[chillspace]

The BlackBerry platform is slowly opening up due to its long overdue penetration into the consumer market. It is only now becoming a viable platform for third party developers who have long been developing for Palm and Windows Mobile to start porting their applications to BB. More devices, less risk. A perfect example is Dataviz and their Documents to Go application. This is now being ported to BlackBerry devices and will hopefully be out soon. You want document viewing/editing capabilities? Wait for that to come out.

[junior1790]

This apprears to meet any and all office needs --> eoffice

[SDCromer]

Slinky

My company discontinued PDA support two years ago when we change to Blackberry. I've used both Palm and Pocket PC devices yes there are some things that these platforms do much better than Blackberry. The email functionality and synchronization with my work calendar and address book far outweigh any shortcomings. I used to travel with a laptop and charger, a PDA and charger, and a cell phone with charger. Now when I travel it's laptop with charger and blackberry on my hip (USB cable is in the laptop bag). The fact that my Blackberry can charge from the laptop and so can the Bluetooth headset just lightens my load. Combine that with the ability to check email without firing up the laptop and looking for wi-fi is just the cat's meow.

I have yet to find one device that can be all things to all people. The Blackberry suits most business travelers (like me) and meets most of our needs quite well. Give the berry a chance, you may find it useful.

[Dr. Jerry]

Junior...
Who in their right mind is going to buy a BB for $350+ ...then spend another $200+ just to make it do what it should do to begin with?? If the BB is a true "business tool"...should it not be able, right out the box, to view and edit office documents? What business you know of doesn't email documents? Anyone on a Treo can read and edit Office documents....right out of the box. Should I have to spend another $200+ to have the same functionality because I have BB??
As it stands right now...the most you can do on the BB is write rudimentary emails and schedule appointments on a very rudimentary calendar. Oh...but I forgot...it's more STABLE than a WM5 device. Whoopie!!

[paulbblc]

Originally Posted by Dr. Jerry

I have both the 8100c and the 8800c. They are great devices for their intended purpose: send and receive email. THAT IS ALL!! When it comes to a mobile office platform...don't believe the hype. They are completely useless! If you have a position that requires alot of MS Office reads and editing...this is definitely not the device for you. I have a Nokia E90 Communicator for practically anything else but email. The Nokia kicks the piss out of the BB for everything except email. If you plan on doing more that email...get a different device. Coming on this forum is like preaching to the choir. You are simply wasting your time. Case closed.

I agree about Nokia, solid devices minus the email aspect. Also I had a bit of a concern over the Symbian OS being a bit slow. Not too big of a dealbreaker, I just don't like waiting a long time for apps to load. Could have just been the unit I was testing (this was on a E61) though too however I have heard others say that it is a bit on the slow side.

[Dr. Jerry]

Originally Posted by paulbblc

I agree about Nokia, solid devices minus the email aspect. Also I had a bit of a concern over the Symbian OS being a bit slow. Not too big of a dealbreaker, I just don't like waiting a long time for apps to load. Could have just been the unit I was testing (this was on a E61) though too however I have heard others say that it is a bit on the slow side.

I agree. The older Symbian OS was a bit laggy. The new Symbian 9.2 OS, along with Nokia's Series 60, 3rd edition with feature pack 3.1 ...is excellent. I have almost zero lag and it is very stable. The E90 has almost everything under the sun: 3.2 MP camera, Wi-Fi g, GPS, 3G HSDPA, Mobile Office, VoIP, Bluetooth. It has everything that I wanted on my "wish list" for a mobile device. The email works very well...just isn't instant like BB. I really don't need instant mail in my profession (academia)...so it isn't a big deal.

[slinky]

I thank the working adults in this forum for steering the conversation productively. You''ve read what I've written and can sympathize with my dilemma. To the children who have nothing to say but yell "troll, why are you here?" -- I'll politely point out to you again that I have no choice. In many corporations it's the Blackberry way or the highway. I skated by for a bit until by using a little email forwarding until I was given the mandate to get one - and on Verizon's network since we have a special corporate discount.

Regarding eoffice mentioned by junior1790 - not only is it a whopping $180 but according to a reviewer (and confirmed by my attempt to install the exe demo) IT DOES NOT WORK with the 8830 at this time.

I'm hoping that what Chillspace is saying is the reality that the conserizing of the BB will bring these needed apps soon. As I mentioned, it makes it very difficult to really bring work on the road. It amazes me I can sync my music and videos but not my office documents.

