[geekman686]

Just remember the iphone does NOT have a user replaceable battery. This may not sound like a big deal, but my last ipod's battery only lasted about 15 months before it wouldn't hold a charge.

$500 ~ $600 is a lot of money on a device with a very short life span.

[alphasports]

Let's see:
- no BB push mail
- no 3G
- no VoIP
- no tactile keyboard, only a soft keyboard that is of questionable utility
- no SDK for open-source application development, so your future will be dictated by Uncle Steve
- max 8gb storage so it's not going to replace your hi-cap iPod
- no wireless sync-and-go

This phone was correctly described as an improved version of the "ideal smartphone". It has nothing new, only improved functionality of basic existing technologies.

Yes, it's really nice, and yes, I'd be tempted to get one as a toy, but make no mistake this is no replacement for a business Blackberry. It's a consumerized alternative for BB users who never really needed a BB to begin with.

I just spent the last 6 months testing the new Nokia BB-killing E-series phones, and am happy to state that to celebrate the end of the test period I bought a replacement 8700c.

[bsic]

alpha,

agreed that business users will likely not stray from BB, i think most are in agreement. I use my device for mobile email, and i will still consider the iphone. plus when i travel, i will no longer need to also carry an ipod or whip out my laptop for a movie. Viewing web pages will be unlike any other mobile phone. and the UI seems fun. That will justify me making the $600 drop on it. Im a techno geek that loves getting the latest and greatest, and that is likely the target market for this initial release by apple-- those who are willing to pay a high price for great technology.

Also remember its not about feature comparison, its about design and user experience... the iPod has no big feature list that other mp3 players dont have, and yet it still dominates the mp3 market. Its for one reason-- UI and overall user experience. Thats what gets users, and involves true creativity. Most devices will have simliar features but that doesnt mean they all get equal market share. Same with a device that lacks some features as you quote-- doesnt mean it wont steal some market share.

[brucejr]

Originally Posted by DallasFlier

That's right! Remember the Lisa! Remember the Newton! Even, remember the Mac itself - SO successful that over time it has grabbed an impressive 3% or so of its available market!

HAHA! Thats a good one . I remember seeing the Newton in the movie Under Seige 2: Dark Territory and thinking how cool it was. Got one myself and found out how much it wasn't.

[bigjay8510]

Wirelessly posted (blackberry 8700c: BlackBerry8700/4.1.0 Profile/MIDP-2.0 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/102)

I think the iphone seems like a beginners smart phone. Only think it seems to have that is important is the html browser. I don't want a ipod/phone. When I go work out and take my ipod I don't bring my phone. I want a phone with internet access, and amazing email. Hence the reason to get a BlackBerry. A side note I love Blackberry Messenger I don't need to pay a butt load for text, when my 2 best friends, gf, and gfs sister has a BlackBerry.

[takeshi]

Storage capacity and battery capacity seem way too low IMO. I'm definitely interested in checking it out but it's not competition for the Blackberry at all.

[bsic]

Originally Posted by bigjay8510

Wirelessly posted (blackberry 8700c: BlackBerry8700/4.1.0 Profile/MIDP-2.0 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/102)

I think the iphone seems like a beginners smart phone. Only think it seems to have that is important is the html browser. I don't want a ipod/phone. When I go work out and take my ipod I don't bring my phone. I want a phone with internet access, and amazing email. Hence the reason to get a BlackBerry. A side note I love Blackberry Messenger I don't need to pay a butt load for text, when my 2 best friends, gf, and gfs sister has a BlackBerry.

Why does it seem like a beginners smartphone? Please watch the keynote and see Jobs' pointed argument to why this is a superious smartphone.

Email, "real" web browsing, full multimedia, great UI, big screen, high resolution, full featured phone and calendar, threaded SMS, widescreen video, itunes integration... seems pretty advanced, no? I think the one hole for serious business users is definitely exchange integration, but i think we all agree apple isnt attacking corporate users, but more high-end consumer segments. This phone seems to fit right into that and offer ease of use unlike any other phone I can think of... IF they deliver on what they have demonstrated.

Before RIM lovers attack, let me say again, i dont think the iphone will make much of a dent in dedicated corporate solutions-- it really isnt positioned for it at all.

[I8UB4]

[QUOTE=bsic]Why does it seem like a beginners smartphone? Please watch the keynote and see Jobs' pointed argument to why this is a superious smartphone.

