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Old 06-20-2007, 02:39 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Alexzander View Post
In my humble opinion, only business users can truly afford these fees for extended periods of time. We get a return on this investment that goes beyond cool.

Witness my friends that months ago claimed to have forund the perfect cell phone... again. Now all of the sudden, their cell phone sucks, and they want iPhones. I give em 6 months of high fees before I hear the old, "my cell phone sucks" line again. -Alex Alexzander
Great points indeed - it did take a bit to read - but I think I captured the essence... your absolutely right.... Business users see behind the glitz of a shiny new toy... a smart buyer buys things for its relevant use in their life and the features behind the device... someone can give away a shiny stainless steel auto-dialing virtual reality showing phone (but if it doesn't have things I need) what is the point?

BB doesnt' have anything to worry about from their "business" users but it would be nice to have more - and yes TeleNave is incredible... who needs DVD based GPS system in your car when this thing is all you need?

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Old 06-20-2007, 03:07 PM   #22
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I don't think the iPhone will in the long run hurt RIM, may cause them to roll some things out quicker initially but, the same things they are saying about the iPhone they probably said the exact same about the sidekick, and 3 generations of that, look at who the customer base is for each product.
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Old 06-20-2007, 03:18 PM   #23
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i like the device. Im not on BES and i love my BB but if the iphone can get my mail in a resonable time then i dont see alot of problems. I mean I wait 15 min now for most everything.
as for the touchscreen typing, i dont see much of a problem with it if it has a decent system of catching typos, i have used something kinda similar with my touchscreen laptop for work and i dont have a problem other than an occasional typo.

they just said they uped the battery life to 8 hours talk time so thats better, but will have to see it. Also a plus is the ipod being in there, as my 8800 is still very much lacking in the media dept. as far as menus and speed. browsing is horrible for me on the bb, and i only really use rss and will be anxious to see how safari works with the EDGE speeds.

overall im a happy RIM customer but am definitely interested in the iphone for the reasons above, it would be a different story if I was on BES but without that i'm open to it.

dwp, one thing i think they will roll out faster is the BIS with a quicker response time as with yahoo and others start dong their own push systems their advantage with it will diminish unless they add some speed. my 2cents worth.
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Old 06-20-2007, 03:25 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teamcrn View Post
Apple - iPhone - Get Ready

Apple will sync with outlook it will be more of a business tool then people think. If they intergrate Ichat and a BES alternative for companies. More people will switch then people expect.
Syncing by plugging into computer is so '90s... without real-time over-the-air syncing it is of limited business use.
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Old 06-20-2007, 03:28 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Alexzander View Post
iPhone certainly looks cool. I think the look will impress many. But that lasts only so long. In the end, it's the quality of the experience that really keeps a customer in any company's court.

With BB, you have direct access to Lotus Notes, Exchange, or GroupWise. With iPhone, you'd have open up the company to standard ports like POP3 and IMAP, and thus invite spam, and insecure snoopers into your corporate network. All because someone on the payrole wants to play with their telephone.

Push email is in itself, a killer-app. I have had many mobile devices, and in my humble opinion, there is nothing like push email. I don't check for mail, I am told when it has arrived. Which means I am totally free to do what I need to do until such time as the phone tells me someone is trying to reach me. Kids won't care for that, but I think most business uers will soon miss that if they moved to the lame phone. Oh sorry, iPhone.

Now, I can't speak for everyone here, but email to me is a huge part of the BB. I type on busses, trains, a few times even while walking. I don't a for a second believe I will be anywhere near as fast on email with the iPhone as I am with the BB.

Software

Anyone with Telenav on the BB can tell you, it's a killer-app. Those days of being two blocks from an address you just can't find anyway are over with such a feature. I started using it once or twice, and then started to see just how good it was, and now that alone kills the iPhone for me. No telenav, no sale.

