[Dawg]

I said I was scared earlier lol

[Mr Pink57]

Originally Posted by barjohn

Whether a poster is a first time or nth time poster is really not material. THis is supposed to be a device for the business professional. Even though I work with a large group of over 2,000 engineers they are not all computer savy. I happen to be the exception and have over 35 years of computer experience as well as training and degrees in the area of computer science. I have seen many of my co-workers, especially those in senior management like myself that have been in management so long that the technical problems I selected ( a few from the thousands on this site alone) are not untypical of what they might encounter. Just because you are knowledgeable enough to resolve the problems for yourself doesn't mean that others are. It may be a "perfect" device for you becasue you have that knowledge and your needs are limited (though apparently not so limited that you didn't want the better device). This does not make it a perfect device for others. To use the cellphone aspect should require little more knowledge than it takes to use a cell phone you are already familiar with and to use email and the PIM services should require no more knowledge than it does on your PC. If it does, the design isn't right. If it is missing functionality you take for granted to do your job the design isn't right. It may be the best possible with existing technology but it still isn't right. I'm not saying anyone has it right yet but what I am saying is others are getting closer and RIM needs to do the same to stay competitive. Busy executives are not going to take the time to be gadget geeks and spend hours on this or other boards to be able to use their device. They will replace it. I am the exception because it is a hobby too.

What would be the right device for you?

pink

[barjohn]

Right this moment, the HP HW6510 (cameraless version) is my preferred device. I have written a detailed review of it and find it does most things very well. It is far from perfect, as are most devices. For form factor I really like the Motorola Q but my testing of the very sexy looking Moto RAZR left me questioning how much Moto is willing to trade off for good looks. The HTC Wizard also looks very good. Knowing me I will probably buy them both and keep the one I think is best. Maybe the new BB will be the killer Blackberry we are all looking for. There are four main things a Blackberry has going for it. They are 1. the push email, 2. The excellent thumboard design, 3. The use of the scroll wheel and escape key as a means of managing the interface and 4. The smart linking of field types to switching from numeric to alpha and the shortcut/macros that make typing easier.

Where they fail is in the quality of the audio on the radio side, the poor Bluetooth implimentation, the lack of a browser that supports frames andthe slow 2g connection speed for Internet browsing. Additionally, the inconsistent ability to use as a modem and the lack of Vocie dialing capability. It is difficult to have a narrow phone and a really usable keyboard unless you do what they have done in the Wizard and Nokia 9300 and turn it sideways. No one particularly wants to hold a calcualtor to their head to make a phone call and that is where having greater ability from a Bluetooth headset would be really great. Being able to issue voice commands from the headset and dial out would allow you to leave the unit holstered. None of these issues should be particularly challenging and I suspect that it is marketing forces that come into play more than technical difficulty.

Having said all that I am very troubled by RIM's inability or unwillingness to address audio issues in the current handsets and in particular the 7100 series. For evidence see this thread: http://www.blackberryforums.com/show...9&goto=newpost

When a company fails to respond they send a message that they don't care. If they said , hey we have a problem and we are working on it but it has turned out to be more difficult than we originally thought and we will have a solution posted as quickly as we can, you would at least feel that they acknowledge the problem and are making a good faith effort to resolve it. No such candor from RIM. By the way, I am not singling RIM out here, there are plenty of other companies that do the same thing. The only way to change that behavior is to voice our complaints on this and other forums until they start listening.

[KonTiki]

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzz clunk . . .!!!

[marcusharris]

Hey, folks!

I have to tell you -- this thread has been the best one I've read through
in a -LONG- time!!

I guess I'm a mixed-bag, though. I'm a new BlackBerry user who wishes
I could do wireless syncs via BlueTooth between my 7290 and my laptop.

But I can't...

But, as a software developer, I also share some of Corey's sentiments on
building the functionality yourself -- if you have enough of a need, enough
time, and enough expertise to do it.

So I am... Well, at least I was until both of my kids got sick at the same
time and now they're both at home w/me as I work to meet my own deadlines.

Seeing as how my -NEED- for such a capability is making the amount
of time I have to develop it less and less of an issue, I was wondering
if Corey had posted the source code he mentioned in an earlier post any place
within this forum?

Corey -- When you get a chance, can you post your source along with a
README (or some kind of short set of release notes) so I could grab it
and use it? I've already gotten my development environment setup
and have created some minor apps for the BlackBerry in an attempt to
get used to things.

Also, if I -EVER- run into any 3rd party applications that will alllow BB
users to do wireless syncs between their handhelds and a laptop or other
PC, I will post a link to them on this forum -WITH THE SWIFTNESS- once
I've tested them.

I would hate to point you guys to garbage, you know?