Regarding the editing of office documents - it's not as critical but more helpful than you realize. I'd never want to redline on a BB or a Palm! But if you need to make small corrections, add in timetables or make small corrections to spreadsheets it is amazing. But the real killer is the inability to simply have your entire office at your disposal. Imagine this and many of us who work do have this scenario -- You have 20 contracts from vendors, memos, white papers, etc. and you've saved them in your docs folders. Drag over all these folders onto your 2GB miniSD card and you can easily locate any of these to read while you're on the train or elsewhere. The beauty of Word vs. PDF is that with Word the words can wrap at the end of the screen just like your emails and you just scroll downwards like an email. Repligo - a GREAT application. It will allow you to reformat all your PDFs so you can scroll like the above just like a Word document.

chill and Dr.Jerry -- thanks for the heads up on what's coming up. I really am glad to hear that some of you feel my pain and know about Documents To Go and glad it will be available on the BB platform. I'd like to enjoy this machine and not have to be an exception to the rule that will try to get the Nokia, which is also with a carrier that we don't have a special corporate deal with. I was very impressed with it.

Dubdub - thanks for the recommendations. As I said, PocketDay is not as cosmetically impressive but still more than gets the job done (and in some ways much better) than 2day on Palm and the other "today page" extensions when I had a PPC. I love it and will need to learn more about how to get it to be my default screen on startup. Opera is another great addition and blows away the built in viewer.

I'm going to post my likes and dislikes here and hoping that other people who were forced, like myself, to move to a BB 8830 will appreciate the summation.

[DRI]

As for your comment "Basic applications are not available for the Blackberry like... a universal document viewer? I can't seem to find anything capable of simply reading my doc, xls, txt, lit, pdb, pdf, ppt files"

While I cannot speak to the universal document viewer, one of the added pluses with the 8800 is the ability to view in detail and clarity attached ppt files. On the fly reviewed and responded to proposed presentation sent out and dazzled others with look of presentation on the device. Migrated from 8700 to 8800 and this device only gets better.

[slinky]

Likes:

(1) Built in Blackberry Maps. I'd prefer to have an option without the need to connect and ability to perform quick searches with options but it's nice to have with the GPS capability. I don't think GoogleMaps works on the 8830 (thanks to Verizon - use anyone but them.)

(2) Blows Smartphone navigation away. I'm not so fond of some of the need to do extra taps but the machine is very responsive and for the most part it's well thought out and quick.

(3) Email experience is generally very good and there are is generally much flexibility in settings.

(4) Sleeker device, reasonably good battery, reasonably good bright screen, much better built in apps (e.g. you don't need to replace the contacts, media player is excellent)

(5) Trackball is excellent. I really miss the "page down" and other great options with the Treo 5 way controller and other function key buttons for quick access. Still, pretty well done so that it minimizes the loss and I think there is a key combo to do this. There is also the special button on the side so good job RIM.

(6) Comfortable keyboard. Despite the complaining I've heard and some difficulty with seeing the letters, the keyboard is very usable. My big gripe is that, unlike the Treo, the period key seems to require an alternate key combo. It's used too frequently to be secondary. Put it in the space under the left side alt key.

(7) Pretty good phone itself and, yes, so far it works. Few quirks but, then again, my Palm also had few quirks without many apps in it.


Here's my list of items that I'm really finding that I'm lacking right now. Thanks again for those of you who know where I'm coming from and helping me get better acquainted with the 8830:

(1) No free tethering of an 8830 to a laptop for use as a modem (all Palms can do this with PDAnet.)

(2) Inability to simply view documents on your device (doc, xls, ppt, txt, lit, rtf, htm) stored on your miniSD card (except PDF where there is a nice free viewer.) As is you cannot bookmark places in your docs and must download it all, find where you were and move on. Massive timewaster and impossible to manage if you want to have access to more than a handful of documents when mobile. Impossible to manage when you want to have access to reference documents (e.g. list of industry terms you have in a word doc, etc.) or even read simple books (e.g. I read on the train every day to work.)Additionally,f or many of us we are being more accountable to "know" outside of the office and having it with you is an amazing convenience and necessity. For those of you who say that this is what a laptop is for... well... you don't know the joys of not having to drag an extra 5 pound book/bag with you. This omission is unforgivable, especially after releasing the Curve just now. The fact that PDAs have been able to do this since the 20th century makes this even more absurd. Once again, this is the ASP mentality that also kills this platform -- everything is a service we can soak you for. Hoping this changes and SOON.

