original theory:

The VZW 8703e's GPS functionality is most likely locked via software (not by the network which makes very little sense) which means that one of the resident guru's around here should be able to figure out how to hack it and make the built in GPS work! I certainly don't have the know-how, but will offer a $100 bounty to anyone who can get it working for me.

Still NO! It's controlled on the network end....

[tomtheguitarguy]

This is probably not the response we're looking for, but here is a follow up email that they sent me:

Dear Thomas XXXXX,

Thank you for contacting our Verizon Wireless website. We apologize if we misunderstood your request for GPS information on the Blackberry 8830. We are happy to assist you with your question.

The Blackberry 8830 does have GPS capabilities and we are able to provide the steps to turn the GPS location on, but Verizon Wireless does not provide or support any type of GPS locating software with our Blackberry's. Please follow the instructions below to turn the GPS Location On:

1. From the main menu, select Options
2. Select Advanced Options
3. Select GPS
4. Highlight the options for GPS services and press the trackball in
5. Select Location On
6. Press the back arrow (the one on the left of your End button)
7. Select Save

But don't shoot me if the GPS still doesn't work. I haven't taken the plunge yet, as I'm deciding whether or not to go with VZW or Sprint on the 8830.

tomtheguitarguy

[birddog]

Originally Posted by tomtheguitarguy

This is probably not the response we're looking for, but here is a follow up email that they sent me:

Dear Thomas XXXXX,

Thank you for contacting our Verizon Wireless website. We apologize if we misunderstood your request for GPS information on the Blackberry 8830. We are happy to assist you with your question.

The Blackberry 8830 does have GPS capabilities and we are able to provide the steps to turn the GPS location on, but Verizon Wireless does not provide or support any type of GPS locating software with our Blackberry's. Please follow the instructions below to turn the GPS Location On:

1. From the main menu, select Options
2. Select Advanced Options
3. Select GPS
4. Highlight the options for GPS services and press the trackball in
5. Select Location On
6. Press the back arrow (the one on the left of your End button)
7. Select Save

But don't shoot me if the GPS still doesn't work. I haven't taken the plunge yet, as I'm deciding whether or not to go with VZW or Sprint on the 8830.

tomtheguitarguy

The support folks don't get it. They are telling you how to turn on the locate feature -- which almost all cell phones have. This is the feature that gives your location to 911 (which can't be turned off). She has told you how to turn it on for other calls. Except for 911, I am not sure what that is for -- maybe the Chaperone feature that allows parents to monitor the location of their child. But it is not the feature that allows your blackberry to act like an independent GPS handheld unit (like a Garmin)

[Homis]

Found on wikipedia

"In one mode of A-GPS, the mobile receiver takes a snapshot of the satellite signals and transmits these to a cell tower to relay the data to an assistance server that performs the necessary calculations for a position fix."

[birddog]

I don't know who you could talk to at Verizon about our complaint, that would actually understand our complaint.

Support people probably read (just) support material on the 8830 provided by Verizon. Those materials (I'm guessing here) don't include information on the independent GPS features built into the 8830, because the support folks don't need to know about that because these phones don't have that feature because the engineers have turned it off at the direction of the bean counters.

But you will never get through to any of those folks that were involved in that decision (i.e., the people that read the 8830 specs provided directly from RIM).

So talking the the normal support folks is just a waste of time. Who could we complain to that would actually understand?

[ibmman69]

I want to staurate vzw with emails, phone calls, and faxes. A lot of people understand the issue with the disabled gps. I have talked with several sales people who understand the issue and are not happy about it. I also think we should do the same thing to rim. We need to let rim know we aren't happy about their allowing vzw to cripple their device. We are already paying for vzw's inflated data plan. We should get all of the phone's features. If you want to join in please pin me.

[veryberry7]

I too think its ridiculous Verizon deactivated the Internal GPS function for the 8703e when sprint/nextel or Altel does not deactivate this feature.

In regards to this function being deactivated by the network, I phoned verizon blackberry Technical support, which they conferenced RIM in on our converstion.

They could not tell me how to "unlock" or activate this. The rep from Verizon said all verizon phones are deactived, and we take no part in 3rd party GPS software. I then brought up the fact that sprint /nextel/altel using the SAME BB 8703e can use the internal GPS feature that comes with this phone with no problem. I may consider switching if Verizon doesn't allow this, it makes NO SENSE what so ever. The RIM rep added unfortuantley your network doesn't support this on your phone.

The representative then suggested and told me, I cannot tell you how to unlock /activate the internal GPS feature on your phone, being a Verizon rep I cannot violate this policty. However you can find someone who knows how to enable the the GPS on your phone, which would be a hacker of some sort, and who knows how to get into the blackberry to unlock this code.

So infact THIS CAN be done on your BB. The technical rep from Verizon with RIM conferenced on the phone gave me this advice himself. This is NOT something the network has to turn on.
The rep suggested this from Verizon, so I see no harm can possibly be done in finding a hacker or someone who knows the BB to do this. The question is where can I find him/her!
If anyone has any suggestions or comments please advise.

[Dawg]

Originally Posted by veryberry7

I too think its ridiculous Verizon deactivated the Internal GPS function for the 8703e when sprint/nextel or Altel does not deactivate this feature.

In regards to this function being deactivated by the network, I phoned verizon blackberry Technical support, which they conferenced RIM in on our converstion.

They could not tell me how to "unlock" or activate this. The rep from Verizon said all verizon phones are deactived, and we take no part in 3rd party GPS software. I then brought up the fact that sprint /nextel/altel using the SAME BB 8703e can use the internal GPS feature that comes with this phone with no problem. I may consider switching if Verizon doesn't allow this, it makes NO SENSE what so ever. The RIM rep added unfortuantley your network doesn't support this on your phone.

The representative then suggested and told me, I cannot tell you how to unlock /activate the internal GPS feature on your phone, being a Verizon rep I cannot violate this policty. However you can find someone who knows how to enable the the GPS on your phone, which would be a hacker of some sort, and who knows how to get into the blackberry to unlock this code.

So infact THIS CAN be done on your BB. The technical rep from Verizon with RIM conferenced on the phone gave me this advice himself. This is NOT something the network has to turn on.
The rep suggested this from Verizon, so I see no harm can possibly be done in finding a hacker or someone who knows the BB to do this. The question is where can I find him/her!
If anyone has any suggestions or comments please advise.

I dont care what they told you its aint happening. If it could be done I am certain someone here would have figured it out.

[jgb@etree]

Originally Posted by Homis

Found on wikipedia

"In one mode of A-GPS, the mobile receiver takes a snapshot of the satellite signals and transmits these to a cell tower to relay the data to an assistance server that performs the necessary calculations for a position fix."

Finally! An answer as to how it can be disabled via the network. Thank you!

It's been driving me nuts that everyone says 'It's blocked on the network' but haven't been able (or willing) to explain how it is done.

This information makes it perfectly clear how VZW has crippled the functionality via the network and not on a hardware or software level - the device does not have a full GPS chip, but rather an A-GPS chip which utilizes the network to calculate location data. VZW has blocked A-GPS data. End of story.

So now onto the next important question.....whats the current rumor as to when they'll release VZ Navigator for the 8703e so we can use our GPS :D

[Stinsonddog]

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