Anyway, thanks!! I hope to see that source code posted sometime
soon (Corey)!! :^)

God Bless,

Marcus E. Harris

[krad]

while i was playing with my it policy on the bes server, i noticed the option to allow users to use serial port for third party applications. don't quote me, i just remember seeing that. maybe with that checked, you will be able to connect?

to get around this crap, on my ppc, i used to load unsupported bluetooth stacks from wldcomm and the microsoft bluetooth stack to avoid bluetooth lockouts. Maybe someone can figure that out, or talk to the gps bluetooth gurus who made that program to use bluetooth gps for geocaching....

[krad]

it is a valid reason or feature to want to sync wirelessly between your bb and your laptop, however i believe there are many reasons that rim does not provide this feature...

as many of you are well aware, i would say proudly that i believe the most influential people in the world have blackberries. Take for example alan greenspan. Bluetooth is not 100% secuirty proof. Imagine james bond type missions to steal data off of these devices from 30 feet away. I believe that on the outside rim seems like a company for the people, however i believe for certain markets, aka. government agencies, they have to lock the devices down. I cheer rim's restraint with coming out with cameras in blackberries. Sure to IT pros it seems like a must, but i believer blackberries are created with security at the top of the list.

How man cars and headsets have a bluetooth password of "0000". seriously!

[sabby]

you all need to get laid!

[corey@12mile]

Originally Posted by sabby

you all need to get laid!

You need to get a nickel...

So you can buy a new personality.

cd.

[Butah]

Originally Posted by peteyspambucket

I think BT data transfer is highly over-rated. I used to use it on my 3 Sony Ericssons, but after a time, the thrill was gone, and I preferred the wired method. Now that I'm on the 7100t, I just plug the wire in and the transfer is faster with a wire anyway, and it charges at the same time.

Well ... I work out of a home office, and my main computer is a laptop, and I simply will not pay $1000+ for the BES software, so I would like to install the desktop redirector on my 2003 server (which is on the floor in my wiring closet 30 feet from my desk), and I don't want to put my phone in the closet to get it synced up. Why? Because when I have to leave the office in a hurry to go help a client, I grab the essentials off my desk (cash, cards, keys, CELLPHONE) and jet ... if the phone is plugged into the server in the closet, I will forget to take it with me.

I cant install the desktop redirector on my laptop for obvious reasons ... its not connected to my lan when I’m not home.

It's not lazy, its called 'having too much on my mind to have to think about everything' ... I want my 7520 to sync with my outlook data over Bluetooth. Seems like a perfectly legitimate consumer request. The fact that the largest consumer of blackberrys MIGHT be government doesn't jive with me. I worked for a city for 8 years, and if I know anything about government spending, its that there simply is no limit. Therefore, disabling bluetooth by default, then forcing an admin to enable it in the BES server is simply not a problem ... for ANYONE. So that is simply a piss poor excuse.

Originally Posted by peteyspambucket

I also agree with corey's suggestion about writing your own BT data transfer apps if you think it's so important and want it so badly, or just live without it that capability. Nobody really cares about this functionality, and the BT is most useful only for the headset and keyboard accessories.

Obviously, I'm with corey.

Corey sounds like your typical propeller head linux fanatic (who probably hates Microsoft just because they are successful) who falls asleep thinking about how he could have tweaked his last subroutine to use 2k less ram (even though a gig of the stuff is less than $100 these days). For the people who live in the real world; demanding a little more functionality from their handheld devices FROM THE COMPANY WHO MAKES THEM is simply good consumerism. I have written many programs in my day, but i'll be damned if I'm going to burn x number of hours learning how to do something that should be native to a device. I would simply rather spend my time playing with my kids, my wife, my xbox ... whatever. It's a simple function that should be part of the device. And as a good consumer, I'll dump this one if they don’t fix it and find something else. I don't know what yet ... but when I see it, I'll get it. That’s the beauty of capitalism!

[Butah]

Originally Posted by Mr Pink57

Wirelessly posted (your electric?: BlackBerry7520/4.0.2 Profile/MIDP-2.0 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 UP.Browser/5.0.3.3 UP.Link/5.1.2.12)

Milkman,

What I am saying in short the point I am trying to make is, if they let us decide whether or not we want full BT. What would stop a worker from coming in with his BB and transferring files and taking it where he/she wants to, since all BB's look the same they would have no way of knowing.

pink

Whats to stop him from doing that with ANY BT device? Or a USB stick for that matter? Blackberrys aren't the only wireless data devices on the planet you know ... and if that employee is allowed to wire sync his BB, why couldn't he just copy the data over the wire if he wanted it?

[Butah]

Originally Posted by corey@12mile

It's not so much a matter of defending RIM as it is trying to explain to people what the purpose of a blackberry is. It's not a Treo, it's not a cell phone...

It's NOT? Why the hell do I talk on it for hours every day then?

