[Good_Guy]

Originally Posted by BES admin

I figured you were with GL in some capacity, but not sales. I have to admit you are more technically knowledgeable than most sales people I talk to in the industry, Kudos to you.

Thank you. I amof the opinion that I have to stay as up to date as possible, even though this industry is changing on an almost day-to-day basis. It is difficult, but I actually enjoy it. Closet gear head

[sailorlena]

Originally Posted by BES admin

That sounds about right, however there is a yearly license fee for GoodLink I believe, with BES, you do not have the yearly fee to continue running the software.

I will know for sure shortly, I have an email in to GL sales and we will see what their response is. If it's what I think it is, then the initial cost for GL is less, but the TCO for 5 years is much higher for GL than it is for BES.

I will confirm later.

There's also a $5,000 per server and $89 per user fee for the GoodAccess (which is the same as the MDS service that RIM has right)? Good_Guy: can you confirm this? and with RIM, MDS is free.......

[Good_Guy]

Originally Posted by sailorlena

There's also a $5,000 per server and $89 per user fee for the GoodAccess (which is the same as the MDS service that RIM has right)? Good_Guy: can you confirm this? and with RIM, MDS is free.......

No. There is no server fee for GoodAccess. There is a $69 one-time license fee for the intranet version (similar to what comes with MDS). For the full version, including the design studio, is $5,000 and $89. Before the barbs and arrows come out, I understand MDS is free, however, you have to bear in mind that we are a software company, so we charge for our software. RIMM can, for the time being, afford to provide MDS for free as their primary revenue is generated from hardware sales. So, yes, there is an advantage RIMM has for organizations that want to utilize MDS. As a matter of fact, MDS is a more mature product, so I won't even go into comparisons of GA vs MDS. I can say the next version is amazing, but that is all I can say about it. Corey has run both MDS and GoodAccess, so I think he would be better to provide the comparisons as I have never seen MDS v4.0, nevermind 4.1.

[Berry One]

Originally Posted by Good_Guy

That was not meant to be my implication. I guess a better way to put it would be how many will go to the full contract. My guess is less than half, and I think that is generous.

Define full contract for consumer blackberry or high-end phone given for free by the carrier with 3 years contract attached.

We are choosing to diversify in product, not market.

RIM decided to diversify to a market and was successful. RIM is public company, you can find out how many consumer blackberries it sold by now.

There are literally 100's of consumer email players. That market is MUCH more saturated than the enterprise wireless email space.

Yet, consumer blackberries, 8700 and 7100 series, are hot, hot, hot selling items. Flying off the shelves.

There are over 26,000 applications available for Palm OS, maybe 8-10 for PPC. Less than 3K for BB. Which system is more open?

Microsoft Windows XP, by that definition, is the most open platform.

Good is more along the lines of any software developer that decided it was better to develop for the Windows OS than the Apple OS.

Yes, and now it will have to compete with every software developer in town. I know one HUGE that just moved in, kind of WAL-MART.

Standards vs locked down, single source solution.

There is nothing standard and open about GoodLink. It is proprietary application coded for different platforms. Internet Explorer did not become more open just because Microsoft coded it for Mac, Windows and UNIX.

You are right and we are giving BB that non-server required market. Our business model is focused on the enterprise.

It's not like you had a choice. You tried with G100 and lost. RIM took consumer market, it did not ask Good for permission. You can pretend you don't want something you can't get anyway.

BTW, I am in GL sales.

It shows.

[southwestcomm]

My point was that in order for a BB to function, you have to have some type of server on the backend (BES/BIS/BWC). Without it, a BB is a paperweight. No email, no nothing. Treo, PPC devices, etc, are true PDA's regardless of whether or not they are running GoodLink. They can get email, they can open and edit documents. It is fully functional. No, without GoodLink, they don't have push email, but I personally don't think a consumer cares if his device pulls the email down on a schedule or if it is pushed to him. Yes, there are some that will, but IMO, that is the minority. Why would a consumer pay a premium for BB when they can pay Sprint $10 a month and get all his email?

The BIS is not a server. Not quite certain what you mean here. No server based customers, comsumers small businesses, can use the BIS to POP non-hosted Email accounts. A significant feature, and strength of BB that Good is missing.


