[daphne]

Umm... just because it's "been reported throughout the media" doesn't make it so. Polls can be easily slanted. I read that in San Francisco mobile users prefer iPhone and in NYC mobile users prefer BlackBerry. If I was going to do a poll and wanted to influence the outcome toward iPhone, I'd do it in San Francisco.

San Francisco goes for iPhone, New York prefers Blackberry | abc7news.com

SUNNYVALE, CA (KGO) -- A new survey is revealing the big differences between the Bay Area and New York when it comes to the electronic gadgets people use.


The "gadget census" by Sunnyvale's Retrevo Inc. found that in the Bay Area, the iPhone is king, but in New York, it's the BlackBerry.

New York has 56 percent more BlackBerries per capita than the Bay Area, 30 percent more iPads and 34-percent more e-readers.

On the other hand, the Bay Area had 23 percent more iPhones than New York, 94 percent more Mac OS users and 12 percent more people watching TV online.

The survey also found that the Los Angeles area, home to Hollywood, had the highest concentration of Blu-ray players.


(Copyright ©2010 KGO-TV/DT. All Rights Reserved.)

IMO, all such polls and surveys are to be taken with a few huge grains of salt.

[David Haddad]

Originally Posted by daphne

Umm... just because it's "been reported throughout the media" doesn't make it so. Polls can be easily slanted.

I agree, that's why I merely referred to it as an interesting article.

IMO, all such polls and surveys are to be taken with a few huge grains of salt.

No. Properly conducted polls with well controlled samples can be very meaningful. So it would be very unwise to just reject all of them, especially if the reason for rejecting them is because they are telling you something you don't want to here.

My personal observation and belief based on what I am seeing is that if BB is be relevant 5 years from they desperately need to bring out some phones that can offer the same coolness factor as Android and iPhone. That's an opinion more than a fact, but I think all the signs are there. I also think they have time to turn it around but they better do it sooner rather than later.

[SarinAEON]

Originally Posted by David Haddad

My personal observation and belief based on what I am seeing is that if BB is be relevant 5 years from they desperately need to bring out some phones that can offer the same coolness factor as Android and iPhone. That's an opinion more than a fact, but I think all the signs are there. I also think they have time to turn it around but they better do it sooner rather than later.

I think that this point is made on several levels. First, the business applications of a BB are the finest in the industry. Second, Most new BB users are "consumer" driven, selecting the BB for many of the reasons why Business does. Upwards to 50% of new users as I understand it are not business driven but are smart phone users that chose their devices at Verizon/ATT/Sprint etc... Third, as has often been mentioned, BB core users are business people that are assigned a BB rather than select it. Sadly, many often carry a second phone to supplement more "consumer" driven apps. Finally, the statistics showing that BB business market share is being effected by iphone and Droid devices and is dwindling... Or that BB's increased presence in the consumer market is or will be decreasing is the result of the double dipping nature of accounting for the two markets.

BB entered the mainstream consumer markets with a vengeance. Now expectations are being expressed that if you want to play in this pond, either leverage your strengths, while adding features or go back to the simple but unabashedly successful solely business oriented tool that you are well known for. Leaving the consumer market to do what it does best, and that is keep pushing the envelope.

What is clear from all I have read, is that BB users want to keep their BB devices, do not want to carry two phones, and are demanding that BB continue their entree into the consumer market in a more competitive fashion. Larger touch screens, efficient operating systems/search engines and greater competitiveness in terms of features and flexibility.

I want to go to the Droid X for all its "Consumer" features, but my core reasons for having a BB are not satisfied by the Droid X. BB Features such as seamless syncing with outlook, backing up all dialogues/Emails/SMS'/Apps, and the reliability/security of the core service are all somewhat deficient in the Droid X. But I prefer Droids keyboard, screen size, ease of typing and speed of functionality. All of which I believe are doable by RIM.

I have 8 months before I can swap out my storm. Please, build me a Droid/Storm-like hybrid for my replacement.

[ubizmo]

Originally Posted by SarinAEON

BB entered the mainstream consumer markets with a vengeance. Now expectations are being expressed that if you want to play in this pond, either leverage your strengths, while adding features or go back to the simple but unabashedly successful solely business oriented tool that you are well known for. Leaving the consumer market to do what it does best, and that is keep pushing the envelope.

Thank you for writing one of the most cogent posts I've seen on this subject (and not just the part I've quoted). There are too many people here who like to divide the smartphone universe into two categories: "tools" and "toys", where BBs are the tools and just about everything else is a toy. In this way they can dismiss various criticisms of BBs as only relevant to their "toylike" properties, and therefore without substance. I'm pretty sure this cultish stance is not taken by the people at RIM. As you say, the current generation of BBs are clearly aimed way beyond the corporate market. Moreover, the iPhone and Android are clearly putting that corporate market in their crosshairs. To stay competitive, devices will need to serve both masters, the corporate and the consumer. RIM had a huge headstart in the smartphone business, and it's no surprise that they're still an industry leader. But then, WordStar had a huge headstart in word processing...

