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Old 01-14-2010, 11:33 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Have Data Plan But Can't Get E-Mail Thru Wifi

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why is that? & is that true?

I am travelling & thought that by taking my BB (Bold) with me I could avoid the astronomical charges through my data plan by logging onto the free wifi at the homes I am staying in along the way.

Apparently not so. Although I am connected to the wifi (in this case an Airport) and it very clearly says that the wifi is connected, when I download emails (or they are pushed to me), I am being charged by my network provider (vodafone back in the UK) for that data package(s).

Having spent over an hour on the phone to vodafone they ended by saying: nope, no way of using alternative wifi networks to browse or use email on your blackberry.

I have spent the last hour searching these forums (there are some fab & helpful people on here!), as that was what the vodafone guy was doing. But cannot find an answer - lots of talk about UMA(!?), and very technical stuff - but nothing that seems to help solve what seems to me to be a very basic requirement: I am happy to pay data and mobile charges to my network provider while roaming and travelling; but when I am in the safety of a wifi network (just like my mac if I sit in a coffee shop), I want to use that to download my email and browse the internet instead.

Is that so unreasonable?! Can anyone confirm or deny this for me please?!?!

Please help...
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Old 01-14-2010, 11:54 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Wirelessly posted (White and Nerdy)

Turn off your mobile network and enable wifi. Itl have no choice but to use it.

Btw, UMA is talk over wifi. Very common on tmo berries in the US
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Old 01-14-2010, 12:37 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Does Vodafone support UMA? If not, I don't think there's a way for the BB data to come over the wifi. For example, can AT&T folks get their BB data over wifi?
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Old 01-14-2010, 02:59 PM   #4 (permalink)
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I get my Blackberry data by Wi-Fi all the time.

k8simpson: Is your Wi-Fi logo white or grey. If it is grey your BB hasn't connected to the RIM servers by the Wi-Fi connection. Check Wi-Fi diagnostics may tell you why. Many open Wi-Fi services are restrictive in what ports they will allow out. The airport service may be blocking.
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Old 01-14-2010, 05:08 PM   #5 (permalink)
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hrbuckley - thank you! so it *is* possible to do it. just not every wifi spot. good to know thx.
had never noticed the colour of the wifi logo before - it is grey.

wi-fi diagnostics is just a whole page of labels and messages that i don't understand (and that's even before i view the Advanced list)
not knowing what a 'proper' wifi connection looks like it's difficult to know what message it's giving:
in wi-fi all the fields are filled in (Security Type, Local IP Address, Signal Level, etc, and the Status says "Network Acquired")
in VPN all the fields are blank and it says VPN profile not found
in Blackberry Infrastructure the 'connecting' radio button has a red cross through it and the Authenticating router/server radio buttons are blank.

i dunno - is there anything with flashing lights that i should be looking for here?? I emailed myself the diagnostic report but it's not like it says: "Hey, you need to do [x] and all will be well in your life" (sadly).

Thanks dankarlinski - the vodafone guy suggested pulling out the SIM card altogether to force it to use the wifi but i can get nada with the mobile connections turned off. i guess it might work if, as above, the wifi logo was "white" instead though??

any suggestions out there please?!
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Old 01-14-2010, 06:49 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Sounds like your BB can't connect to RIM. What I see is:
Blackberry Infrastructure
Address Used: //204.187.87.88:443
IP Used: 204.187.87.88:443;60468
Connecting: <green check>
Authenticating router: <green check>
Authenticating server: <green check>

There is also a DNS Lookup tool (if you have a domain name you can try to see if the domain lookup is working), and a Ping tool which can use either a domain name or an IP address. If you can ping the Infrastructure server then the hotspot may be blocking, but more likely proxying port 443, and that may be the problem.

In the Diagnostics in the Wi-Fi section make sure you have a gateway address and a DNS address. If you don't have those there is something wrong with the router or BB configuration.
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Old 01-15-2010, 03:45 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hrbuckley View Post
I get my Blackberry data by Wi-Fi all the time.

k8simpson: Is your Wi-Fi logo white or grey. If it is grey your BB hasn't connected to the RIM servers by the Wi-Fi connection. Check Wi-Fi diagnostics may tell you why. Many open Wi-Fi services are restrictive in what ports they will allow out. The airport service may be blocking.
Rogers supports UMA.
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Old 01-15-2010, 10:50 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeypaw View Post
Rogers supports UMA.
Got BIS/BES data by Wi-Fi when they didn't, my device (Bold 9000) doesn't support UMA. UMA is (as has been mentioned) for voice over Wi-Fi. BIS/BES data over Wi-Fi is implemented by RIM and carrier agnostic.
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Last edited by hrbuckley : 01-15-2010 at 10:52 AM.
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Old 01-15-2010, 11:51 AM   #9 (permalink)
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ah-ha. things are beginning to make a little more sense to me now. thanks to this forum!

the only thing in this (once connected to the Airport):
Sounds like your BB can't connect to RIM. What I see is:
Blackberry Infrastructure
Address Used: //204.187.87.88:443
IP Used: 204.187.87.88:443;60468
Connecting: <green check>
Authenticating router: <green check>
Authenticating server: <green check>

that is filled in is the 'address used' which when i first turned data services on had an IP address (that i didn't quite get down in time), but then when i looked at diagnostics again, it now says the rcp.eu.blackberry... address. connecting had a yellow straight line through it when the ip address was numbers, but now it has a red cross. very odd.

