[VidGameKing]

Just to let everyone know, RIM has shot themselves in the foot with taking too long for the 4.2 upgrade on the 8700, and not making the 8800 HSDPA/UMTS (GSM 3G) compatible. I've been using the Blackberry since the days of the 900 series. And tomorrow I will be upgrading from the 8700 which I own to a Cingular 8525 smart phone. I was hoping the 8800 or the iPhone would have 3G but apparently RIM's engineers and Apple's engineers are too stupid to see that 3G is a requirement. It's very sad that I'm being forced by RIM to abandon Blackberries.

Was it so much to ask for a minor OS update? Or even, when designing a replacement to a phone making it significantly different than the previous model?

I mean seriously aside from the 8800 having the 4.2 OS (probably) and it using a dorky little trackball instead of a jog wheel what is the real difference? I'm not seeing enough of a difference between the 8800 and the 8700! Wi-Fi????? Who in their right mind would really care about Wi-Fi??? Unless of course you happen to live in a place that's got Wi-Fi everywhere, Wi-Fi is only good at home, work, and maybe the coffee shop... I don't know about you guys but I use my BB in far more locations than those. Locations that DONT have Wi-Fi. The only other reason for Wi-Fi is syncing to a computer wirelessly, and even that is pointless. The BB needs to be connected to charge, and syncing happens at the same time. I live in the San Francisco Bay Area 3G is everywhere, Wi-Fi is not.

The sole reason for using a blackberry is to utilize its data connection. For communications proposes, or for data proposes. The faster the connection, the better the device. Without a faster data connection for me any new BB is pointless. It is no better than what I have now. And the only good smart phone available now with 3G is the 8525. I had written off Windows Mobile before, but apparently if I want speed, I have to go with a junky OS.

You know what else really stinks; it's that I've been a very loyal customer, even convincing many friends to convert to the BB way of thinking. I've purchased all of my BB outright without contracts, so Cingular and RIM managed to get the most amount of money out of me. I’m a true "fanboy" with enough disposable income to just go out and buy... Why would they want to jade me? I can't be the only one that’s feeling jaded by this. I and those that think like I do are a profitable market to RIM, and by doing this they've just lost that part of their market.

It's disgusting.

[NJBlackBerry]

** Moved to Rants and Raves **

[foner]

That'll show 'em! Good luck with that...

[Stinsonddog]

Built in GPS and Voice Activated Dialing are two good features. Yes I wish it had 3g too,but alas it won't and now rumors of no wifi either, but for a work tool, it will be sweet.

[John Clark]

I was a skeptic of the trackball at first but I would never go back to that thing they call a trackwheel. What's up with not being able to move sideways??? Trackball = BIG improvement! IMHO

[VidGameKing]

the 8525 has a trackwheel, and a touchscreen. Coupled with Microsoft voice command, I'll be able to give voice commands for every feature of the smart phone. And as for GPS, a Bluetooth GPS is great. but these are all minor features.

like Stinsonddog said: It's a work tool. And I run a website, I need a fast connection NOW the 8700 was great a year ago, but edge is old technology. I need fast 3G, and since it's availible in my neck of the woods, I don't see why I cant have it.

BTW, the Palm 750's great, except it's got the tiniest keyboard I've ever seen!!

[Ashton]

while I personally think that WM05 is the best mobile OS avalible at the time (note: I didn't say it doesn't stink, I _WANT_ to se llinux on a phone!!!) you're absolutely right, the BB is not a phone, it's a data tool, and on said tool, there is really no reason for WiFi, and it should have access to the most current network avalible. I do think the trackwheel (jogbial) is an annoying way to move around, after using the Dell Axim line with it's 4-way scroll *and* a touchscreen display but that would not be a dealbreaker for me. tjough personally... EDGE is Blazing compared to what I'm on, so I'd take it and be happy...

You'll love the fees, though, you pay for phone service and data, no BIS fees needed! That's why I'm looking for a good smartphone with a qwerty; I can't afford BIS and w/o it the BB is too crippled for me (though it still serves it purpose to give me web access from anywhere in the country right now --- that's why I bought it)

[VidGameKing]

I had a really really really bad experiance with a Motorols MPx220 windows smartphone, I don't like to talk about it...

But I loved my old dell Axim X5, and all that functionality combined with a fold out querty keypad, and 3G... It's too much for the 8800 to compete with.