I believe that RIM will continue to throw a great deal of R&D at the "toy" stuff, i.e., just making the BB more fun to use. I think we're going to see this in OS 6 and future incarnations of the BB. It's just a question of whether they have the chops to do it. There are some tricky problems involved. One of the big ones is battery life. Multi-media, large high-res screens, lots of OS animation, etc, are all features that drain the battery. iPhone and Android phone users know about this. They accept that they will often have to charge their phones more than once a day, if they're using them much. For business use, however, this is unacceptable. So RIM must walk a tightrope between adding consumer-oriented features and turning the BB into a device that can't reliably last a day on a single charge. I think that's why they're very cautious about increasing the computing horsepower and graphics specs. It remains to be seen whether they can stay on the tightrope.

Ubizmo

[jimn367]

Originally Posted by ubizmo

But then, WordStar had a huge headstart in word processing...

Wordstar is dead? What?

Great , now I'll have to update my Harvard Graphics presentation and my Lotus 1-2-3 spreadsheets! ;)

[David Haddad]

Blackberry Torch on the market for one week and RIM is panicking and cutting the price in half to $99. I guess someone missed the "it's a BUSINESS tool" memo. They should hire the guy that just left HP that developed the Palm Pre and tell him "use our technology and create a cool phone for us".

[jerry12]

Originally Posted by frmkt

RIM should go back to its roots... The BB is for mobile professionals who rely on email and a phone - period. It's not supposed to be fun, so if "fun" is where the money is, then I guess they lose. If utility is more important, then RIM wins hands down. They need to focus on the original form factor of the Bold and apply all of the upgrades of the 9700 to that device. I've used the other platforms in the past and BB has been my unit for the past 4 years. They just seem lost right now by trying to please everyone. Just carve a niche and rake it in... JMHO.

Rim can't go back to its Root's its investor's will not let them. Rim has to keep pushing the consumer market the investor's demand it.

[jimn367]

To me the problem with RIM is the too many [minor] different choices on different carriers. I can see having a couple of form factors (keyboard, no keyboard) to accomodate differeing tastes, but there needs to be some consistency across carriers. They can have Kera Sedgewyk carry that ugly new flip phone on the Closer all they want, but it a total waste of a form factor.

They spend too much effort on imperceptible differences and minor product variations.

Two product lines:
4.3 inch sexy touch screen
(Last gen Bold) sized keyboard model with as big of a screen and battery you can cram into it

Then focus on OS and apps

RIM feels like Palm of 5 years ago.... An aging OS, increasing platform instability and more reboots, irrelevant and minor product improvements, loyal users making excuses for the lack of true innovation, and a company pointing out what it did or does and not what it is going to do.

[torberry]

Originally Posted by jimn367

RIM feels like Palm of 5 years ago.... An aging OS, increasing platform instability and more reboots, irrelevant and minor product improvements, loyal users making excuses for the lack of true innovation, and a company pointing out what it did or does and not what it is going to do.

It totally does feel like Palm post-Palm Pilot hysteria!

[blackgrape]

yeah and now companies are choosing the iphone instead, despite the security issues

[F5fstop]

Originally Posted by ubizmo

I think RIM doesn't want to make a device that routinely needs to be charged before the day is over, and that's why they trad very carefully before adding a lot of processing horsepower, and especially before adding a lot of screen res. Those flashy big hi-res screens eat power like nothing else, and the BB is meant to be a dependable device above all. That means that, at a minimum, you should be able to make it from getting up in the morning to going to bed at night without charging. So I, for one, was pleased to see the screen res on the new 9800--if only T-mo would get them. I also don't see any real need to go to 5 megapixels, since the added megapixels are only relevant for printing photos, and who does that? 3.2 mp photos are plenty large enough to display on computer screens. The added MP just make the camera more of a battery drain. "Specs" aren't everything.

Ubizmo
Posted via BlackBerryForums.com Mobile

If I really use my BB for surfing or other functions, I get about the same as a friend is getting on her Droid X with the same type of programs running. And the X has a heck of a larger screen and an extremely faster processor when compared to my Tour.

If you run facebook and other personal sites at all times, the battery drain increases. Not something I can test since personal type websites like facebook are as worthless as opening a Sarah Palin book store at the DNC.

In addition, since the speed of most of the newer Android models far exceeds anything BB has or will have in the near future, many people utilize these phone to surf the web and play games, etc., than a BB user; thus faster battery drain.

As for the camera, I totally agree. Mega pixels don't mean diddle unless you are printing a large photo. My tour is fine, and if I want some GOOD photos, I will pull out one of my Nikons with pro lenses and get a good photo. Cell phone cameras are good at accident sites, and for those photos that you want to send to someone for viewing on a small screen; be it a BB or another device.