You are right and we are giving BB that non-server required market. Our business model is focused on the enterprise. Fair comparisons are BES to GoodLink and the GoodLink solution is less expensive (based on publised retail pricing from BB website):

For 20 users:

BES Server with 20 licenses: $3,999
GoodLink Server with 20 licenses: $3,480

Sprint Monthly Data w/GoodLink: $40/month
Sprint Monthly Data w/BB: $49.95/month

Again, published pricing only, no promotions taken into consideration.

Data w/ voice is $44.99.
Isn't the Goodlink pricing w/out Good Access? Again MDS is included with the BES and reduces TCO for owners.
cd.[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]

[Good_Guy]

Originally Posted by Berry One

Define full contract for consumer blackberry or high-end phone given for free by the carrier with 3 years contract attached.

You know exactly what I mean. Contracts that go the full term of the agreement. The pizza give away was a two-year agreement at $75 a month. There was a $250 early termination fee, which was more than the phone is worth. Let's see..$1800 at $74 a month or pay roughly 3 months of that and cancel.

I stand by my assertion of less than half go the full term of the contract.

RIM decided to diversify to a market and was successful. RIM is public company, you can find out how many consumer blackberries it sold by now.

Yup. RIMM has roughly 4 million subscribers. While that is very impressive no doubt, Nokia sells that many phones in a week. Which consumer market has RIMM been sucessful in again?

Yet, consumer blackberries, 8700 and 7100 series, are hot, hot, hot selling items. Flying off the shelves.

Actually, the 7100 was not nearly as widely accepted as thought and poor sales of the device was one of the reasons pointed to as to why RIMM missed their subscriber number last quarter. Such a hot seller, they were giving them away all over the place. The 8700 has been out what, a month? Let's not coronate that one as the king of the consumer market yet.

Funny how when checking Amazon's top selling PDA list (can't think of anything more consumer than that), the T-Mobile 7100 is 4th, behind the Sidekicks and the i730. And that is with rebates making is the buyer MAKES $50 when buying the phone.

Check the top searches at Ebay (consumer enough) in the cell phone category:

1. nextel
2. verizon
3. nokia
4. motorola
5. sprint

and the PDA category:

1. palm
2. pda
3. ipaq
4. pocket pc
5. gps

Again, where has RIMM 'won' the consumer market?

Microsoft Windows XP, by that definition, is the most open platform.

WIndows XP is the most widely used platform by that definition. And, it is. There are more applications available for Windows than for Mac and Linux.

Yes, and now it will have to compete with every software developer in town. I know one HUGE that just moved in, kind of WAL-MART.

You act like we haven't been doing that already. MSFT has been there with ActiveSync since the release of Exchange 2003. Sure, they are claiming improvements, but that 'Wal-Mart' is nowhere near ready for business.

There is nothing standard and open about GoodLink. It is proprietary application coded for different platforms. Internet Explorer did not become more open just because Microsoft coded it for Mac, Windows and UNIX.

Ahhh, the call of the "Good is just as proprietary BB" fan. You all are confusing a proprietary soution with open source. GoodLink runs on industry-standard operating systems. BB does not. BB only runs on the BB OS. The BB solution, the whole solution (Device, OS and application) only runs within it's own system.

It's not like you had a choice. You tried with G100 and lost. RIM took consumer market, it did not ask Good for permission. You can pretend you don't want something you can't get anyway.

The G100 was not a consumer device. Still required GL server on the backend which still required access to Exchange. No different from our solution today that isn't targetted at the consumer.

You can pretend that RIMM "took" the consumer market when you don't have it.
Q3 of 2005 Smartphone marketshare:

Nokia-54%
Palm-8%
RIMM-7%
Motorola
HP

With the new devices slated to come out in the next 3-4 months, RIMM is about as high as they are going to get in that space. If 7% of the ENTIRE smartphone market means that RIMM 'took' that market, ok, then so be it.

It shows.

Sigh....things were going so well without any flaming....I guess it only takes one.

