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Old 04-23-2006, 10:05 AM   #1
lieb39
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Default BIS Email Management: How does it work

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Hello everyone,

I'm thinking about getting a BB and going on the route of BIS. I'm just curious how it works in terms of managing the email. The email get pushed to my device (All my email accounts can forward email, so no worries there) but how would I access these emails on my desktop? Or do I have to go to my orginal location (E.g. Gmail site if it was sent to my GMail address) to access the attachment, or is there some kind of 'web based online system' for the BB via BIS?

Thanks,

lieb39
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Old 04-23-2006, 10:08 AM   #2
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Basically the most advanced BIS right now is Tmobile, and with certain providers like Yahoo you have reconciliation of Sent, Trash and Inbox (read and unread). All other folders have to managed at Yahoo. Gmail is not there yet. See my Gmail/Yahoo page at my tips site.
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Old 04-23-2006, 10:21 AM   #3
lieb39
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So basically, GMail will send out the email. But it will stay as unread on the GMail system. This is how all emails that are forwarded are done. IMAP is a different case, or the same case? With IMAP, does it just check current email or does it give me my email folders active on the IMAP system as well?

Thanks
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Old 04-23-2006, 10:29 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stinsonddog
Basically the most advanced BIS right now is Tmobile, and with certain providers like Yahoo you have reconciliation of Sent, Trash and Inbox (read and unread). All other folders have to managed at Yahoo. Gmail is not there yet. See my Gmail/Yahoo page at my tips site.
Stinsonddog is correct. T-mobile has Yahoo integration and Verizon (using BIS 2.0) does not. If you integrate an email account on the new BIS "AND" your email account supports IMAP4 you will have similar reconcilation capabilities. What's not knows (although I'm still on a mission) is how the email server can notify the BIS that new email has arrived so the BIS can pull and deliver it.

From RIM's documentation:

Real-time delivery - subscribers receive their mail messages in real time, without polling delays. This feature is also called new mail notification because the email provider notifies the BlackBerry Internet Service when new email messages arrive.
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Old 04-23-2006, 10:35 AM   #5
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My aim with the IMAP Folders isn't that new mail will come through them - but rather to put email into one of the IMAP folder so that I can read the email on my desktop by connecting to the IMAP server. Becuase one of my email accounts doesn't allow to have store a local copy when forwarding.. So yeah. And with BIS and IMAP4, I can do this. Do I understand this correctly?

Thanks!
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Old 04-23-2006, 01:13 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lieb39
My aim with the IMAP Folders isn't that new mail will come through them - but rather to put email into one of the IMAP folder so that I can read the email on my desktop by connecting to the IMAP server. Becuase one of my email accounts doesn't allow to have store a local copy when forwarding.. So yeah. And with BIS and IMAP4, I can do this. Do I understand this correctly?

Thanks!
I'm not sure what exactly you're saying. With an email account setup on the new BIS, emails sent from the BB will be coped to the Sent folder ONLY if the email server is IMAP. POP3 mailboxes do not support folders.
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Old 04-23-2006, 01:33 PM   #7
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I've been through the Blackberry.com site and plowed through many documents, and still haven't found out anything. It's a little crazy how hard it is to find out how this works.

I wish that Blackberry had http://www.chatteremail.com/ like functionality, it seems I'd have to get a Palm device to get what I need.

Quote:
Originally Posted by whsbuss
email account supports IMAP4 you will have similar reconcilation capabilities. What's not knows (although I'm still on a mission) is how the email server can notify the BIS that new email has arrived so the BIS can pull and deliver it.

Last edited by havaloc; 04-23-2006 at 01:47 PM..
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Old 04-23-2006, 03:45 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by havaloc
I've been through the Blackberry.com site and plowed through many documents, and still haven't found out anything. It's a little crazy how hard it is to find out how this works.

I wish that Blackberry had http://www.chatteremail.com/ like functionality, it seems I'd have to get a Palm device to get what I need.
Its no accident that RIM is very proprietary about their products. I just hope they don't force email providers into some licensed software to notify the BIS. Wouldn't surprise me though. Someone has to pay the $612 million settlement with NTP.
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Old 04-23-2006, 04:30 PM   #9
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I think with Treo/WM5 push mail coming online, Rim will be forced to become more open, and maybe BIS 2.0 is a step in that direction. Here's hoping to a more feature filled BIS 3.0 or whatever they decide to call it. Proprietary may work if you are the only game in town, but Microsoft is going to start putting pressure on the scene (although WM5 is not very good).