(3) Lack of organizational and interface tools for the OS. Unless there is a launcher, finding applications on a BB is a horrific mess. This might be a learning curve issue but it's not easy to just sort your apps and customize these items easily, e.g. all your games in folder "Games", utilities in "Utilities", etc. I find myself scrolling like mad to find the icon with the app I seek. Preferences -- this is a joke. Since I'm computer savvy I figured out that if you made it to the phone application you could go to the menu to set options. Global preferences/settings needs to be reorganized.

(4) No touch screen - BB has done a good job to minimize the inconvenience. I'll admit, it's miles better than a Smartphone but it is missed. I'll live without it.

(5) No camera - nice to have and I'm still finding it rare that phones with cameras are confiscated. Only a terrible pain if they start enforcing it in our building. I don't know how they will given how common they are... Curve not an option on Verizon and I like the GPS. I miss the ability to capture pictures of the whiteboard you've worked on in the boardroom but, again, I'll live without it.

(6) Cost of applications is INSANE. Instant messenger is a $50 application. Reading and writing a .doc will set you back $60. Having a spreadsheet viewer and editor will set you back $70. Just getting the basic addons to my BB will easily cost me $400 and on the Palm/PPC may have hit $100. This hurts a LOT.

(7) Lack of many useful common addons and fun factor. Hopefully chillman and others are right that these are coming. I don't really care about slingbox but it is fun. BB will be the last to get any of these. I can live with it. But what I really miss are the local city subway/bus maps applications which are fantastic. Always available even if you are underground and out of range. Offline readers, e.g. AvantGo are GREAT when you can download all the feeds and just read them without delay wherever you are - even out of range. Hopefully these will come to the BB but I worry about cost factor.

Last Note: I was debating about getting the Pearl instead since many of you have convinced me that the BB right now is mostly an email too. I agree. But since I'll find a way to get docs in there (I guess) and think that web surfing probably makes a HUGE difference on the bigger screen, then it is probably worth it to keep the extra bulk of the 8830.

I thank the adults here again for orienting the conversation in a more productive fashion. I'm stuck with a Verizon Blackberry and that's the story. I'm trying to find ways to enjoy my phone again.

[slinky]

Originally Posted by DRI

As for your comment "Basic applications are not available for the Blackberry like... a universal document viewer? I can't seem to find anything capable of simply reading my doc, xls, txt, lit, pdb, pdf, ppt files"

While I cannot speak to the universal document viewer, one of the added pluses with the 8800 is the ability to view in detail and clarity attached ppt files. On the fly reviewed and responded to proposed presentation sent out and dazzled others with look of presentation on the device. Migrated from 8700 to 8800 and this device only gets better.

DRI - I appreciate your comments. See above - on the Palm and PPC platform this capability has been there for years and with great clarity. Even better, you can even edit documents... ever find a last second typo? :D

The real challenge is that life goes well beyond email as I've mentioned. Reading a doc sent to you, it's great. But how about having 10 docs you want to read when you're traveling on an hour train ride or just to reference? You can't just pop stuff on an SD card and view them. Plus, if you're out of range, e.g. on the train in dead spots or on the plane and not easy to use your laptop, you're just out of luck. Can't do much except put on a track on your MP3 player. :D

One last example - I have several train schedules on my Palm. I just whip open a doc viewer to see in my xls when the next train is arriving. On the Blackberry you can't even do this. What am I supposed to do? Send myself several emails and keep them stored somewhere on the device and have it open the attachment every time? It's a huge loss...

[forevergreen]

slinky, some pertinent tips:

space bar = page down
hit space bar twice = insert period

I disable the dial from home screen and use all the shortcuts:
L for calendar
M for messages
N for messenger
A for address book
O for options
K for keyboard lock
B for browser
C tp compose an email
I for ideamatrix
x for todomatrix
d for memopad
t for task pad

any other apps that don't have hot keys, I reorganize to show at the top of my theme like: password keeper, google maps, and media player

Also, I think you're catching flack because of your approach, you're anything but endearing.