[Good_Guy]

Originally Posted by southwestcomm

The BIS is not a server. Not quite certain what you mean here. No server based customers, comsumers small businesses, can use the BIS to POP non-hosted Email accounts. A significant feature, and strength of BB that Good is missing.

OK, technically, BIS is not a server. However, without BIS, what is a BB device? Nothing. You have to have some type of BB infrastructure on the back end for the device to work. Good does not need to support POP because the devices that we run on have POP clients already there. Yes, some people want their business and personal mail in a single mail box, but most don't.

You are right and we are giving BB that non-server required market. Our business model is focused on the enterprise. Fair comparisons are BES to GoodLink and the GoodLink solution is less expensive (based on publised retail pricing from BB website):

For 20 users:

BES Server with 20 licenses: $3,999
GoodLink Server with 20 licenses: $3,480

Sprint Monthly Data w/GoodLink: $40/month
Sprint Monthly Data w/BB: $49.95/month

Again, published pricing only, no promotions taken into consideration.

Data w/ voice is $44.99.
Isn't the Goodlink pricing w/out Good Access? Again MDS is included with the BES and reduces TCO for owners.

Add the $69 per user for GA Intranet version and add $1380 to the cost. GoodLink is still less expensive.

I know your reply will be along the lines of to do more, you have to buy the full version of GoodAccess, with the studio, will cost more. Yup. $5,000. As I said, we are a software company, RIMM is a hardware company. We can't afford to give away our product for free, while RIMM (for the time being) can. No apologies there.

Couple of serious questions: 1) Are plans to leave MDS free with the release of 4.1? My gut says it will still be free, but I had not heard. 2) How many organizations use MDS for more than intranet access? I know they do, but of the over 40K BES' out there, how many would you guess are using MDS for more than that, or at all?

[corey@12mile]

One thing that I like with the Good solution as opposed to the RIM solution is data transformation.

Basically put, you can setup filters so that when a Good client is browsing the web, or even an intranet server, you can automatically transform certain things. You can tell it to turn tables into lists, or replace tags with other tags, use it to set max image sizes or even manipulate the images on the fly (I think, it's been a while).

When we were in Chicago we did a 2 day crash course training on GoodAccess. It is a very nice product, but once again, it's an additional cost. Good_Guy, is there still a mandatory yearly service contract with GoodAccess?

The only yearly cost with the RIM solution is for TSupport, which is optional. Is this the same for Good? Can a a complete Good solution be built, including Goodlink, GoodAccess, Studio, etc be done without any yearly fees?

For instance, I have an iSeries AS400, an older HP6000 Oracle server, Exchange 2003 and BES 4.0. I can configure apps to pull data from the disparate systems and push crap out onto the handhelds using MDS Studio to develop complete data access apps. Other than the initial costs, there are no *required* monthly/yearly fees from RIM to maintain the software. Is this true for a comparable Good solution?

cd.

[udontknowjack]

What a good thread comparing and contrasting the two services.
First, BIS is a Server based solution really. There is a BES server running your Bis account. Where do you think it stores your PIN and IMEI numbers and what do you think goes and pulls your pop mail. It is a BES server run by the carrier and/or RIM.

As far as pricing Goodlink. We looked at it serously back in August as an alternative to Intellisync for all our Treos. The problem we had with it was.
1. You buy from the carrier and then you can only use it for that carrier. We have devices from multiple carriers so we had to purchase from Godd and then we don't get the carrier discounts.
2. Right now, our employees are payint $10 a month for their data access on their Treos. With Good, we would have to pay Good, something like $20 more a month per device, making service around $30 a month for the Treo users. Still less than we pay a carrier for RIM but a big jump from what people are paying now.
3. There is the mandatory annual fee to pay Good, it was qouted as $360
4. CALs were quoted at $99 per and I pay $66 per for Blackberry.

Personally, I thought after looking at all the extra Fees Good had, it was no cheaper than Blackberry. Maybe the same cost but not cheaper. No incentive to go there at that price. The whole quote for 15 users and yes, I had to get a p.o. and act like I'm purchasing just to demo as was stated earlier, was $7714. I could do the same from RIM for $4000.