QUOTE]

Below are excerpts from an article in today's LA Times:

IN JAPAN, BARELY A RIPPLE
Apple's much-anticipated iPhone is 'business as usual' in a country where mobile features already are so advanced


TOKYO xxx8212; Tomoaki Kurita presides over racks of cellphones lined up outside his shop on a busy sidewalk in Harajuku, Tokyo's catwalk of youth street culture where people attracted by the riot of phone options can stop to flip open and fondle the latest models of what the Japanese call keitai.

From behind his busy counter, Kurita giggles when asked about the excitement in America over the arrival of Apple's iPhone, which can also be used to download music and surf the Internet.

"Sounds like business as usual," he says.

On the day when stock markets swooned and techies buzzed over Apple Inc. Chief Executive Steve Jobs' long-awaited entry into the mobile-phone market, Japanese consumers could be excused for wondering: Why the fuss?

Yes, the iPhone seemed to reaffirm Apple's ability to wow with design. Its finger-driven navigation might bring a new level of sophistication to the way cellphones operate. But many Japanese had a harder time buying Jobs' line about "reinventing" the phone.

"Every once in a while, a revolutionary product comes along that changes everything," Jobs said as he unveiled the iPhone on Tuesday at the Macworld Conference & Expo in San Francisco.

But the revolution is already well underway in Japan, where cellphones are used for everything. Besides downloading music and surfing the Net, Japanese use their cellphones to navigate their way home by global positioning system, to buy movie tickets and to update personal blogs from wherever they are.

They have been a natural extension of daily life here for the last few years, spurred by Japan's decision to be the first country to upgrade to third-generation mobile-phone networks, or 3G, which increase broadband capabilities and allow for better transmission of voice and data.

Apple's iPhone, by comparison, will operate on a second-generation network.

It was 3G that sparked the boom in music downloads that makes it common for phones to be used as portable digital music players here.

And it is 3G that has led the Japanese into a world where they can watch live TV on their phones and use them as a charge card to ride trains or buy milk at the corner store or take a taxi. Ticket Pia, Japan's major entertainment ticketing agency, has been selling e-mail tickets to cellphones since October 2003. The phones also can be used to conduct conference calls among as many as five people.

Another widely used 3G feature enables users to point cellphone cameras at bar codes and be directed to websites. For example, every seat in the Chiba Lotte Marines baseball stadium has a bar code, which takes a cellphone to a special home page where users can subscribe to get "inside" information and columns not available on the regular team site.

Also, every Marine game can be watched, live, on a phone.

As with other Japanese baseball clubs, cellphones can be used to buy tickets. Teams have examined the possibility of installing turnstiles that would allow ticket holders to enter stadiums by swiping their cellphones across the terminal. That technology is already used at some movie theaters. And cellphones can be loaded with prepaid credit and then be swiped at terminals to allow access to Japanese trains.

Most observers contend the U.S. has begun to close the gap on mobile-phone use with Japan, South Korea and Europe.

Music downloads by cellphone are rising in the U.S. The long-term threat to iTunes' commanding lead in downloads was a major force behind Apple's entry into mobile phones. Other functions are on the way.

"We plan to introduce one-way videoconferencing in the U.S. this year," said spokeswoman Melissa Elkins of LG Electronics MobileCOMM. The function would allow one person to be visible to another caller over a cellphone. Two-way videoconferencing has already been available in South Korea for about 18 months, Elkins said.

But the biggest difference between the U.S. and countries like Japan is not the array of bells and whistles on cellphones but the cultural differences the keitai has created.

Keitai form a cyber social network in a highly mobile society. To wait for a light on a Tokyo street corner or to ride a train is to see crowds of people with their heads down, thumbs pumping as they send photos, write text messages or play online games on their phones. Increasingly, they are reading books and manga, or comic books, on their phones too.

The keitai has also become an extension of personality. There is software to create a personalized home page for a cellphone. Young men and women customize their phones by hanging tiny dolls off them and covering them with stickers and paints.

"I like it because it's cute," says Mami Nawa, 23, as she shows off the dial pad she has painted in purple and pink tones. "And with my long nails, the paint gives me a better feel for the phone."

Nawa spent about $170 on her sharp phone, and $25 more to decorate it, though she says some friends spend much more on decorations. But neither she nor her friend Makiko Yamada, who are sampling the phones in Harajuku, would ever pay anything close to $500 for a cellphone. A hundred dollars, tops, Yamada says.

Apple might find it hard to lead a revolution with iPhone priced as an elite gadget.