[forevergreen]

other shortcuts:

F for profiles
U for calculator
H for help
R for alarm
S to search

I literally almost never look for an icon except for the 3 that I occasionally use that don''t have shortcuts, but those are the only ones on my bb home screen

[juwaack68]

You can also move icons around so the once you use the most are at the top and the ones you don't use much are at the bottom....or you can even hide those icons if you don't want to see them.

To hide/move an icon, highlight it, click the menu button, and click hide or move application. If moving, use the trackball to move it where you want it and click the trackwheel to 'drop' it.

[slinky]

forevergreen - Thanks for the info. The problem was that right away instead of just reading my post a couple of members here had nothing better to do but start hurtling insults and not accept and realize that the transition from a PDA to Blackberry can be difficult and I had to own one and didn't come here just to dump.

To begin, the troll was able to find an application that is the be all end all for the Blackberry. For all of you who just could hurl insults, perhaps this could make you think twice next time and understand that most of us are pretty well meaning.

(1) Offline Document Reader for numerous kinds of documents:

Mobipocket ebook Reader

While this is not Documents To Go or a true Microsoft Office reader/editor, etc., THIS IS what I really need most. It's a pain to have to "convert" every document to this format but at least it makes it possible to have these docs readable on a Blackberry. It converts even prc Palm files rather well. It has several other features and induces you to want to purchase ebooks from them for this amazing application. I'm converting my DOC files and XLS to be viewable. Doc is great, XLS is not but it at least is viewable.

(2) Maps / Tube Replacement

There is nothing I've found that is as good as Tube but at least having the maps available at my disposal as GIFs is good enough.

(3) RSS Reader ala Avant Go -

Again, Mobipocket is the Killer App. Apparently it will do everything Avant Go will and then some. It is a real joy and the document conversions are excellent.

(4) Tethering - Unfortunately you have to still pony up $40 per month to Verizon. Their day of reckoning will come... this is very tough. My laptop is now unfortunately not connected any more.

Can't do much about the other items. On my must buy list I have the following:

(1) Cellica Software Services
BlackBerry Database Viewer Plus(Access,Excel,Oracle) - This is a luxury but wow... it seems pretty amazing to design your own databases and have full sync. Not essential for most usage but definitely a look.

Alternative: Track It - Looks easier and clean interface. Don't like that checkboxes require numerous clicks (can't just do on/off, must do edit item and scroll to on/off of checkbox.)

(2) Slovo Ed Dictionaries - I want several of these and they worked well on Palm and are cheapest.

(3) VR+:Free VoiceRecorder plus Send option in licensed version - Must get for voice notes and recording. Don't need the send option and wonder if this is really free.

(4) Ascendo Money - Seems to be the only major financial/expenses app that works with Quicken, etc.

(5) Data Vault or Splash Wallet - Not sure if this is necessary given the BB app that is built in. Seems like it is necessary unless you want to enter everything into your BB and easier on the desktop.

(6) Pocket Day Pro - Essential. If there is one app to get this one seems to be it.

(7) IM+ and IM+ Skype: The former is the one to get if you do any IM. It is really poor that you only get one account per IM for $50. Unfortunately the competition was purchased by Nokia and gone.

So while I'll really miss my camera and it's unfortunate that the Curve is not happening, I do have a multimode phone with GPS which is rather nice (if I can unlock it eventually... may Verizon lose tons of sales when Sprint releases their unlocked 8830) and it seems we can get started with reasonable satisfaction. Many thanks to you forevergreen and juwaack68 for the short list of abbreviations and nav. Hopefully Palm Treo owners will appreciate the research here that will make the transition less painful and tolerable until the other applications are BlackBerryized.

[slinky]

I spoke too soon... insufficient memory for just a dozen applications. Wow...

Is there any way to run some of these applications of a miniSD card? The memory limitation is pretty severe...

[CanuckBB]

Slinky, as many have mentioned, you have the wrong device. Yes, I know work forced it on you, but the BB is not a tiny laptop. It's a communication device for when you are not at your desk. It delivers your e-mails quickly and reliably. It will sync your tasks and calendar items. It will let you browse the internet if you must.

It;s a tool to get that e-mail with an attachment, read it and reply that you have seen it and will make corrections when you get to your computer.

[penguin3107]

Originally Posted by slinky

Is there any way to run some of these applications of a miniSD card?

No, there isn't. (It's microSD, by the way.)
The SD card is for media only.