[Good_Guy]

Originally Posted by corey@12mile

When we were in Chicago we did a 2 day crash course training on GoodAccess. It is a very nice product, but once again, it's an additional cost. Good_Guy, is there still a mandatory yearly service contract with GoodAccess?

No, there is no manadatory contract with GA.

The only yearly cost with the RIM solution is for TSupport, which is optional. Is this the same for Good? Can a a complete Good solution be built, including Goodlink, GoodAccess, Studio, etc be done without any yearly fees?

Yes.

For instance, I have an iSeries AS400, an older HP6000 Oracle server, Exchange 2003 and BES 4.0. I can configure apps to pull data from the disparate systems and push crap out onto the handhelds using MDS Studio to develop complete data access apps. Other than the initial costs, there are no *required* monthly/yearly fees from RIM to maintain the software. Is this true for a comparable Good solution?

As it currently stands, that is correct.

[Good_Guy]

Originally Posted by udontknowjack

1. You buy from the carrier and then you can only use it for that carrier. We have devices from multiple carriers so we had to purchase from Godd and then we don't get the carrier discounts.

That is in the process of being changed.

2. Right now, our employees are payint $10 a month for their data access on their Treos. With Good, we would have to pay Good, something like $20 more a month per device, making service around $30 a month for the Treo users. Still less than we pay a carrier for RIM but a big jump from what people are paying now.

Agreed, it is a jump, however, as you pointed out, it is less than the BB plan.

3. There is the mandatory annual fee to pay Good, it was qouted as $360

If you purchased direct from Good, there was no additional charge for the data access as it is built in to the price from Good. If you purchase the CAL from the carrier, there is nothin to be paid to Good. All billing is through the carrier. I may be confused as to the pricing you are looking at.

4. CALs were quoted at $99 per and I pay $66 per for Blackberry.

That may very well be the case as I don't know of any discounts you may have received from your carrier. How much did you pay for BES?

Personally, I thought after looking at all the extra Fees Good had, it was no cheaper than Blackberry. Maybe the same cost but not cheaper. No incentive to go there at that price. The whole quote for 15 users and yes, I had to get a p.o. and act like I'm purchasing just to demo as was stated earlier, was $7714. I could do the same from RIM for $4000.

Again, through the carrier, that is not the case. Based the data pricing you presented, I am assuming your carrier is Sprint. You could/can sign up for a free 60-day eval of Good through Sprint with no charge at all.

Thanks for the feedback!

[southwestcomm]

Originally Posted by Good_Guy

OK, technically, BIS is not a server. However, without BIS, what is a BB device? Nothing. You have to have some type of BB infrastructure on the back end for the device to work. Good does not need to support POP because the devices that we run on have POP clients already there. Yes, some people want their business and personal mail in a single mail box, but most don't.

Couple of serious questions: 1) Are plans to leave MDS free with the release of 4.1? My gut says it will still be free, but I had not heard. 2) How many organizations use MDS for more than intranet access? I know they do, but of the over 40K BES' out there, how many would you guess are using MDS for more than that, or at all?

MDS has always been included for free - I have no direct information regarding 4.1 but I assume it will continue to be free.

[udontknowjack]

Originally Posted by Good_Guy

How much did you pay for BES?

Again, through the carrier, that is not the case. Based the data pricing you presented, I am assuming your carrier is Sprint. You could/can sign up for a free 60-day eval of Good through Sprint with no charge at all.

BES with 20 CALs is $4000.

The costs I was referring to were all through Good. The problem we have is we have multiple carriers, Sprint, Verizon and Cingular. From what I was told by Good is that if I bought from Cingular, then it would only work with Cingular devices. I had a contact at Cingular that gave me better pricing but I couldn't use it because then my other customers not using Cingular would not be able to use the service. That is one of my compaints about Good. With RIM, I can by the BES from any carrier offering the best deal and it will work with all other carriers.

As I've said an other posts. I think Good would be a viable option if I was looking for wireless email for the first time but migrating from one service, be it RIM or another, to Good has never looked very appealing to me from a cost or resource issues as it would be time consuming.

[Good_Guy]

Originally Posted by udontknowjack

BES with 20 CALs is $4000.