Do you honestly think you'd actually watch full movies on the iPhone? I have a PSP, and I bring it with me on trips. I have quite a few UMD movies. From San Francisco to New York, I got past one movie on the PSP, and then opted to watch another on the seat-back option for $4.95. I didn't have to hold the PSP upright anymore, and I could fall asleep and not worry about dropping my expensive toy. You'll soon see what I see. It's tedious to hold a small device for 2 hours watching a program. You'll soon discover audio books are better, and guess what, those don't need a screen. And then after you start paying $34 per book, you'll discover that the same book can be bought for $7.95 at any airport, and you don't have to sync them. And if you lose it, who cares, just buy it again, it was only $7. So take my advice and cut to the chase. We really just need basic services that work extremely well. Email, Phone, and a little help when we are lost. In every case, I see the BB as the stronger product.

Am I saying iPhone will be a non-starter? No, I am sure lots of clueless kids will rush oout and spend every last bit of their Burger King income to buy one. But seriously, how long will that last? How long until they get tired of paying what we pay monthly for the services we so easily justify for business? Pretty soon they will give up data, cut their minutes, and that pretty phone will become a boat anchor.

In my humble opinion, only business users can truly afford these fees for extended periods of time. We get a return on this investment that goes beyond cool.

Witness my friends that months ago claimed to have forund the perfect cell phone... again. Now all of the sudden, their cell phone sucks, and they want iPhones. I give em 6 months of high fees before I hear the old, "my cell phone sucks" line again.

Are they really going to want to spend time reading web pages on a 3" screen? Come on... I get basic news via RSS, and I do that for less than maybe 15 minutes a day. Is it really so bad on the BB? Or is it just that the iPhone looks so cool, that you have to have one? How long does cool last?

What about add on software? I have an Oxford Dictionary on my BB. I use that quite often too. I'd miss it. I have IM+ and IM+ for Skype. Can't get either one of those for the iPhone.

So let me see if I understand all this iPhone hype. You get less features, less software, no push email, no GPS, no ability to replace the battery while waiting for your plane to board, and you can't type messages ona real keyboard, and for some reason, all of that is okay? Since when? Man, Jobs is good if he is able to sell you less features for more money, and make you desire it at the same time. Hell, I should hire him to sell our products!

-Alex Alexzander
Based on your clear disdain for the iPhone prime market- 18-40 yo with money to burn, I suspect that you have very little understanding of the concept of marketing.

With BIG BUSINESS BEGGING for this device (see wsj story- MOST POPULAR STORY TODAY AND YESTERDAY!) Apple could easily broaden the reach of this device and open up their servers to it. There is no telling how far the market will expand. 1st Gen will obviously have some kinks, as always, but what The Jobster has done to his immense credit is completely turn an industry on its head by trying to innovate- not reinvent, but INNOVATE.

Your 'humble' opinions are not humble at all- they are deliberate jabs at a product that you've never used/experienced intended to probably justify to yourself why you SHOULDN'T want to own this product dispute the fact that you REALLY REALLY WANT ONE!
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Old 06-20-2007, 03:32 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flashman View Post
Syncing by plugging into computer is so '90s... without real-time over-the-air syncing it is of limited business use.
Not Saying Rim Will Lose Customers but allot of People are on BIS and Plugging up to Sync is second nature. Apple has a Big Opportunity here to crash the handset party. I think itís a wait and see approach. All they have to do is be half as successful as Danger (sidekick) and they will be fine the profit margin on each handset is so huge and they have the cool factor already. If it has an once of usability people will switch. I think the product will get better as time goes on. I just dislike ATT so much i refuse to switch pre paid is the only way i will get one.
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Old 06-20-2007, 08:36 PM   #27
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wow! I just went to the iPhone site and looked at the specs and saw the side image of the iPhone and that it's a thin phone, that changes alot as I thought for some reason it was going to have the girth of a treo, shows you how much I've been paying it attention. My co-worker wants to get one, and I have been dubbed the "smartphone" expert at work, so that means I get to play with her iPhone when she buys it next week and see how it stacks up to smartphones.
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Old 06-20-2007, 09:00 PM   #28
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The iPhone will sell huge; it won't kill the BlackBerry, but don't underestimate the power of the iPhone. As that WSJ piece mentions, many corporate suits are lining up to buy the iPhone for personal use.

I know many people who ordinarily wouldn't consider an advanced smartphone who will buy the iPhone. Just yesterday I encountered a grandmother who is going to buy the iPhone so she can be the "cool" grandma. People will be surprised at the far reaching appeal of the iPhone.