[why1504]

We all have different requirements. For me it is phone first, email second, stability third, and everything else is optional. I have carried Pocket PC and Palm Devices. For my requirements BB is far and away the best. Most of the posters here are business users. As for cost. I had a cell phone in 1990. The phone cost $700 and my monthly bill ran $500 a month quite regularly (like 500 min, no data available). By the late 90's the price of the device got down to around $300, and the bills ran about $175 for about 500 minutes. Of course the batteries talk time was only around 30 minutes a day. The next couple of phones gave me good battery power, and WAP browsers big improvement. Then I moved to the Palm based phones ( I had 2 or 3). It would lock up without me knowing it. Then to the Pocket PC's, same issues as the Palm. When Verizon came out with the BB 7250 I jumped and have never looked back. 30 months later, I purchased my new 8830. That 7250 lasted at least twice as long as any phone has lasted in my hands. The 8830 cost $115 with the rebate. My phone plan is about $175 includes unlimited data, 1350 minutes, free nights and weekends, 250 SMS, modem tethering, insurance, free in network calling, etc. I have already spent about $100 on accessories. I am still looking @ software. I use Verizon because I always have coverage. I work 70-90 hours a week . I could care less about cost, I find the BB to be a heck of a value based on the lack of aggravation and time it saves me. For me my time is much more valuable than the cell phone costs. Now, if you need some additional software here you do you job raise the issue to the IT department and management. Efficiency is important to companies, $150 in software is nothing as long as the ROI is there. You just need to show the return.

Now, if out of the box features and costs are your drivers, go over to a different carrier and get the feature phone you want. Less cost, more features, less coverage.

Everything is a trade-off.

[Dawg]

Originally Posted by why1504

We all have different requirements. For me it is phone first, email second, stability third, and everything else is optional. I have carried Pocket PC and Palm Devices. For my requirements BB is far and away the best. Most of the posters here are business users. As for cost. I had a cell phone in 1990. The phone cost $700 and my monthly bill ran $500 a month quite regularly (like 500 min, no data available). By the late 90's the price of the device got down to around $300, and the bills ran about $175 for about 500 minutes. Of course the batteries talk time was only around 30 minutes a day. The next couple of phones gave me good battery power, and WAP browsers big improvement. Then I moved to the Palm based phones ( I had 2 or 3). It would lock up without me knowing it. Then to the Pocket PC's, same issues as the Palm. When Verizon came out with the BB 7250 I jumped and have never looked back. 30 months later, I purchased my new 8830. That 7250 lasted at least twice as long as any phone has lasted in my hands. The 8830 cost $115 with the rebate. My phone plan is about $175 includes unlimited data, 1350 minutes, free nights and weekends, 250 SMS, modem tethering, insurance, free in network calling, etc. I have already spent about $100 on accessories. I am still looking @ software. I use Verizon because I always have coverage. I work 70-90 hours a week . I could care less about cost, I find the BB to be a heck of a value based on the lack of aggravation and time it saves me. For me my time is much more valuable than the cell phone costs. Now, if you need some additional software here you do you job raise the issue to the IT department and management. Efficiency is important to companies, $150 in software is nothing as long as the ROI is there. You just need to show the return.

Now, if out of the box features and costs are your drivers, go over to a different carrier and get the feature phone you want. Less cost, more features, less coverage.

Everything is a trade-off.

nicely stated..

[asteele]

My (3yr old) iPAQ 4150 PocketPC can do almost everything very nicely, with the main exception of email... which the BlackBerry of course does absolutely brilliantly.

I still use the PocketPC, but not nearly as often as the BlackBerry.

...they are both very different devices - and are used in very different ways.


I remember the difficulties in having to migrate from a Psion Series 5 to a PocketPC -- it was a disappointing time not being able to do the things the way that I used to... and it took me a while before I realised that you actually need to install 3rd party applications on the PocketPC before you can do very much (how mad does that sound today!) - but the Psion had absolutely superb applications already installed as default. I still do miss some of the Psion applications actually - but you have to go with the flow in the end!


If you need to use email, then your BlackBerry will grow on you - just keep your Psion/PocketPC/Palm nearby for those other things that you want to do. But, don't forget to keep your other device on a charger, otherwise you might find that a few weeks have gone by since you last used your PocketPC/Palm and the battery and memory has all gone! ( Not quite so with the Psion which runs for 6 weeks on 2x AA batteries, and then has a lithium backup.... if only I had not dropped it onto concrete 3yrs ago sigh! )