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Old 11-19-2007, 08:39 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default O2 (UK) - 8120 - WiFi Questions....

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Hi,

Just purchased the above beauty... I have a few questions I hope someome can help with.

1) Browsing over WiFi works fine but I can't get Email to work over WiFi. It always uses EDGE. I've seen some refernences to changing:

Settings -> Mobile Network -> Preferred network connection

But I don't have that option.... and I haven't done the "move to new blackberry device" either.

2) There are some references on this forum to the Blackberry Enabler Software. That seems usefull. Where can I download that or do I need to do that through O2?

Thanks

DoubleDutch
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Old 11-19-2007, 09:17 AM   #2 (permalink)
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I believe the BlackBerry Feature Enabler is for T-Mobile subscribers.
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Old 11-20-2007, 10:55 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremyckitching View Post
I believe the BlackBerry Feature Enabler is for T-Mobile subscribers.

I have an 8120 on O2 and can confirm Email is using WiFi. Do a reconcile now and watch how fast the arrows flick in the top right, then turn of wifi and do it again and notice the speed difference. Even though it shows GPRS or EDGE in the corner, it does seem to be using Wifi
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Old 11-20-2007, 01:42 PM   #4 (permalink)
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I don't have any problems with this. I'm still running a beta 8120 but with release code and when connected to my WLAN it automatically uses Wi-Fi for everything.

The only thing I've noticed is a bug with the browser. My browser is set to use Wi-Fi by default and it automatically uses EDGE when I'm not on the WLAN. However, if you email me a URL and I click on it from within the email text (when not on the WLAN) it prompts me to enable Wi-Fi. This means I have to either change the default browser back to EDGE (at which point it works) or cut and paste the link manually in to the browser. Very odd and have reported it to RIM.
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Old 11-22-2007, 12:01 AM   #5 (permalink)
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I think the OP's confusion stems from how Blackberry handles WiFi. The GSM/EDGE indicator will only change to UMA if your mobile operator supports it. In the US, only T-Mobile supports UMA at this time. I am unfamiliar with O2, so don't know if they supports UMA. If they do not, even when you have WiFi available, you will still always see GSM/EDGE displayed in the status bar, as this is what voice and most non-BES/BIS data will use. My suspicion is you only get the 'WiFi Preferred' option when your mobile operator supports UMA, which would suggest that O2 does not since you said you could not find it.

The indicator you want to check is the "WiFi" logo next to the GSM/EDGE indicator. If it is in solid black and white, then your BES/BIS data (meaning E-mail, calendar sync, PIN-to-PIN communications, etc. -- anything that gets routed through the Blackberry server infrastructure) is going over WiFi. If the WiFi indicator is ghosted (e.g., slightly gray) or outright missing (because you turned off WiFi) then your BES/BIS data is going over the cellular network.

The Blackberry attempts to access the BES/BIS infrastructure in the following order of preference:

1) (Only applies for BES, not BIS.) If the Blackberry is connected via USB to a PC running BB Device Manager, and that PC has connectivity to your organization's BES Router (e.g., an office computer, or a laptop VPN'd into your office), then BB Device Manager will proxy a connection for the Blackberry to the BES Router on port 4101/TCP. (This applies to all Blackberries, even ones without WiFi. In this case, the WiFi indicator logo is meaningless, as the Blackberry is using the USB connection to the PC to route BES data.)
2) (Only applies for BES, not BIS.) If the Blackberry is connected to a WiFi network, and is able to directly open a connection to your organization's BES Router on 4101/TCP, it will talk directly to your BES router. Note that while this typically applies to WiFi networks operated within an organization's office, this can work also on external WiFi networks if your BES administrator has used IT Policy to push VPN connection properties down to your WiFi-enabled Blackberry.
3) (Applies to both BES and BIS.) If the Blackberry is connected to a WiFi network, and can open an SSL session on 443/TCP to a server farm hosted by RIM, it will use the SSL session for BES/BIS connectivity. (Typically rcp.us.blackberry.com, rcp.eu.blackberry.com, rcp.ap.blackberry.com, etc., depending on your major geographical region.)
4) (Applies to both BES and BIS.) If the Blackberry is connected to a WiFi network and has established a UMA session to your mobile operator (assuming yours supports UMA), it will route data to the Blackberry server farm via your mobile carrier's APN.
5) (Applies to both BES and BIS.) Fall back to the cellular network. (In which case, the WiFi indicator logo will be ghosted.)

Again, this applies to BES/BIS data. For other data, the use of WiFi varies. With the native browser, you can select which browser mode to use. "WiFi Browser" does direct connections from the Blackberry over WiFi. The other browser modes will only route web traffic over WiFi if you carrier supports UMA. For all other data (e.g., 3rd party apps, IM programs, etc.) the use of WiFi for data at this time again primarily relies on your mobile operator supporting UMA. The Blackberry API has been extended to allow apps to request a direct WiFi connection, but few third party apps have been updated to take advantage of the new APIs at this time.
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Old 11-22-2007, 12:28 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Wow! Excellent, knowledgeable write-up.