BB's will still be king of the corporate world, and king of email, so there is room enough for both, but anyone who bets against the iPhone is going to lose.
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Old 06-21-2007, 12:49 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jewberry View Post
Based on your clear disdain for the iPhone prime market- 18-40 yo with money to burn, I suspect that you have very little understanding of the concept of marketing.

With BIG BUSINESS BEGGING for this device (see wsj story- MOST POPULAR STORY TODAY AND YESTERDAY!) Apple could easily broaden the reach of this device and open up their servers to it. There is no telling how far the market will expand. 1st Gen will obviously have some kinks, as always, but what The Jobster has done to his immense credit is completely turn an industry on its head by trying to innovate- not reinvent, but INNOVATE.

Your 'humble' opinions are not humble at all- they are deliberate jabs at a product that you've never used/experienced intended to probably justify to yourself why you SHOULDN'T want to own this product dispute the fact that you REALLY REALLY WANT ONE!
I dunno, man. I appreciate that the marketing-hype generated by the Apple machine (no one, and I mean NO ONE, does that better) has definitely created widespread demand from all demographics (with enough disposable income), but specs are specs and it's impossible to deny that from a "spec" standpoint, the iPhone is inferior to the current iteration of the BB in most business-relevant categories. No GPS, no push email, no two-way ota synchronization, no ota PIM, and that touchscreen keyboard, while cool, is going to expose for a lot of people the importance of the tactle feeback of a "real" keyboard (even on itsy-bitsy keys).

I mean, when it comes down to it, the iPhone is really a souped-up video iPod that has a phone feature. That fact is going to ultimately kill it in the corporate-user market.

So, yes, while Apple's marketing machine has this thing so hyped that people, including A LOT of corporate america, can't wait to get their hands on it, when that hype dies (and it will -- it always does), those in "big business" (of which I and many others on this board are one) who just "had to have one" will realize that they (or their firm) spent twice as much on a device that does half as much (from a business perspective), and those users will switch back to their BB.

I think that in the consumer market the iPhone will be a raging success, but once the hysteria dies down, it will be a complete flop in the corporate market. This thing simply does not represent a long-term problem for RIM -- in its bread and butter marketplace, anyway.

-Mav
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Old 06-21-2007, 01:25 AM   #30
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There is NO INNOVATIONS in iPhone - nothing new talking of technology is there. But sales will be HUGE because these guys know how to make people "waiting and shaking".. it is like chemicals in fast food which cause profuse salivation. There is nothing BIG in iPhone like there was nothing BIG in IPod - same functions as many analogs have.

Device is small and there is NO on-screen keyboard able to provide same comfort and typing speed as QWERTY does. Everybody who does lots of typing on BB doesn't even like SureType which has VERY good predicative typing software compared with T9 or analogs.. So my point is that many BB users will play with iPhone for some time and come back to RIM's camp.

I am sure iPhone will do it's job with all main and especially multimedia functions pretty good but again - it is not even close to REVOLUTIONAL device...

And talking about additional software this toy will loose all points.. Palm and PPC devices are leaders there and BB is very far from them... I do not know about other people but for me 3'd party software is BIG deal and strongly affects my choice of smartphone. My BB 8800 is just a "cool phone" and all applications for real mobile life I have in my Palm LifeDrive...
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Old 06-21-2007, 01:41 AM   #31
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I think no removable/replaceable battery, and no 3g for the iphone are a terrible mistake

ive seen the tv ad where they have the new york times front page online, but they dont show how long the page takes to load, and they dont click on any links-- they just zoom in and out on the same page,