i have been looking at other forum pleas of a similar nature and have unticked the Auto IP checkbox and entered the Airport's ip address and DNS server. However, i can't seem to find where you can add/edit the Blackberry Infrastructure details? Is there a way?
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Old 01-15-2010, 12:49 PM   #10 (permalink)
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No you can't (not that I've ever found) enter the infrastructure data. Your blackberry gets that data through some undocumented means. You seem to be getting closer though, sounds like your blackberry isn't getting the DNS configuration set up properly. Get that sorted and you may be fixed.
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Old 01-15-2010, 03:41 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hrbuckley View Post
Got BIS/BES data by Wi-Fi when they didn't, my device (Bold 9000) doesn't support UMA. UMA is (as has been mentioned) for voice over Wi-Fi. BIS/BES data over Wi-Fi is implemented by RIM and carrier agnostic.
Whether or not the phone supports UMA, Rogers has the back end equipment to connect a BB over wifi to the BB servers. And they have the service books.

If this is possible then it would be good to know as AT&T users, for example, would be able to travel overseas without necessarily adding the international data plan. But I've only ever seen AT&T users getting internet over wifi, not BB data.
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Old 01-15-2010, 07:59 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeypaw View Post
Whether or not the phone supports UMA, Rogers has the back end equipment to connect a BB over wifi to the BB servers. And they have the service books.

If this is possible then it would be good to know as AT&T users, for example, would be able to travel overseas without necessarily adding the international data plan. But I've only ever seen AT&T users getting internet over wifi, not BB data.
AT&T is well known for overwriting service books with their own, blocking BB Maps for example. I suspect that is the issue, not the availability of UMA support. Have a look at this video: Media Library the relevent part starts at 4:10. You can see from the graphics that Wi-Fi TCP does not involve carrier infrastructure at all. BIS/BES data is carrierd using TCP/IP from the Blackberry via the access point, Internet to the RIM Operation Centre.
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Old 01-15-2010, 08:05 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeypaw View Post
Whether or not the phone supports UMA, Rogers has the back end equipment to connect a BB over wifi to the BB servers. And they have the service books.

If this is possible then it would be good to know as AT&T users, for example, would be able to travel overseas without necessarily adding the international data plan. But I've only ever seen AT&T users getting internet over wifi, not BB data.
AT&T is well known for overwriting service books with their own, blocking BB Maps for example. I suspect that is the issue, not the availability of UMA support. Have a look at this video: Media Library the relevent part starts at 4:10 but in particular at 4:50 and 6:50. You can see from the graphics and description that Wi-Fi TCP does not involve carrier infrastructure at all. BIS/BES data is carrierd using TCP/IP from the Blackberry via the access point, Internet to the RIM Operation Centre.
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Old 01-15-2010, 08:57 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Well, if the below answer is correct, then in fact AT&T and presumably other carrier's users can get BB data over wifi. Not sure if that means anything for a Vodafone user, but if true, it is a fantastic alternative to an international data plan for some people.

Can an AT&T user get BB data over wifi?
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Old 01-18-2010, 03:22 PM   #15 (permalink)
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I don't know whether this is relevant but it seems that I can login to secured wifi networks but not open ones. The airport here is unsecured (ie. without a password), as well as the coffee shop I've been using. However, I was in toronto over the weekend and i managed to connect and get the white wifi logo on a secured router. I think it's not the WEP version of secured (ie. where it asks you for a key that *isn't* the same as the password to the router - i've never been able to connect to these as it doesn't ever accept the key?? grrr.), I think it must have been a PSK one?

Haven't been able to figure out how to connect here - frustrating but am now bored with trying to. Thanks for all your help out there though!
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Old 01-18-2010, 05:59 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k8simpson View Post
I don't know whether this is relevant but it seems that I can login to secured wifi networks but not open ones. The airport here is unsecured (ie. without a password), as well as the coffee shop I've been using. However, I was in toronto over the weekend and i managed to connect and get the white wifi logo on a secured router. I think it's not the WEP version of secured (ie. where it asks you for a key that *isn't* the same as the password to the router - i've never been able to connect to these as it doesn't ever accept the key?? grrr.), I think it must have been a PSK one?

Haven't been able to figure out how to connect here - frustrating but am now bored with trying to. Thanks for all your help out there though!
If that's the case, maybe you're actually dealing with networks that have a login or popup screen of some sort. So even if "open" what might happen is some screen coming up saying you can't sue us if you use this network, click here to acknowledge. Something like that.

If that's the case, try pulling up google or some other website and that sometimes triggers the login website. Google seems to work best for me.

Someone posted this ip before for some networks. Can't remember if it's ever worked for me, but here it is http://1.1.1.1/login
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Old 01-18-2010, 07:38 PM   #17 (permalink)
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There should also be a Wi-Fi Services -> Wi-Fi Hotspot Login bookmark in the browser which is supposed to take care of that, but YMMV.
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Old 01-18-2010, 08:26 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hrbuckley View Post
There should also be a Wi-Fi Services -> Wi-Fi Hotspot Login bookmark in the browser which is supposed to take care of that, but YMMV.
I always forget about that one. Probably easier than fiddling around with different sites as I do. Usually the same site doesn't trigger it twice for some reason. I've even bookmarked some actual login screens and they don't work most times.

If you look at that bookmark it's the link below. Not sure what it's doing to trigger the login.

BlackBerry | Now Connected
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Old 01-19-2010, 08:31 AM   #19 (permalink)
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I think it is the equivalent of going to any website that triggers the transparent proxy (if you need to log in) and if the login is/was successful it shows you a success page.
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