The costs I was referring to were all through Good. The problem we have is we have multiple carriers, Sprint, Verizon and Cingular. From what I was told by Good is that if I bought from Cingular, then it would only work with Cingular devices. I had a contact at Cingular that gave me better pricing but I couldn't use it because then my other customers not using Cingular would not be able to use the service. That is one of my compaints about Good. With RIM, I can by the BES from any carrier offering the best deal and it will work with all other carriers.

As I've said an other posts. I think Good would be a viable option if I was looking for wireless email for the first time but migrating from one service, be it RIM or another, to Good has never looked very appealing to me from a cost or resource issues as it would be time consuming.

Transferable licenses is a major issue and, as I said, that is changing. The GL server is absolutely carrier agnostic so regardless of where you got it, it would support licenses. The licenses purchased through the carrier were not transferable. As I said, that is in the process of being changed. Only thing I can tell you if you ever get an interest in GL again, is to speak with your carrier rep(s), get the free evaluation and do a comparison, from installation to end user experience. You may still feel the same regarding the solutions and that is fine, at least you will have experienced both.

Thanks again for your feedback. Invaluable hearing from folks who looked at our solution and didn't choose it. BTW, how are your Treo users getting their email, etc?

[udontknowjack]

Currently, we are using Intellisync's Mobile Suite.

FYI, another big issue for us is people are always transfering cals from one person to the next and if they are going from one carrier to the next, it makes for a management nightmare. I'm glad to here that is being remedied. I'm sure a time will come where I will look at Good again. I always do just to see what is coming. I was actually a beta tester for Good before it came to market about 4 years ago. And have come back every once in a while to see what is new and weigh my options. So far, I'm sticking with what I have.

[cchatagnier]

Wow, didn't realize the CALs were carrier-specific. We did try GoodLink and decided on BES. This was before BES v4 was released. Since then, we have been very pleased with our decision.

We tried GoodLink on Sprint and had a somewhat unfavorable experience. The Treo was fine, but the feeback was:
-battery drain significant
-constantly missing calls as the device is constantly sending/receiving data and CDMA is not smart enough to prioritize voice over data
-unpleasant interface
-lack of filtering
-complicated new user startup

From the pricing perspective, we found GoodLink to be more expensive than BES. When using on Sprint, the price was comparable with Sprint charging $10-$15 per month for data with about $30 (on an annual basis) going to Good. This was comparable to BES. However, with the significant limitations on Sprint, we looked at other carriers. With AT&T Wireless at the time, flat rate data was priced at $50, then another $30 to Good. This made GoodLink significantly higher than BES. This is also in addition to no flat rate international option which we do take advantage of.

Another negative thing to Sprint (as a sidebar) is that data works ONLY on Sprint's US network. Sprint has *NO* data roaming agreements anywhere. Forgive me, but what good is a data-centric device if it can make and receive calls only while away from the home network. We have a user base that travels internationally quite frequently, and they simply turn their BBs on and it functions the same in well over 100 countries the same as it does on the US. With Sprint, there are different dialing patterns (011, or 001, etc, versus +1 which is universal across all GSM networks worlwide), no text messaging, and no data access at all.

We have moved to T-Mobile since then and have been acquiring BBs for $99 with flate rate domestic data at $30, $20 additional for flat rate international data. This includes full personal and corporate email access, with full corporate data access.

Some feedback from the IT side on GoodLink was fairly negative. Each device needed to be registered with Good before it could be activated (although this may have changed since then). This was an added step enabling more interaction between IT and the user. Today, a BB is sent to a user and requests an account on the BES. At that point, an activation password is sent to the user with instructions for activation. That's it.

Some other feedback was that it would be very difficult to maintain any level of standardization as several devices and operating systems are available. What makes a user happy, makes a difficult life to IT. We would effectively need to have one of every device running GoodLink and support would become a nightmare. GoodLink supports its specific software, not the device itself. With BES, the carrier supports the device, software, and service end to end. FYI, we do not have TSupport, as it's not needed. Issues are brought up to the carrier and are escalated to RIM if need be, although this is rare. There are potentially four different contacts for support 1) the hardware manufacturer; 2) the operating system; 3) the carrier providing service; and 4) GoodLink software. With BES, all aspects are supported through a single channel. All BBs amongst all carriers are compatible with each other and the server, regardless of model or firmware version. We have a combination of carriers and devices in several countries all running on a single BES.