i think people expect the internet on the iphone will be broadband fast and theyre going to be surprised/disappointed to find it more like dial up
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Old 06-21-2007, 02:07 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flashman View Post
Syncing by plugging into computer is so '90s... without real-time over-the-air syncing it is of limited business use.
Agreed.
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Old 06-21-2007, 11:39 AM   #33
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I'm a 8703e user and am eligible for an upgrade. I'm strictly a business user of the BB and have no need for the media etc. of the 8830. First off, the phone must be at least par. I also use the SMS, email, calendar and contacts programs constantly. Do you you business BB users recommend the 8830? Is the battery life really worse than the 8703e? Does the phone freeze up?
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Old 06-21-2007, 12:34 PM   #34
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Seeing the presentation made by the CEO of apple looked all good, slick graphics, accurate reponse. But in my experience revolutionary products like this have huge amount of gremlins. Every device I have trialled thats xxx8220;newxxx8221; turned out to be cr*p (excessive I know) but in honesty itxxx8217;s the reliable tried and tested firmware/software that generally wins through. N95 symbian wohoo.. Rubbish! Return rate 11% and rising should be higher but people donxxx8217;t use all aspects of the phone.HTC Tytn HSDPA? Jog on it kills it! Another revolutionary device that failed R&D/quality control need to do more work before releasing these devises. My first BB device was an 8700 god dam bomb proof loved it. Got a 8800 and a pearl pearl is dreadfully flawed have had to return tons of them. I see this was BB attempt at a media based phone in essence there prototype which they wanted to gauge how the market would respond to a BB with Media functions on it,, hence the recent release of the 88 and 83.

Iphone I can see having huge issues and to be honest itxxx8217;s a different market audience.
Too much software functionality cramend into a tiny device ka-booooom!! Crash error!
Non removeable battery?? What thexxx8230;..?
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Old 06-21-2007, 12:53 PM   #35
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Is the iPhone the new PS3??? It will sell like crazy on ebay and around the world.. then slow down rapidly. I have a lot of faith in apple though after the iPod they completely dominate that market.
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Old 06-21-2007, 01:13 PM   #36
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would you run your business with a iphone??
if your answers yes?, good luck with bankruptcy!
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Old 06-21-2007, 01:29 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swerveit View Post
would you run your business with a iphone??
if your answers yes?, good luck with bankruptcy!
If you run your business strictly on any phone, good luck. I mean I know this is a BB site and all but can no other product ever even be good?maybe not great like the almighty BB but even good? I mean honestly I like my 8800 but im not in love with it to the point that i will bash anything remotely similar that comes out. As ive said before no product is perfect and neither are the users..

as for the comments about nothing new in the iphone. well their was nothing new about the ipod other than its ease of use and it did fairly well i think. Its not always about new technologies, it can sometimes be about new ways of pairing existing technologies.
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Last edited by test54; 06-21-2007 at 01:32 PM..
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Old 06-21-2007, 03:05 PM   #38
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One's a tool, one's a toy; both have their places.
However, ask any attractive woman, and she'll tell ya that a toy is a poor substitute for a tool.

Last edited by ofelas; 06-21-2007 at 03:06 PM..
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Old 06-21-2007, 03:13 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ofelas View Post
One's a tool, one's a toy; both have their places.
However, ask any attractive woman, and she'll tell ya that a toy is a poor substitute for a tool.
well, any attractive woman is looking more for the value of the toy than the size of the tool.

And i understand the argument about toy vs. tool but RIM has gotten into the toy market haven't they, the 8800, 8830 i would still call "tool" but the 8300 and 8100 would lean more towards toy - camera, new media options are certainly not for the business customers. For the most part they do the same things so I dont think that argument holds as much merit as it did even 2 years ago.
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Old 06-21-2007, 03:33 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by test54 View Post
If you run your business strictly on any phone, good luck. I mean I know this is a BB site and all but can no other product ever even be good?maybe not great like the almighty BB but even good? I mean honestly I like my 8800 but im not in love with it to the point that i will bash anything remotely similar that comes out. As ive said before no product is perfect and neither are the users..

as for the comments about nothing new in the iphone. well their was nothing new about the ipod other than its ease of use and it did fairly well i think. Its not always about new technologies, it can sometimes be about new ways of pairing existing technologies.
I will be trialing it in 3 weeks, I try to stay impartial with all devices, I lived with HTC windows devices for 2 years. It was only by accident that I started using a BB. But I havenít found anything that is as reliable , granted there are so many more devices that do a hell of a lot more but no way as reliable. If you break a blackberry down its just a glorified texting machine with a encryption code but it does it well and it reliable!

I have a number of clients that literally run there business from there phones reason being there field based. I know if I advised account managers to use a certain phone that ended up crashing causing issues we would loose accounts like styluses on PDAs!
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