That and I'm a BIS subscriber, so I get my e-mail every 10 to 15 minutes so setting up pocket outlook to get my e-mail automaticy every 5 minutes would be better than what I've got now.

[gdpmumin]

In theory, other mobile OS options seem viable. Until you actually use them and find that they're all about 1/3 as reliable as the BlackBerry. Maybe it will be there when you need it; maybe it won't. Maybe you'll need to do a soft reset; maybe you won't. But when you turn on a BB, it's there. It's never not there.

I speak from experience. I am a loooooong time PocketPC/WM5 user on the PDA front. So when it was time to move to a mobile device, I held on to my PDAs and added a BlackBerry. I later decided to converge into one unit and switched to a WM5 Treo. After 48 hours, it went back to the store and I had a new BB.

My wife was very patient with her Treo for a year. At least every other day I heard, "Greg, my e-mail won't send" or "I had to reset my phone three times today!" Since changing her over to a BB two weeks ago, I haven't heard either one of those statements once.

So your options are to wait on a slightly upgraded BB OS 4.2 or impatiently move to a far inferior device. I think you'll be very, very sorry you did that. And sooner rather than later.

And by the way, I do still use my WM5 PDA pretty regularly.

[Aroc]

WTF. I don't understand your requirement for 3G. Are you tethering (I notice you mention that you run websites)? It can be because of the fantastic browsers we get on the Blackberry. I understand 3G is supposed to allow simultaneous data and voice, which is good if you plan on tethering. And if you're doing that much tethering (we haven't established that you are) a 3G card for a notebook computer would be a better bet (transfer rates are purported to be much better).

The complaint with BB/RIM have generally all been about the handhelds, themselves. So I agree with you there. But I don't see why 3G is such a requirement for you at this point. I've surveyed the landscape (which I do every 6 months) and I don't see much else out there worth owning (except for a 3G data card) over the BB.

If everything goes right, we should have 3G BBs soon (perhaps in about one year? - one can hope).

Aaron

[VidGameKing]

I own a 3G data card. A Sierra Wireless AriCard 860. I don't tether with my BB or any other device. the AirCard works great, but that involves my big clumsy laptop. The browser in the BB is sufficient to access the backend of any of my websites. But it's not just that. I use my BB with Google local maps are loaded wirelessly a faster connection = faster map loads. The same goes for browsing the web in general. Also there's that annoying lag with the IM programs like yahoo, and Google. A faster more seamless connection is what’s needed to upgrade a BB

If they made a BB with a full HSDPA/UMTS modem, a processor, fast enough to support it, and enough RAM (not NVRAM) to give the net some room to breathe, that would be upgrade enough. Bullock to the rest of it.

[Aroc]

I heard you on the maps thing. Now that the non-camera version of the 8800 (Indigo?) has GPS, using mapping software is only going to get more prevalent to business users (like us). Ditto on giving the devices more memory.

[VidGameKing]

I've found that web-based applications, or applications that keep 75% or more of their functionality on the web to be a serious killer app for the blackberry. Many other operating systems have software that’s available to install and store locally on the device, but with a BB you don't need to install any big fancy software, it's mostly available for you online! A faster data connection would enable faster application performance with apps like those.

Currently I use: Google Local, Yahoo Go, Internet Browser, and Yahoo Messenger. Also the e-mail thing, but that doesn't need any improvement. Other than that, all the applications I use would benefit from a faster data connection.

[djFreed]

Originally Posted by John Clark

I was a skeptic of the trackball at first but I would never go back to that thing they call a trackwheel. What's up with not being able to move sideways???

*cough* hold alt and scroll *cough* lol


kind of defeats the purpose of "one handed navigation" but i'm sure alot of people consistently have both hands on their device, unless of course their on the phone...



Freed

[VidGameKing]

Originally Posted by djFreed

*cough* hold alt and scroll *cough* lol


kind of defeats the purpose of "one handed navigation" but i'm sure alot of people consistently have both hands on their device, unless of course their on the phone...



Freed

Anyways, who goes sideways anyways? Using the zen theme everything is vertically scrolling!

[Aroc]

Originally Posted by VidGameKing

Anyways, who goes sideways anyways? Using the zen theme everything is vertically scrolling!

Wow, so using the Zen theme, you type all of your emails in the vertical position? Doesn't that waste a lot of screen real estate? I always thought Latin alphabets were designs for sideways operation (sarcasm mode=off).