Now, it would be one thing if the manual for 2.0 said something like "real time delivery requires installation of RIM BIS RTM" (some term I just made up), but it says 'depending on the email providers implementation', which leaves us an opening. Who knows though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by whsbuss
Its no accident that RIM is very proprietary about their products. I just hope they don't force email providers into some licensed software to notify the BIS. Wouldn't surprise me though. Someone has to pay the $612 million settlement with NTP.
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Old 04-25-2006, 01:33 PM   #10
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Hi all. This site has been MUCHO MUCHO helpful in the past weeks since this whole BIS upgrade. I am so thankful I found this forum, or I would be going nuts, since neither BB or VZW are much help, in my opinion.
Anyway, to my question, and I hope this is the proper forum for it...

I want the ability to "send from" the various accounts I have, and so I have configured those accounts through the BIS.
However, by doing so, since my accounts apparently are not included in the ones that "autmoatically notify" BIS, then I am stuck waiting 15 minutes to get emails on my berry?
Kind of defeats the purpose of the thing, no?
What is everyone doing about this?
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Old 04-25-2006, 02:02 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MMWinter
Hi all. This site has been MUCHO MUCHO helpful in the past weeks since this whole BIS upgrade. I am so thankful I found this forum, or I would be going nuts, since neither BB or VZW are much help, in my opinion.
Anyway, to my question, and I hope this is the proper forum for it...

I want the ability to "send from" the various accounts I have, and so I have configured those accounts through the BIS.
However, by doing so, since my accounts apparently are not included in the ones that "autmoatically notify" BIS, then I am stuck waiting 15 minutes to get emails on my berry?
Kind of defeats the purpose of the thing, no?
What is everyone doing about this?
Thanks for the compliments. We all try to share whatever knowledge we have.

The only changes the new BIS has provided is remote, one-way (bb to mail server) reconcilation and Send From integration. Its much easier to manage your remote mailbox from your BB. However, the up-to-15-minute polling is still the same as before. Only Yahoo mail has the real time delivery feature, hopefully for now. Once we know how the BIS is notified that new mail has arrived, and your email provider can support it (or you have your own servers), then we will realize the same functionality.

Then (BIS 3.0 ???) maybe subfolder and filing on the remote mail server will follow.
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Old 04-25-2006, 02:22 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whsbuss
Real-time delivery - subscribers receive their mail messages in real time, without polling delays. This feature is also called new mail notification because the email provider notifies the BlackBerry Internet Service when new email messages arrive.
It would make sense to me to have this be an add on for the mail server, hence why it's an opt in system. The mail server has an added functionality that sends a simple packet with the account to be polled to BIS over predetermined port/protocol. BIS would receive the packet, possibly acknowledge, and log in. Seems like a pretty straight forward possibility to me and would avoid the persistent connection the IMAP IDLE command would require.
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Old 04-25-2006, 02:46 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whsbuss
Thanks for the compliments. We all try to share whatever knowledge we have.

The only changes the new BIS has provided is remote, one-way (bb to mail server) reconcilation and Send From integration. Its much easier to manage your remote mailbox from your BB. However, the up-to-15-minute polling is still the same as before. Only Yahoo mail has the real time delivery feature, hopefully for now. Once we know how the BIS is notified that new mail has arrived, and your email provider can support it (or you have your own servers), then we will realize the same functionality.

Then (BIS 3.0 ???) maybe subfolder and filing on the remote mail server will follow.
Thanks. btw, am using VZW with a 7250.
However, if my mail accounts (Gmail, and other web-based mail, with no MS Exchange or any fancy stuff) don't have any kind of synch feature, or don't allow for reconciliation, then does it do any harm to say "yes" to delete "on mailbox & handheld"??? I know for instance that Gmail doesn't reconcile (yet, soon hopefully) - so when I go to delete something, should I be deleting "mailbox & handheld" or "handheld only".
Or does "on mailbox" mean on the BIS mailbox, i.e. the blackberry.net mailbox...
Which brings me to the next question...since there is no more inbox, and less info on the 2.0 interface, how do I know if it is filling up? Are there still restrictions on size? How do you know?
Truly, this has become a dizzying exercise...thanks again to all
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Old 04-25-2006, 03:32 PM   #14
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I too am on the VZW BIS and had similar questions. I am pretty sure that the limit has changed or they have changed the way the manage it. I have not hit it yet and since I have been on it, I have logged some pretty heavy email traffic, with large attachments, that would have killed the old interface.