I won't even discuss GPS, since on any device BB or Android and probably iPhone too, it drains the battery extremly fast.

For those of us who do not need the benefits RIM offers on the BB, will seriously consider jumping to another platform. It may not be Android, it could be the new Win 7 mobile, but for me, I cannot see it being BB this coming December. However, if by some magic, a BB with a fast processor and at least a 4" screen is released, I would have no problem staying with RIM.

RIM is secure, for now (who knows what the future will bring) in their corporate market, but just consider now much more money they could retain if they also tried to keep the consumer market. If they want to continue to keep the same type of phones for business; fine, but don't let the consumer market disappear. Jump on it and start releasing consumer type phones similar to Androids and iPhones and that can do nothing but help RIM. RIM can do it, but it appears they really don't care about the consumer market, and that might hurt them drastically in the long run.

If I owned Google (I probably would not be on this forum if I did), I would be trying to purchase RIM. Not to put them out of business, but to get that corporate market, improve the phones for that market, and continue to steal away the consumer market.

[dc/dc]

Originally Posted by blackgrape

yeah and now companies are choosing the iphone instead, despite the security issues

LOL.

[mocean11]

Originally Posted by berrydeezz

Don't get me wrong I love my tour, it just works for alot of things for me. Mainly keyboard and I can actully get things done faster on it. But I'm with sprint and the evo 4g is a killer and the fact that you can actully type faster with swype like seen in the samsung commerical (not that fast maybe).

Anyway I just saw this on yahoo and honestly I have to agree because RIM is getting dated everyday. I don't see how a blackberry phone can cost as much or equal to any of the other iphones, etc.

website finance.yahoo.com/family-home/article/109225/why-blackberry-users-will-defect]why-blackberry-users-will-defect:]why-blackberry-users-will-defect]why-blackberry-users-will-defect:: Personal Finance News from Yahoo! Finance[/url] Personal Finance News from Yahoo! Finance

As a business owner, I can tell you that I am moving away from RIM because of the defects inherent in some of their products and the difficulty I've had in asking them to stand behind their products. Perhaps the FCC will be able to act on my behalf, as well as, anyone else who has purchased a defective product from them.

It's too bad. The Bold could be a great asset, if it would only function.

[juwaack68]

Originally Posted by mocean11

Perhaps the FCC will be able to act on my behalf, as well as, anyone else who has purchased a defective product from them.

You really contacted the FCC? I'm curious what you expect them to do...?

[dc/dc]

Originally Posted by mocean11

As a business owner, I can tell you that I am moving away from RIM because of the defects inherent in some of their products and the difficulty I've had in asking them to stand behind their products. Perhaps the FCC will be able to act on my behalf, as well as, anyone else who has purchased a defective product from them.

It's too bad. The Bold could be a great asset, if it would only function.

You do understand that you are not RIM's customer, right? They don't and won't support you directly. You are the customer of the cellular provider from whom you purchased the devices, and they should support you.

The FCC won't do anything for you either.

For what it's worth, I've owned over 40 BlackBerry devices and only one has had a defect, and T-Mobile USA corrected it immediately.

[David Haddad]

Originally Posted by F5fstop

RIM is secure, for now (who knows what the future will bring) in their corporate market...

http://www.businessweek.com/news/201...-s-iphone.html

[matrix1028]

Originally Posted by jerry12

Rim can't go back to its Root's its investor's will not let them. Rim has to keep pushing the consumer market the investor's demand it.

I agree, they have to keep up with companies like apple

[Cooper]

You can't deploy an iPhone to a general user base because your idiot employees with use it to play games, surf the web (uncontrolably) and install shit tons of apps.

The BlackBerry is perfect for the business environment because you can set policies.

You can't deploy iPhones to a company because your users will go out and get iTunes accounts, download apps and games, along with putting their entire music collection on the xxxxing thing.

Since when in the business world was it acceptable to use equipment provided to you to do work on as a personal device?

There's a reson for the BB and it's a good one.

[jamesavila]

Corporations or business users who need to be connected to corporate email will not leave RIM so long as they domicate security. Unless you work for apple or some other tree hugger company, you will likely be issued a blackberry for work versus any other "cool hip" smartphone.
Posted via BlackBerryForums.com Mobile

[SmoothRunnings]

Originally Posted by jamesavila

Corporations or business users who need to be connected to corporate email will not leave RIM so long as they domicate security. Unless you work for apple or some other tree hugger company, you will likely be issued a blackberry for work versus any other "cool hip" smartphone.
Posted via BlackBerryForums.com Mobile

In this day and in age executives and CEO's alike don't care what's better as it only matters to them what's cooler and cheaper? And Android promises to be a $100 device within a years a time and offer everything it offers today plus more. RIM's market share is already hurting big time because of the Android and now they too will have to face the grim possibility of falling apart unless they too can lower the price of their devices.