Coincidentilly, I'm glad that Good is around as it does offer an option to BES and it is worth looking at for a new install, at least from a comparative perspective. Having competitors is a good thing as it keeps innovation moving forward. RIM's devices and features have gotten much better since Good's debut. As such, so has the user base.

Mobile email is certainly an emerging market and still has huge potential. I do strongly feel that unlike TiVo (which is now a generic term regardless if a user is actually using the TiVo service), RIM will continue to dominate the corporate/enterprise market. Most enterprises will continue to deploy the BlackBerry solution, with a few GoodLink installs. I believe that the consumer market will see multiple options, many of them carrier-specific. This may end up being a significant market opportunity to GoodLink as it is not device-specific.

And by the way, this has been one of the best debates I've seen in a long time.

[Good_Guy]

Originally Posted by cchatagnier

Wow, didn't realize the CALs were carrier-specific. We did try GoodLink and decided on BES. This was before BES v4 was released. Since then, we have been very pleased with our decision.

The CALs sold direct from Good were not carrier specific. The ones you buy now from the carrier are. Based on a meeting I had today, that will not be the case for much longer, however.

We tried GoodLink on Sprint and had a somewhat unfavorable experience. The Treo was fine, but the feeback was:
-battery drain significant
-constantly missing calls as the device is constantly sending/receiving data and CDMA is not smart enough to prioritize voice over data
-unpleasant interface
-lack of filtering
-complicated new user startup

BB owns Treo when it comes to battery life. No argument there. The missing calls issue is a CDMA issue, not a GoodLink issue. We really don't utilize the data connection THAT much. Yes, there is the chance of calls being missed, but that is with any CDMA device if you are utilizing the data radio.

Lack of filtering how? You can filter using Outlook rules and blocking by sender on the device.

Unpleasant interface? I have to admit, that is the first time I have ever heard that. Now, if you don't like Outlook, you won't like the GL interface, but our UI has always been one of our strongest points.

From the pricing perspective, we found GoodLink to be more expensive than BES. When using on Sprint, the price was comparable with Sprint charging $10-$15 per month for data with about $30 (on an annual basis) going to Good. This was comparable to BES. However, with the significant limitations on Sprint, we looked at other carriers. With AT&T Wireless at the time, flat rate data was priced at $50, then another $30 to Good. This made GoodLink significantly higher than BES. This is also in addition to no flat rate international option which we do take advantage of.

You must have been looking at it before we switched over to the carrier sales model as that is no longer the case. As you pointed out, Sprint is very limited when it comes to international coverage, so the other carriers (read: GSM) are the way to go for your users needing international.

Some feedback from the IT side on GoodLink was fairly negative. Each device needed to be registered with Good before it could be activated (although this may have changed since then). This was an added step enabling more interaction between IT and the user. Today, a BB is sent to a user and requests an account on the BES. At that point, an activation password is sent to the user with instructions for activation. That's it.

What do you mean registered with Good? To add a user, simple pull him/her from the GAL in Exchange and the PIN (PIN Number, not to be confused with BB PIN messaging) is automatically generated and sent ot the user. They download the stub (about 350K) from the web via the browser on the device, enter the PIN and about 10-15 minutes later, the device is provisioned, all data is pulled down and synchronized and they are off an running.

Some other feedback was that it would be very difficult to maintain any level of standardization as several devices and operating systems are available. What makes a user happy, makes a difficult life to IT. We would effectively need to have one of every device running GoodLink and support would become a nightmare. GoodLink supports its specific software, not the device itself. With BES, the carrier supports the device, software, and service end to end. FYI, we do not have TSupport, as it's not needed. Issues are brought up to the carrier and are escalated to RIM if need be, although this is rare. There are potentially four different contacts for support 1) the hardware manufacturer; 2) the operating system; 3) the carrier providing service; and 4) GoodLink software. With BES, all aspects are supported through a single channel. All BBs amongst all carriers are compatible with each other and the server, regardless of model or firmware version. We have a combination of carriers and devices in several countries all running on a single BES.