Very nice. Thank you!
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Old 11-22-2007, 02:24 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Very comprehensive but I can't say my experience has been identical.

Quote:
this can work also on external WiFi networks if your BES administrator has used IT Policy to push VPN connection properties down to your WiFi-enabled Blackberry.
I have not done this and can send and receive BES email fine on my home WLAN without any need for additional configuration either via a BES policy or device config. My BES servers are hosted at my office, not at RIM.

Quote:
For all other data (e.g., 3rd party apps, IM programs, etc.) the use of WiFi for data at this time again primarily relies on your mobile operator supporting UMA.
Every app I've tested so far (including third party spell checks and Google maps) work automatically over Wi-Fi if I disable the cellular connection, which has surprised me.
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Old 11-22-2007, 08:18 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BBAdmin View Post
Very comprehensive but I can't say my experience has been identical.



I have not done this and can send and receive BES email fine on my home WLAN without any need for additional configuration either via a BES policy or device config. My BES servers are hosted at my office, not at RIM.
In this case I expect you will then be using method 3. My experience is the same, I can send and receive when at home with no VPN, but looking at the router logs, I'm talking to the RIM infrastructure on port 443. When in the office, I talk directly to the BES.
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Old 11-22-2007, 12:53 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BBAdmin View Post
Very comprehensive but I can't say my experience has been identical.
My write-up is a summary based on RIM's official documentation in the WiFi implementation guide (I forget what the exact name of the document is). And to the degree that I've been able to test the individual options, I have. The only option I can't test myself is option 2 VPNing in, since our environment isn't conducive to that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BBAdmin View Post
I have not done this and can send and receive BES email fine on my home WLAN without any need for additional configuration either via a BES policy or device config. My BES servers are hosted at my office, not at RIM.
As has already been suggested, I suspect your Blackberry is selecting option 3 in this case. You can verify this in a couple of manners. One, as mentioned above, is to check your border router's NAT translation table and look to see if there is a session on 443/TCP going to RIM. However, from the Blackberry itself, you can also check this. Manage Connections->WiFi Options->WiFi Diagnostics. (And make sure advanced diagnostics are enabled.) Towards the bottom you will see a section for "Blackberry infrastructure". If this block of information shows you are connected, then you are using option 3. If, instead, the following block labeled "Enterprise" shows you are connected, then you are using option 2.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BBAdmin View Post
Every app I've tested so far (including third party spell checks and Google maps) work automatically over Wi-Fi if I disable the cellular connection, which has surprised me.
Not sure what to say here, as I have T-Mobile with UMA, so all my APN connections get tunneled via UMA when WiFi is up. I would look to the threads discussing what does and does not work over WiFi when you do not have a data plan, as those will provide a better picture of which apps understand how to natively connect.

Also, I see you are running 4.3 on an 8120. RIM may have changed the way things work in 4.3 for data connections. They may be allowing data connections via their infrastructure when APN connections are not available. But that is pure speculation on my part; I don't have access to a 4.3-based device.

Cheers

Last edited by cwichura : 11-22-2007 at 12:57 PM.
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Old 11-29-2007, 03:42 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Default Can't connect either

I also cant get the blackberry over WiFi, i can get WiFi OK and if i choose the WiFi browser can surf a lot quicker but all blackberry apps use the cellular network.
The Manage Connections page shows a yellow stop sign for WiFi.
My WiFi diagnostics show a red cross for connecting under the blackberry infrastructure and theres nothing following IP Used or Address Used.
I know it's not my network as i have a public IP with no firewall or NAT.
There is an entry in the HRT for WiFi which goes to rcp.eu.blackberry.com:443 and another with just the IP.
I've tried some tests:
Using Carrier:
HTTP = 500 error
HTTPS = No connection
Using WiFI
HTTP = No connection
HTTPS = No connection
Whats also interesting is that if you try and connect to HTTPS using the ip for rcp.eu.blackberry.com then you get a certificate error which i would expect but it shows it can connect.
I also noticed that under security and TLS, it was defaulted to PROXY and there are no Trusted hosts, changing to HANDHELD shows no certificates.
Software is 4.3.0.67 (Which I totally love over 4.2!!!)
Could someone that has this working on O2 UK do a comparison?
Cheers!
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Old 11-29-2007, 11:22 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tailor View Post
I also cant get the blackberry over WiFi, i can get WiFi OK and if i choose the WiFi browser can surf a lot quicker but all blackberry apps use the cellular network.
The Manage Connections page shows a yellow stop sign for WiFi.
My WiFi diagnostics show a red cross for connecting under the blackberry infrastructure and theres nothing following IP Used or Address Used.
I know it's not my network as i have a public IP with no firewall or NAT.
There is an entry in the HRT for WiFi which goes to rcp.eu.blackberry.com:443 and another with just the IP.
I've tried some tests:
Using Carrier:
HTTP = 500 error
HTTPS = No connection
Using WiFI
HTTP = No connection
HTTPS = No connection
Whats also interesting is that if you try and connect to HTTPS using the ip for rcp.eu.blackberry.com then you get a certificate error which i would expect but it shows it can connect.
I also noticed that under security and TLS, it was defaulted to PROXY and there are no Trusted hosts, changing to HANDHELD shows no certificates.
Software is 4.3.0.67 (Which I totally love over 4.2!!!)
Could someone that has this working on O2 UK do a comparison?
Cheers!