Like other Japanese consumers, Nawa and Yamada pick and choose the functions they want. They don't use their phones as charge cards xxx8212; known here as the "wallet function." But they check train schedules and have made hotel reservations with their phones. They keep their music on their phones and subscribe to daily e-mails that deliver news headlines and daily fortune telling. They use their phones to shop on online sites and bid in online auctions.

-------



The Japanese phones and usage are already WAY more advanced than what is offered on the iPhone. They are on 3G, and the possibilities are endless. Also, their phones (which do much more than the iPhone) are much cheaper.

By the time Apple gets this phone in release (June in the US, 2008 in Europe and Asia), the iPhone will be a dinosaur.

[junior1790]

[QUOTE=I8UB4]

Originally Posted by bsic

Why does it seem like a beginners smartphone? Please watch the keynote and see Jobs' pointed argument to why this is a superious smartphone.

QUOTE]

Below are excerpts from an article in today's LA Times:

IN JAPAN, BARELY A RIPPLE
Apple's much-anticipated iPhone is 'business as usual' in a country where mobile features already are so advanced


TOKYO — Tomoaki Kurita presides over racks of cellphones lined up outside his shop on a busy sidewalk in Harajuku, Tokyo's catwalk of youth street culture where people attracted by the riot of phone options can stop to flip open and fondle the latest models of what the Japanese call keitai.

From behind his busy counter, Kurita giggles when asked about the excitement in America over the arrival of Apple's iPhone, which can also be used to download music and surf the Internet.

"Sounds like business as usual," he says.

On the day when stock markets swooned and techies buzzed over Apple Inc. Chief Executive Steve Jobs' long-awaited entry into the mobile-phone market, Japanese consumers could be excused for wondering: Why the fuss?

Yes, the iPhone seemed to reaffirm Apple's ability to wow with design. Its finger-driven navigation might bring a new level of sophistication to the way cellphones operate. But many Japanese had a harder time buying Jobs' line about "reinventing" the phone.

"Every once in a while, a revolutionary product comes along that changes everything," Jobs said as he unveiled the iPhone on Tuesday at the Macworld Conference & Expo in San Francisco.

But the revolution is already well underway in Japan, where cellphones are used for everything. Besides downloading music and surfing the Net, Japanese use their cellphones to navigate their way home by global positioning system, to buy movie tickets and to update personal blogs from wherever they are.

They have been a natural extension of daily life here for the last few years, spurred by Japan's decision to be the first country to upgrade to third-generation mobile-phone networks, or 3G, which increase broadband capabilities and allow for better transmission of voice and data.

Apple's iPhone, by comparison, will operate on a second-generation network.

It was 3G that sparked the boom in music downloads that makes it common for phones to be used as portable digital music players here.

And it is 3G that has led the Japanese into a world where they can watch live TV on their phones and use them as a charge card to ride trains or buy milk at the corner store or take a taxi. Ticket Pia, Japan's major entertainment ticketing agency, has been selling e-mail tickets to cellphones since October 2003. The phones also can be used to conduct conference calls among as many as five people.

Another widely used 3G feature enables users to point cellphone cameras at bar codes and be directed to websites. For example, every seat in the Chiba Lotte Marines baseball stadium has a bar code, which takes a cellphone to a special home page where users can subscribe to get "inside" information and columns not available on the regular team site.

Also, every Marine game can be watched, live, on a phone.

As with other Japanese baseball clubs, cellphones can be used to buy tickets. Teams have examined the possibility of installing turnstiles that would allow ticket holders to enter stadiums by swiping their cellphones across the terminal. That technology is already used at some movie theaters. And cellphones can be loaded with prepaid credit and then be swiped at terminals to allow access to Japanese trains.

Most observers contend the U.S. has begun to close the gap on mobile-phone use with Japan, South Korea and Europe.

Music downloads by cellphone are rising in the U.S. The long-term threat to iTunes' commanding lead in downloads was a major force behind Apple's entry into mobile phones. Other functions are on the way.

"We plan to introduce one-way videoconferencing in the U.S. this year," said spokeswoman Melissa Elkins of LG Electronics MobileCOMM. The function would allow one person to be visible to another caller over a cellphone. Two-way videoconferencing has already been available in South Korea for about 18 months, Elkins said.

But the biggest difference between the U.S. and countries like Japan is not the array of bells and whistles on cellphones but the cultural differences the keitai has created.

Keitai form a cyber social network in a highly mobile society. To wait for a light on a Tokyo street corner or to ride a train is to see crowds of people with their heads down, thumbs pumping as they send photos, write text messages or play online games on their phones. Increasingly, they are reading books and manga, or comic books, on their phones too.