Interesting point, however, a bit off base. The carriers (at least Sprint and Cingular currently and very soon, Verizon) provide the support for the device, the OS and the application and are escalated to Good if necessary. All devices on all carriers are compatible with each other and run a single instance of the GL server.

With T-Mobile, however, I can see your point. TMO only has the Treo 600 that we support. You can run GL on other unlocked GSM devices on T-Mo, but your issue regarding support on those devices does have some merit.

Coincidentilly, I'm glad that Good is around as it does offer an option to BES and it is worth looking at for a new install, at least from a comparative perspective. Having competitors is a good thing as it keeps innovation moving forward. RIM's devices and features have gotten much better since Good's debut. As such, so has the user base.

I agree 100%, however, obviously I think a heterogenous environment with BB and Good for organizations that already have BB in place are fine as well as new installs.

Mobile email is certainly an emerging market and still has huge potential. I do strongly feel that unlike TiVo (which is now a generic term regardless if a user is actually using the TiVo service), RIM will continue to dominate the corporate/enterprise market. Most enterprises will continue to deploy the BlackBerry solution, with a few GoodLink installs. I believe that the consumer market will see multiple options, many of them carrier-specific. This may end up being a significant market opportunity to GoodLink as it is not device-specific.

I have to disagree. RIMM's growth is slowing. Yes, they are adding 100's of thousands of users a quarter, but if you look at quarter to quarter increases, they are slowing. Don't get me wrong. They are the king of this space and have been for quite awhile, but again, remember, they were the ONLY player for a long time as well. Good is only 5 years old and we spent the first year in hardware. We have grown from roughly 3,000 customers at the beginning of this year to close to 8,000 now. That growth is unmatched in this space. And remember, that is ALL enterprises with Exchange, no Lotus and no consumer.

And by the way, this has been one of the best debates I've seen in a long time.

I couldn't agree more. Thanks for your feedback re: GoodLink

[BES admin]

I have to agree that this thread has become much more than I had intially anticipated. I have learned a lot and been very interested in watching the thread. I have also been convinced that we made the right decision on BB over Goodlink.

Originally Posted by Good_Guy

Unpleasant interface? I have to admit, that is the first time I have ever heard that. Now, if you don't like Outlook, you won't like the GL interface, but our UI has always been one of our strongest points.

Well, here it is again... I also HATED the interface. As I mentioned in a previous post, the GoodLink layer on top of the Palm OS always seemed cheesy. BlacBerry is such a smoother inerface.

As for comparing it to Oulook, I LOOOOOVE Outlook and the layout, I wouldn't compare the Treo/Goodlink mail UI to Outlook, GL tries, but fails miserably in this respect. Jumping from folder to folder is REALLY cumbersome. I much prefer the flat e-mail list on BB.

Just MHO.

[Good_Guy]

Originally Posted by BES admin

I have to agree that this thread has become much more than I had intially anticipated. I have learned a lot and been very interested in watching the thread. I have also been convinced that we made the right decision on BB over Goodlink.



Well, here it is again... I also HATED the interface. As I mentioned in a previous post, the GoodLink layer on top of the Palm OS always seemed cheesy. BlacBerry is such a smoother inerface.

As for comparing it to Oulook, I LOOOOOVE Outlook and the layout, I wouldn't compare the Treo/Goodlink mail UI to Outlook, GL tries, but fails miserably in this respect. Jumping from folder to folder is REALLY cumbersome. I much prefer the flat e-mail list on BB.

Just MHO.

Obviously you are entitled to your opinon, however:

"We were amazed at the similarities between the GoodLink client and a standard Outlook client"
-http://www.networkcomputing.com/shared/article/printFullArticle.jhtml?articleID=165701547

I don't understand what do you mean jumping from folder to folder?

[Hercules]

I'll try to give a few points on which I like Blackberry and some on which I like Goodlink. I've been administering both servers for a while now, and both have their benefits and disadvantages. I will say up front though, that I am a bigger fan of the Goodlink solution over the Blackberry solution. It's not to say that BB is bad -- I just find Good's solution better. I'll explain why though, so I don't start a flamewar.