RIM is king of the hill right now and that's not going to change much in the next 3-5 years. The treo's have been around for a couple of years now and offer significantly more 'gadgets' than the blackberry, but haven't even put a dent into RIM's bottom line

I love this logic ... "Everyone is using product X ... so why in the world would anyone purchase product Y" ... it's been the famous statement against purchasing an Apple computer for 20 years now. The analogy should be completed with this response ... 'Sure the majority of people are driving Nissan, Toyota, Ford, GM etc. ... and BMW certainly isn't hurting THEIR bottom line ... but I'll stay with my BMW simply because its a far superior product thank you very much.'

RIM is doing things perfectly for their large customers right now, which is the best thing that they can do.

I simply disagree with this statement. I know at least three government agencies who were pissed that they had to pay so much for a BES server, and the fact that BB strong-armed them into it further by disabling the BT desktop syncing. Bottom line is, wireless syncing with your Exchange database can only be done with a BES server ... it was a marketing strategy. The new Treo which is out next year, and other Microsoft based handheld phones which can use the free feature built into Exhcange 2003 will simply drive the migration over to a feature rich device. It's not 5 years out ... it's only a couple of months away. We'll see what happens this time next year when the 06-07 government budgets kick in.

Personal users will never outnumber professional users, and professional users want the features and security that RIM offers, nothing more.

As a programmer, certainly you can't be implying that providing the ability for a BT sync to a desktop simply CANT be done without opening the planet up to your BB data ... can you? If so, you have less creative ability than I originally thought.

I can think of two ways right off the bat ... encrypt the data before it hits the air waves, and disable the feature out of the box (require the user to enable it somehow).

Mike

[Butah]

Originally Posted by barjohn

[/u][/color]No wonder I was wrong

To bring a little balance to this ... forums *ARE* there to assist with problems ... no one posts when everything is going along just fine.

[CaminDFW]

My two cents:

I had the same problem with a generic Bluetooth adapter that I bought.. It was not XP compatible. You need to go down to Helmart and buy the $25 iogear adapter and it will work like a charm.

[fliedlice]

heh....Corey chill out you seem to care so much about the internet...go finish your fence and your deck....chill out, drink a beer, get laid do something just leave the internet alone for a few days! I still cant figure out how people get so angry at people asking questions more than once....you obviousley have a lack of self control...its not that hard to not reply to a thread that has a question thats already been posted...or that will possibly enrage you into punching stuff.

How many monitors have you broke this year?

[mriff]

uh-oh.....

[jlk265]

I gotta say- this is entertaining at the least, and a bit scary as well. Im fairly new to the Blackberry scene, and i hope any questions I ask dont set off some socially inept forum aggressors on an obscene tirade!! OK OK I PROMISE I'll use the search feature first!! But what happens if i cant find an answer to a question like..... can i sync with my PC via bluetooh? (Im in the medical field- definately dont have time to learn java)

[bhowelonza]

Originally Posted by Milkman

I figured with the most recent OS upgrade to the BB 7520, I would give bluetooth connectivity with my laptop a try.

I bought a Bluetooth adapter for my laptop and installed the software. It finds my Blackberry, and my Blackberry finds my laptop. It scans my Blackberry for available services and finds a "Voice Gateway", however it won't connect to it.

I look on my BB and find that my laptop is listed there, and I viewed the properties, and the properties say "Bluetooth Serial port". I tried to add that on the software, and it says that my phone doesn't support it... Odd huh?

Anyway - I am just seeing if I had more luck then anyone else did previously with the older OS.

Milkman,

I have the same issue. I can see BT Serial Port on my 7250 but my NEW IBM laptop with BT it will not find the service... Can someone figure this out? What gives?

[bhowelonza]

Ok here's what I've found out after doing a lot of digging:

First review the doc on bb website site Article #KB-04132. Bullet point #3 lists that you must have DEVICE OS 4.1 and since VZW only just released 4.0.2 -- I believe we are out of luck. Since only OS 4.1 supports BT hot sync.

However I'm still fustrated that the BT option in the BB list "BT Serial Port" even though you can't use it. There just has to be a way....

If you are one of the luck few that can load OS 4.1 also ensure your BT on the PC/laptop is compatable with WinXP SP2 and you CANNOT have the third-part BT software installed. You must ONLY have the MS generic BT Manager that was packaged for SP2... unless someone can prove me wrong???

Thus I've also looked at the BB Developer Enviro and they have a sample bluetooth code that will allow you to test bluetooth between your BB and computer -- BUT you must SIGN the code with a RIM key becuase it accesses "secure" APIs... and since I don't feel like paying for the key if anyone that has a key or develops can build and sign -- I'll be willing to test a workaround using that code --> bluetoothsample
Please post back to this thread.