here is a link from the BIS site....hope it works. Might help answer some questions.

https://bis.na.blackberry.com/html//...f=da_index.htm
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Old 04-25-2006, 03:40 PM   #15
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On the Tmobile roll out this is what they said:

There will be no storage space limitation on e-mails sent to your BlackBerry Internet E-mail mailbox, but those e-mails will be removed from the server after 30 days. You will have full access to e-mail content including attachments for the 30 days, regardless of the size of the files. After the 30 days, you will still have access to e-mails that are on the handheld, but not to attachments. This change ONLY affects e-mails sent to a blackberry.net address. Other e-mail services vary in their storage and time limits.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 003402
I too am on the VZW BIS and had similar questions. I am pretty sure that the limit has changed or they have changed the way the manage it. I have not hit it yet and since I have been on it, I have logged some pretty heavy email traffic, with large attachments, that would have killed the old interface.

here is a link from the BIS site....hope it works. Might help answer some questions.

https://bis.na.blackberry.com/html//...f=da_index.htm
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Old 04-25-2006, 04:17 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phetish phil
It would make sense to me to have this be an add on for the mail server, hence why it's an opt in system. The mail server has an added functionality that sends a simple packet with the account to be polled to BIS over predetermined port/protocol. BIS would receive the packet, possibly acknowledge, and log in. Seems like a pretty straight forward possibility to me and would avoid the persistent connection the IMAP IDLE command would require.
Can't agree with you more. In fact, I cannot imagine the Yahoo implementation using IMAP IDLE to real time delivery. Can you imgine how many connected TCP connections RIM would have to support?

After looking at the BIS interface for one of my Yahoo email accounts, I noticed there's no way to view Advanced options. I believe this is because RIM has a propreitary setup just like you pointed out.

It makes better sense to have the email server make a quick handshake for the email account configured on the BIS to request the poll, vs. having the BIS constantly poll every 15 minutes.

My imap logs show two different BIS connections that happen over the course of a poll:

Apr 25 16:33:45 host2 imapd[5629]: Login user=abc host=ten003.bis.na.blackberry.com [216.9.249.252]
Apr 25 16:33:45 host2 imapd[5629]: Logout user=abc host=ten003.bis.na.blackberry.com [216.9.249.252]
Apr 25 16:49:43 host2 imapd[8771]: Login user=abc host=bda041.bis.na.blackberry.com [216.9.249.41]
Apr 25 16:49:43 host2 imapd[8771]: Logout user=abc host=bda041.bis.na.blackberry.com [216.9.249.41]

The tenxxx.bis.na.blackberry.com usually picks up any new email for delivery. While the bdaxxx.bis.na.blackberry.com does the reconcilation. The more research I do on this, the more I'm convinced this is what the Yahoo implementation does..... it pops off a notification to the BIS for a poll of the account.

Last edited by whsbuss; 04-25-2006 at 04:19 PM..
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Old 04-25-2006, 04:45 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whsbuss
The more research I do on this, the more I'm convinced this is what the Yahoo implementation does..... it pops off a notification to the BIS for a poll of the account.
I may not be remembering correctly but this is what I thought I read in the 2.0 documentation. The documentation says that the email account notifys the BIS that an new email arrives, then the BIS downloads the message. Sounds like notice then poll.
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Old 04-25-2006, 05:02 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stinsonddog
I may not be remembering correctly but this is what I thought I read in the 2.0 documentation. The documentation says that the email account notifys the BIS that an new email arrives, then the BIS downloads the message. Sounds like notice then poll.
Exactly how I interpreted it. IMAP IDLE does this but it requires a full-time TCP connection. I doubt they are using P-IMAP (push) since this is similar to IMAP IDLE. The question remains is will RIM release information to ISP email providers on how to implement real time delivery.
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Old 05-09-2006, 07:50 AM   #19
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I've got another question I cannot find the answer to.

Since VZW moved to the BIS platform, now when an email is read on my blackberry it shows as having been read on Outlook. I'm not sure if the delete on handheld and mailbox feature works the same or not (does not appear to but can't be certain). So my questions are...

1. Is this the way my email management will function going forward? Is there a way to manage if/when email is "reconciled" against the exchange server (maybe different settings for different accounts)?
2. If I send an email from my handheld and set the "sent from" address, does a copy of that sent email appear on the exchange server and, therefore, in the sent folder on Outlook?
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Old 05-09-2006, 08:04 AM   #20
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And to append my last post, delete on handheld and mailbox did update my Outlook.
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