The keitai has also become an extension of personality. There is software to create a personalized home page for a cellphone. Young men and women customize their phones by hanging tiny dolls off them and covering them with stickers and paints.

"I like it because it's cute," says Mami Nawa, 23, as she shows off the dial pad she has painted in purple and pink tones. "And with my long nails, the paint gives me a better feel for the phone."

Nawa spent about $170 on her sharp phone, and $25 more to decorate it, though she says some friends spend much more on decorations. But neither she nor her friend Makiko Yamada, who are sampling the phones in Harajuku, would ever pay anything close to $500 for a cellphone. A hundred dollars, tops, Yamada says.

Apple might find it hard to lead a revolution with iPhone priced as an elite gadget.

Like other Japanese consumers, Nawa and Yamada pick and choose the functions they want. They don't use their phones as charge cards — known here as the "wallet function." But they check train schedules and have made hotel reservations with their phones. They keep their music on their phones and subscribe to daily e-mails that deliver news headlines and daily fortune telling. They use their phones to shop on online sites and bid in online auctions.

-------



The Japanese phones and usage are already WAY more advanced than what is offered on the iPhone. They are on 3G, and the possibilities are endless. Also, their phones (which do much more than the iPhone) are much cheaper.

By the time Apple gets this phone in release (June in the US, 2008 in Europe and Asia), the iPhone will be a dinosaur.

agreed, c'mon fellas anyof us who have a blackberry are hooked. while some of may get one just to have it, i have an 8703, a blackjack and slvr for various business and personal needs, i may jump and get one to have the newest and coolest but never will i be giving up some sort of bb, whether it be 87xx, 88xx whatever...

[JokerX]

I came across this demo and it deff looks nice and seems to run pretty well but I really want the 8800 but then I may still pick this up to play with also

Chk out the link below


YouTube - A Closer Look At The iPhone


If this was posted elswhere - sorry

[bsic]

Originally Posted by I8UB4

Below are excerpts from an article in today's LA Times:

IN JAPAN, BARELY A RIPPLE
Apple's much-anticipated iPhone is 'business as usual' in a country where mobile features already are so advanced

.....

Wow, those DO look advanced, they make BB's look like a beginner smartphone as well. Id definitely grab one of those as well. Can you point me to the release dates in the USA before June? I assume they will be out before then, if the iPhone will truly be a "dinosaur" because of these in the USA.

[vap0r]

Originally Posted by JokerX

I came across this demo and it deff looks nice and seems to run pretty well but I really want the 8800 but then I may still pick this up to play with also

Chk out the link below


YouTube - A Closer Look At The iPhone


If this was posted elswhere - sorry

wow. this is amazing.

[I8UB4]

Originally Posted by bsic

Wow, those DO look advanced, they make BB's look like a beginner smartphone as well. Id definitely grab one of those as well. Can you point me to the release dates in the USA before June? I assume they will be out before then, if the iPhone will truly be a "dinosaur" because of these in the USA.

If you buy a 4 gig iPhone in June for $500 (with a 2-year contract) do you honestly think that there will be anything cutting edge about it in June 2009 when your plan expires? That's 2 1/2 years from now. The only thing cutting edge about it now is the touchscreen and the UI. Trust me, in June 2008. you'll be trading it in for a newer device, whether it's an improved iPhone, a Blackberry, or something else down that is developed down the road (and either extending your Cingular contract by another year or switching carriers and paying off the remaining year). $500+ is a lot to spend for one year of phone usage.

That's why something like a Pearl, at $50 or $150 or whatever, is attractive, because when you upgrade in a year to the NEW BIG THING (which will be 3G), you're not out a boatload of money.

BTW, it's shipping in June in the US, Q4 in Europe and 2008 in Asia (if there are no delays).

[bsic]

I need a video ipod as i fly often and a laptop is getting cumbersome. I have an 8700, which is just email/phone and nothing more.

I can either buy an ipod for ~300, and an 88/8900 for ~300+, or buy the iphone for a single device with more features than i can get in both combined... for the same price.

A Pearl is hardly a solution for me, i cant stand its keyboard! it would be a waste for $150 for a year of using something that isnt practical for heavy email user.

Ill likely buy the 8G, and just upgrade in a year if im compelled. 8G is several thousand songs, plenty for a long trip. Lack of 3G does STINK, but im used to EDGE on the 8700 now anyways, and doesnt sound like a 3G BB is on its way with video/mp3/etc built in.

[greggebhardt]

Originally Posted by bsic

I need a video ipod as i fly often and a laptop is getting cumbersome. I have an 8700, which is just email/phone and nothing more.