I can use trackball on a pearl one handed. I think a trackball just makes more sense. On a 8700c or a 7290, I always have my thumb on the keyboard to use shortcut keys to navigate (since, thanks to Stinnsdog) it's crazy quick. Having a trackball near where my thumb already is, just makes more sense to me.

In fact, I've switched to one handed operation of the blackberry now using my left hand (and I'm right handed). Why? Well I can navigate shortcuts and type with my left thumb, but still be able to use my left middle finger to adjust the thumbwheel and my left ring finger to press ESC. I can scroll left/right by holding ALT with my left thumb and scroll the thumbwheel with my left middle finger - all using one hand. I can't do that with my right hand (at least not well enough to not drop the handheld). Having a trackball would just make more sense.

Now,I wouldn't be opposed to the device having both pointing devices (trackwheel and trackball) at the same time. It would just us choice and options. Just like I'd let the device have 3G access for you, but retain 2.5G access for me (better battery life for me, I imagine).

In fact, I can (quite dangerously I might add) use the blackberry with my left hand (left thumb on keyboard, left middle fingers and ring finger and trackwheel + ESC) while driving. Left hand on the blackberry, while the right hand steers. Then when I need to shift, I use the blackberry hand to held the wheel (sometimes while turning - I told you this was borderline stupid dangerous!) in place, my I shift the transmission with my right.

To be honest I only BB and drive about once a month. Since I know it's stupid dangerous and quite frankly my job is not life and death (meaning I not 1. a surgeon nor 2. actively working to cure cancer). So anything I really need to do can wait. I bought the BB for my convenience, not everyone else's.

PS: My apologies to Stinnsdog if I misspelled his name. (And i think I did).

[Aroc]

I totally agree. Part of the BlackBerry appear is that the device acts like a stateless device. All you really need are the proper service books for BES and/or BIS and you are off and running. Web apps just provide more of this near stateless operation.

I was playing with the web browser on the pearl (O/S 4.2.x) a couple days ago, and it wasn't too bad. I definitely can see where you'd want more speed (3G). Also the UI on the pearl felt a little sluggish compared to the 8700 (but was still much faster than the 7290). So I can see where more processor and memory would help.

[mortys11]

come on, a new product with the same old processor!

thats embarrassing....bit of a smoke show/cash grab.

i hope i dont cave to temptation and wait for wifi and cam model or even 9900 next year.

i expected more...faster processor, more ram, sd card, wifi, 2mp cam with video
new ui, media, full html browser/email better attachment viewing and on and on

[jetspeedz]

im also a bit dissapointed in the 8800, not just b/c of the lousy keyboard layout but other then the obvious gps, vad and trackball its a glorified 8700 with 4.2OS with basically the same processing and network speeds... im not upgrading till another version comes out...

The main reason im still using the BB and have been a long time Rim user is b/c of the stable OS compared to windows and other PDA's i've used in the past... to me BB is similar to Apple where its very easy to use and limits the user from getting into trouble by restricting a lot of the key OS files... unlike Windows and all the goodies you can do with it and break things... and Yes im a PC user and not a fan of Apple but in this instance BB is the way to go for me

[VidGameKing]

So the 8800 is out... I have been waiting, hoping and preying that the final specs would surprisingly be different than what we were all led to belive before the final release.

But aparently it's not. The 8800 is too much like the 8700 to ever be considered an upgrade from a 8700. If I was using my old 7290 right now, and wanted to upgrade from that I would buy the 8800, but since I've got the 8700 I don't feel the need per-se to upgrade.

It looks like I'm gonna wait 'till june to upgrade anyways because I want to wait and see what the iPhone will turn out to be. There's a lot of really cool features on the iPhone, and I already own a mac (amongst many other types of computers I own...)

And there's still the Cingualr (HTC) 8525 to consider. It's everything I want except a crappy OS, but at least it's a full version of Windows Mobile and not that hacked up pile of poo poo they call "Windows Mobile Smartphone" that they throw on the BlackJack or Moto Q!

Whatever... This market of smartphones really really really sucks right now!!!! Someone or some company needs to fix it, and they need to fix it fast because people are getting jaded, and it's happening right when many people are realising that smartphones are better than regualr cell phones. And if new customers play with smartphones enough they are going to become jaded with the market now too, and then the whole smartphone market will die, just like the PDA market boom of 2002-2003!!!

Dang!