Device choice. I know the arguement can be made that a 'standard' with Blackberry is easier to administrate, and to a point, that's true. I am a huge fan of the way remote activation works (and it works well!), as well as when you have the desktop client installed, it will redirect everything properly as soon as your account is on the BES. But in the end, toys are good -- and if the CEO sees something he likes on the Treo 650 (which inevitably he did), he wanted it. And thus, our side-by-side setup of Goodlink with the BES took place. I know that the 650 had a lot of problems starting out, but with a firmware upgrade it was like getting a new device, and I can't be happier. The fact I can write on the screen and use a pointer device is also *huge*. I use my Treo 650 for remote administration of servers and such, and it's a great benefit to have the ability to use a real 'mouse' in some environments for that. The Blackberry relies only on the jog dial which for email is great, and everything else it sucks.

Administration. Goodlink's management console is brilliant in simplicity. Adding and removing users is the same in the BES as it is on Goodlink. However, when I want to have multiple admins (ie, helpdesk or whatever) to be able to administrate the Goodlink box, I can simply add them in using a similar method I would for adding a user into Goodlink. I can also specify their rights on the Goodlink server, whether they can delete, add, edit, etc. With Blackberry, I have to use SQL Enterprise Manager to get to the database, then grant rights to the users who I want to have access. It is a pet peeve, and I find Goodlink to be a lot more straightforward here.

Device administration, Blackberry wins hands down. The OS is the same, devices operate the same way, and the 'policy' is great to 'lock down' handhelds from end user stupidity. We always refer to it as the error # ID 10 T :D My understanding however, is that Good will be releasing similar capabilities in the near future, so I am looking forward to seeing that.

Email syncronization -- I like Goodlink for this. I can access public folders, the inbox, etc easily and without headache. Blackberry is very simple also, but where it lacks is the SYNC part of the equation -- I always find myself setting the option for the handheld to delete both on the server and handheld with regard to email, contacts, etc. That's idiotic to me -- I want a SYNC. So if I do something on the desktop, the handheld picks that up -- and vice versa. Goodlink's sync is also faster -- if I delete an item on my Treo, it deletes almost instantly on the desktop. With the Blackberry, it takes 20 minutes unless I "Reconcile Now". Again, I dislike that approach.

All in all, for small scale deployments I find it nicer to work with Goodlink. Hell, if you standardize the equipment which you're using, Goodlink is just as good as BES in every way. Additionally, Goodlink devices don't HAVE to be on a cellular network to operate -- I can use my Windows mobile device on my WLAN in my home, and my email works the same exact way -- without worrying about the slowness from the cell network. Additionally, and I haven't done this.. for companies that want roaming email access on their floor (ie, helpdesks, IT staff etc), they can buy devices that are NOT phones for Goodlink. They then set up a Wireless LAN and the devices run solely on that -- no cell network needed.

I admit, I am not as versed with the BES as I am with Goodlink, but I find Good's software to be more intuitive. I *like* the device choices, while others might detest having to support multiple devices -- we standardized ourselves on Treo 650s and with the latest firmware, it's been a pleasure to use. On large scale deployments, I can understand why BES is considered a better option because of that built-in standardization... but my honest opinion is that it's a bit of laziness on the part of the admins to learn the new devices. They are all very similar and differ only slightly -- so using a Treo 600, Treo 650, or Windows mobile device are very much the same, and Goodlink functions the exact same way on all of them. If they experience techincal difficulties, our IS department's policy is generally (unless it's something simple) to forward them to the cell network's support, because most of the time it's the error # ID 10 T :D and thus, I'd rather let those techs deal with our users than us to waste time on problems we cannot fix.

I think as has been said before, that there's a place for both technologies. I happen to like one more than the other, however I'm not saying Blackberry is bad in any way. It's like buying a Mercedes or BMW, or Audi. All of the cars are great in almost every way... but if you get the BMW you get more sporty, you get the Audi you get more rugged (AWD), and if you get the Merc you get more luxury. It's just a matter of preference on technologies that I think are both, very reliable and very easy to deploy, use and support.

I do however, look forward to learning more about the BES so I can get more proficient to the point I am with Good