Can you perform a wifi diagnostics and report back.

Here is mine
Attached Thumbnails
O2 (UK) - 8120 - WiFi Questions....-scr1.gif  O2 (UK) - 8120 - WiFi Questions....-scr2.gif  
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Old 11-29-2007, 12:28 PM   #12 (permalink)
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And just to prove that BES and BIS use WiFi....
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O2 (UK) - 8120 - WiFi Questions....-servicestatus.gif  
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Old 11-30-2007, 04:35 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Well theres hope there!
Same handset, same network, same version.
I can only assume your BES has given your device something more than mine.
Here are my displays....
Attached Thumbnails
O2 (UK) - 8120 - WiFi Questions....-screen1.jpg  O2 (UK) - 8120 - WiFi Questions....-screen2.jpg  O2 (UK) - 8120 - WiFi Questions....-screen3.jpg  
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Old 11-30-2007, 06:13 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tailor View Post
Well theres hope there!
Same handset, same network, same version.
I can only assume your BES has given your device something more than mine.
Here are my displays....

Well this is interesting. From your Screenshots, it appears that your Wireless Network is giving out Public IP Addresses 83.146.X.X

To be able to talk to the Blackberry Infrastructure, it needs to be able to establish a connection over SSL Port 443. From what I can see, this doesn't appear to be happening.

It's nothing to do with my BES, there appears to be something not right with your Wireless Configuration, but not being able to see all of it, I can't quite say. It may be your Router..... Do you need to use proxy servers for instance to surf etc.

Edited to say, oops I took those screenshots after upgrading to 4.3.0.72

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Old 11-30-2007, 07:15 AM   #15 (permalink)
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The wireless is fine, i have it on a circuit i use for testing stuff like this, it has a public IP range so i can elimate any NAT or firewall issues.
i can access the internet fine using the WiFi browser, if i try and browse to https://193.109.81.88 which in theory is exactly what it is trying to do by making a SSL connection to rcp.eu.blackberry.com, then i get a certificate error (because the certificate is for rcp.eu.blackberry.com). This must show it is connection fine. If i browse to https://rcp.eu.blackberry.com then i get no certificate error. (presumably showing that the certificate is trusted)
My device came with 4.3.0.72 so it's interesting that you upgraded to it.
How does your host routing table entry for WiFi compare to mine?
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Old 11-30-2007, 08:13 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tailor View Post
The wireless is fine, i have it on a circuit i use for testing stuff like this, it has a public IP range so i can elimate any NAT or firewall issues.
i can access the internet fine using the WiFi browser, if i try and browse to https://193.109.81.88 which in theory is exactly what it is trying to do by making a SSL connection to rcp.eu.blackberry.com, then i get a certificate error (because the certificate is for rcp.eu.blackberry.com). This must show it is connection fine. If i browse to https://rcp.eu.blackberry.com then i get no certificate error. (presumably showing that the certificate is trusted)
My device came with 4.3.0.72 so it's interesting that you upgraded to it.
How does your host routing table entry for WiFi compare to mine?
You say your device came with 4.3.0.72 yet your sig says 4.3.0.67. Mine came with 4.3.0.67 and I upgraded to 4.3.0.72 yesterday.

My Host routing table for WiFi is exactly the same as yours.

In the WiFi Diagnostics. The fact that you have a Black Dot against the Blackberry Infrastructure Connection suggests that it hasn't connected.
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Old 11-30-2007, 08:45 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Doh!
i'll try updating to that, never know!
I assume you downloaded the Bharti Airtel version?
As another test, i'm now tracing all the traffic coming out of the blackberry on the WiFi and there's nothing, i see it if i use WiFI browser but rebooting the handset and connecting to the WiFi doesn't show a thing!
Must be some config error.
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Old 11-30-2007, 09:07 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tailor View Post
Doh!
i'll try updating to that, never know!
I assume you downloaded the Bharti Airtel version?
As another test, i'm now tracing all the traffic coming out of the blackberry on the WiFi and there's nothing, i see it if i use WiFI browser but rebooting the handset and connecting to the WiFi doesn't show a thing!
Must be some config error.

Just so you know, my WiFi worked on 4.3.0.67
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Old 11-30-2007, 11:09 AM   #19 (permalink)
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well i updated it and tried it in default, no different!
Don't suppose you fancy trying it in default before you're joined to BES
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Old 11-30-2007, 11:20 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Sorry, That's a lot to ask!
on another train of thought though, have you anything in your APN settings under Options->Advanced->TCP ?
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