[turn_key]

Originally Posted by LunkHead

Here is my .02....

As long as they are not out in public kissing / getting it on while in uniform then I can care less about gays in the military...

Perhaps if there was a way to prove it, some of our greatest war heroes *might* have been gay....

Of all who stormed Normandy and bravely gave their life, I guarantee a few were gay...

Like I said, my .02

Kris

I agree. As long as they do their job, it makes no difference. Although there is a ban, don't ask don't tell makes sense. Whether you're gay or straight, it's all personal and should have nothing to do with performance. If people are going out of their way to ask or tell, then they obviously have a problem with it. I know gays that I call my friends and would gladly place my life in their hands, and I know plenty of straight guys that are cowards and I watch them more than I watch the bad guys.

Not to play devil's advocate between Dawg and dmead but unlike a gay parade, a marriage announcement is not intended to advertise a couple's sexual preference (although that's what one can infer from it), but to announce a marriage. If that was the intention than it would be called a heterosexual announcement. If a gay couple could marry, then I would welcome them to place a marriage announcement in the paper as well and not read them like I don't read all of the other marriage announcements.

The only problem I have with anyone, and it has nothing to do with what/who/color/race/gender/sexuality, is when they throw it in my face. When I say I don't care, it really means I don't care... as in a complete lack of interest or opinion. However, when it's waved in my face and they say I have to accept it, then that person hides behind laws or screams racist/bigot/hater/ignorant just because they can get away with it, that's when I have a problem with that person. I've experienced that far more times than I care to mention.

The point is no one likes to be forced to accept anything at gunpoint. People do more damage to their cause when they try to legislate acceptance than they do by just living as an example. To use Lunk's analogy; at the end of any war, does it matter if the guy who saved your life, who fought just as bravely, and who gave everything for their country is gay? Don't ask don't tell can work because it allows gays to serve and prove themselves.

The ban was in place because of social opinion. Don't ask don't tell was the logical step. The ban will be lifted eventually, but social change happens slowly.

[test54]

There is no logical reason for it. It's discrimination plain and simple, it's not based on performance or any legit reason.

[turn_key]

Originally Posted by test54

There is no logical reason for it. It's discrimination plain and simple, it's not based on performance or any legit reason.

Logic isn't used enough in policy making.

[LunkHead]

*snip*

Under the 1993 "Don't ask, don't tell" policy, Pub.L. 103-160 (10 U.S.C. xxx65533; 654), it is prohibited to disclose any information regarding homosexual behavior, including one's sexual orientation, while serving in the United States Armed Forces. Military officials are also prohibited from investigating the sexuality of personnel.

The policy was created by Colin Powell in a compromise between supporters of the previous policy that banned all non-heterosexuals from military service and President Clinton, who promised to amend the law.

According to preliminary Pentagon data, more than 1,000 service members were discharged each year from 1997 to 2001 on average. In the past five years the average has fallen below 730 due to a shortage in military recruits. (Source: The Washington Post)

Department of Defense has defended its past discrimination policy claiming that homosexual and bisexual people pose a security risk by eroding unit cohesion and morale. The report argues that most homosexuals and bisexuals are pedophiles who engage in a self-destructive and immoral life-style. Homosexual service men and women have been targets of harassment, at times leading to assault and murder.

*/snip*

[kathrynhr]

Originally Posted by ezrunner

I don't believe ones sexual preference should matter

I knew a few guys/gals that were gay when I served they did their jobs and did them well that is what matters

Me too.

I admit I feel uncomfortable when someone is overtly sexual in public, be they gay or straight.

(+1 to a fellow vet!)

Dawg:

I, too, am a conservative Christian. However, I think we do our faith and other people a disservice by expecting gay people to remain hidden and silent. Only when something is brought out into the open can it ever be addressed in any meaningful way.

[CoDudette]

So basically, if you're capable of doing your job, defend your country, be ready to sacrifice your life for the safety of your homeland, but are gay you can't be in the military? Since when do sexual preferences have to be a criteria for defending your country?!!!!

[test54]

Obama administration reverses Bush policy, backs UN anti-discrimination text on gay rights -- chicagotribune.com

"Obama administration reverses Bush policy, backs anti-discrimination text on gay rights"

from the article - WASHINGTON (AP) — The Obama administration on Wednesday formally endorsed a U.N. declaration calling for the worldwide decriminalization of homosexuality, a measure that former President George W. Bush had refused to sign.

[kathrynhr]

Good.

[Dawg]

OH boy hes already in bed with the Crooked UN now we are really screwed

[test54]

Originally Posted by Dawg

OH boy hes already in bed with the Crooked UN now we are really screwed

so Dawg would you vote against this declaration?

every President has to deal with the UN. The US is the central figure in it, same with IMF and World Bank.

[Dawg]

Yes, I would as long as it had anything to do with the UN. I think the UN needs to be thrown out of the US and we should withdraw from it. I feel the UN is an outdated and crooked organization

[kathrynhr]

Originally Posted by Dawg

Yes, I would as long as it had anything to do with the UN. I think the UN needs to be thrown out of the US and we should withdraw from it. I feel the UN is an outdated and crooked organization

How would throwing the UN out prevent corruption?

I believe the hydra would just sprout another head.

Better to reform the existing structure.

[LunkHead]

I agree that the UN is a joke for the most part....

[test54]

The media covers a lot of the corrupt people in the UN. But they actually do a ton of good humanitarian things throughout the developing world. I personally do not think its something that needs to go away. It might need some regulations like everything else but the good it does outweighs the bad in my opinion.

[Dawg]

Originally Posted by kathrynhr

How would throwing the UN out prevent corruption?

I believe the hydra would just sprout another head.

Better to reform the existing structure.

If we with drew from it that would be a start. If the US were to with draw other countrys would follow. That in turn woul turn the UN on its end.

[test54]

Dawg that might have been true during the Cold War but the UN would carry on even without us. It maybe smaller but the world does not do as we say like they used to.

[kathrynhr]

Originally Posted by test54

It maybe smaller but the world does not do as we say like they used to.

+1, and it's a good thing they don't (inconvenient though it may be). We will now have the chance to behave more ethically going forward.

[mriff]

Originally Posted by kathrynhr

+1, and it's a good thing they don't (inconvenient though it may be). We will now have the chance to behave more ethically going forward.

+ 2

[Dawg]

Originally Posted by test54

Dawg that might have been true during the Cold War but the UN would carry on even without us. It maybe smaller but the world does not do as we say like they used to.

You are correct and it would be more corrupt than it is now. I still say it needs to be put out of the US.

[wabbit]

this is how i see it, they are their to fight a war, on our side, not make love, with that said, w/e their sexual preference should have no affect on their job roles.