I can either buy an ipod for ~300, and an 88/8900 for ~300+, or buy the iphone for a single device with more features than i can get in both combined... for the same price.

A Pearl is hardly a solution for me, i cant stand its keyboard! it would be a waste for $150 for a year of using something that isnt practical for heavy email user.

Ill likely buy the 8G, and just upgrade in a year if im compelled. 8G is several thousand songs, plenty for a long trip. Lack of 3G does STINK, but im used to EDGE on the 8700 now anyways, and doesnt sound like a 3G BB is on its way with video/mp3/etc built in.

I am not crazy about the Pearl keyboard either, BUT the iPhone keyboard will be cr^p. How in the heck do you think you are going to do serious email on a touchscreen keyboard. Stop looking at Apply's little demo video and just imagine using this device from day to day as heavy email device. Pretty, yes, practical, NOT!

[backbeat]

Originally Posted by greggebhardt

I am not crazy about the Pearl keyboard either, BUT the iPhone keyboard will be cr^p. How in the heck do you think you are going to do serious email on a touchscreen keyboard. Stop looking at Apply's little demo video and just imagine using this device from day to day as heavy email device. Pretty, yes, practical, NOT!

From having used 3rd-party on-screen keyboards for email on PPC phones, it looks like the iPhone's keyboard is very practical. Then again, all anyone has witnessed of the iPhone is a 2-dimensional representation.

[greggebhardt]

Originally Posted by backbeat

From having used 3rd-party on-screen keyboards for email on PPC phones, it looks like the iPhone's keyboard is very practical. Then again, all anyone has witnessed of the iPhone is a 2-dimensional representation.

Do you think you will be able to type on the iPhone with both thumbs like a Blackberry? Your thumbs will have nothing to feel for, non-tactile.

Practical, what do others think, what would you rather type on?

[backbeat]

Originally Posted by greggebhardt

Do you think you will be able to type on the iPhone with both thumbs like a Blackberry? Your thumbs will have nothing to feel for, non-tactile.

Typing on a virtual keyboard doesn't require any tactile feedback. At least on PPC phones, you can control the keyboard's sensitivity and speed for key repeats. Since the iPhone doesn't use a stylus, I would assume that the device will be held by one hand while you use the index finger of your other to do the typing. The keys appear to be large enough to not make any more typos than on a BB. The main reason I prefer Blackberry, as far as its email function goes, is for push email delivery, ability to reliably reply on the go, and security.

[fatman]

Until someone physically gets to play with the iPhone, it will be difficult to ascertain its soft-key dynamics.

Although, and this is perhaps my personal opinion, a tactile response of key press and key release feels more natural. My only comparison is based on experience from using PDAs and self check-in kiosks at airports.

[DanUC6]

I cannot believe how passionate some people are that they would go to every extent to bash the new "whatever it will be called" phone. I have been a mac fan for a long while, before I was a blackberry fan. This thing "looks" pretty great, but not one person has gotten there hands on it for more than 15 seconds than Jobs. So 1st, we don't know. Blackberry will still prove champion in the business sector, which is enormous. But as time goes on this iphone WILL revolutionize it all. Everyone says that this is girlie and that it seems like a beginner's smartphone. NO. It looks that way because apple has made it simple. We love our gadgets, but with all of them there is a learning cuurve. This curve has just eliminated by this "presumed" apple interface. I was excited as all the rest of you about the 8800. Trust me my family and friends could not hear enough about it. But to compare 2 devices, based on their specs, the iphone blows the 8800 out of the water. I had the first ipod, before all the hype and knew that the product in my hand was amazing. And so I watch as Steve Jobs killed the competition. The best function is that everything is software and whenever things need to be changed they can, not like anything physical, like the buttons. I know it may feel weird at first but remember, everything has a learning curve. I will still wait for the 8800 and see what it has to offer, but my GOD the iphone is so many things in one. The mail will work great, no 3G??, who really cares when you got wifi and spots keep spawning like wildfire in the past years. Apple makes its product to the consumer. It listens, while other companies do not. I love this site, it has been a great enjoyment coming on and postin but the truth is that the iphone blows me away on numerous levels. Never have I been so convinced on one product and jumped ship with so ease. This may be do to the fact that I have been a mac guy for years. You may not jump the gun now because it is not "cool" because apple is girlie and for little babies, but as I witnessed with the ipod you all will come to your senses...or enjoy your everlasting doom with your zoom..or is that zune!!!!!