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Old 09-22-2007, 12:23 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Got my 8820, waiting for unlock code - wifi question

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I bought an Orange 8820 on eBay and have purchased a SIM unlock code, which I am waiting for in order to connect to my carrier (Digicel Bermuda). Digicel is being very nice about the whole thing and has allowed me to work with their network team to test the 8820 using their SIM. What a difference they are from the typical faceless carrier!

In the meantime, is it possible to connect the 8820 to my BES using WiFi only? I can activate over USB but the wifi indicator stays "grey" and only allows browser access to the Internet.

On a related note, does anyone know how the Wifi access actually works? Does it connect to RIM's server (like the BES does) or to a server at the carrier?
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Old 09-22-2007, 01:57 PM   #2 (permalink)
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It looks like WiFi can ONLY be used for browsing in the BB Browser. Everything else defaults to Edge/GPRS.
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Old 09-22-2007, 01:58 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Not on my 8320. With UMA all my calls go out via the WiFi connection. My BES e-mail comes in via WiFi, as does Internet Browsing.
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Old 09-22-2007, 02:01 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJBlackBerry View Post
Not on my 8320. With UMA all my calls go out via the WiFi connection. My BES e-mail comes in via WiFi, as does Internet Browsing.
Hmmm maybe I should return the 8820 and go to T-mobile.
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Old 09-22-2007, 02:17 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I can confirm that on the 8820, you can both email and PIN via wifi, once you have a service book for the carrier loaded. However, without a SIM, there doesn't seem to be a way to get the service book onto the blackberry.

Messaging isn't UMA as far as I know. UMA is only voice.
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Old 09-22-2007, 02:19 PM   #6 (permalink)
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So you can receive email through WiFi without subscribing to BIS or BES? Can you please explain how this is accomplished.
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Old 09-22-2007, 02:21 PM   #7 (permalink)
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No, you can't. You need to be registered on the GPRS network to get the service book, which requires a SIM - so far as I can tell (hence my question!).
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Old 09-22-2007, 02:31 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I have downloaded the gmail program. However, I am unsure if it is pulling data through EDGE or WiFi. There is no way to tell from what I can see.
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Old 09-22-2007, 03:49 PM   #9 (permalink)
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GMail requires an EDGE connection to poll the Google servers.

Not sure how the email is pushed through WiFi, but I do concur, I do get email through the WiFi. I am subscribed to a BES using TMo. There are 2 service books on the 8820. Wi-Fi TCP/IP Browser and Wi-Fi TCP/IP Transport. I suspect the last service book is the enabler for this to function.
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Old 09-22-2007, 04:45 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Without registering with the GSM network, I have "Wi-Fi TCP/IP Transport [WPTCP]" in my service book. I also have my BES' entries as well, since I activated over USB with my BES. I can send and receive emails when connected via USB, like any other blackberry. Yet the "wi-fi" logo remains slighly grey - the wifi equivalent of lower-case "gprs" - so I am not connected into the blackberry service when I'm on wifi, just internet access.

What I'm wondering is, what am I missing to make it connect to my BES? As a parallel, the 7270 doesn't have any kind of SIM - only wifi - so that can't be what's missing. (although the 7270 might not be the best example because, according to RIM, it can't send PINs so it might be more like the blackberry connect version of the service)

Obviously all this will be sorted once I get my unlocking done, but in the mean time I think it is an interesting technical question: how exactly does the wifi connect to RIM?
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Old 09-22-2007, 04:55 PM   #11 (permalink)
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As we are getting our first batch of 8820s and 8320s for our users, this very question has already arisen. We are not sure whether it is some type of VPN/encryption tunnel back to the RIM infrastructure or back to our BES infrastructure...or for that fact a VPN We are asking both TMo and ATT to explain this so that we can insure we have it managed securely.
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Old 09-22-2007, 06:30 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Let's think about this. There are three possible places that the device is connecting to, over the Internet.

1. RIM. Possible and likely. RIM runs the Blackberry service that the BES connects to, so why not also allow handhelds? PINs connect directly to RIM so that seems likely. The APNs that RIM sets up with carriers create a direct channel for such connections to RIM's servers so this the wifi access probably creates a VPN to mimic the same kind of service.
2. The carrier. Unlikely, but they do run UMA services so maybe they run some unknown BES-like service too.
3. BES. Possible but again unlikely as it would make management harder for RIM. Not to mention that the PIN handling would be hard because PINs don't use the BES.

My suspicion is that, without a service book entry, the device is disallowed from accessing anything. With that service book entry, the device can access RIM's servers in order to send PIN messages.

The next question is, what kind of service book entry would be required to do this?
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Old 09-22-2007, 06:52 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Suspicions are it is option #1 above. It only makes sense to have the Service Book (perhaps the WiFi TCPIP Transport) use an IP address that is routable across the Internet (using WiFi) to reach back to RIM. Once it reaches back to RIM, the current infrastructure being used remains unchanged. Will confirm with ATT/TMo Monday.
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Old 09-23-2007, 03:39 AM   #14 (permalink)
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I agree, #1 sounds most reasonable. Looking at the wi-fi tcp/ip transport service book entry in my 8820, I'm not sure it is valid. It has the following values:

User ID:-1
DSD:
Gateway IP: <No Gateway>
Description: Device HTTP

What service book entries does your 8820 have?
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Old 09-23-2007, 11:11 AM   #15 (permalink)
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My Service Book did show the same as yours..when it is not on a WiFi Network. When I am on a WiFi, I have the following information:

Record Type: Active
Name: Wi-Fi TCP/IP Transport
UID: S TCP-WiFi
CID: WTCP

User ID: -1
DSID:

Gateway IP: //10.120.203:19781;19780|GPAK
Description: Device HTTP


When connected to an active WiFi, the record goes from 'Inactive' to 'Active'. I believe the Gateway IP changes from <No Gateway> to an active Address; albeit, the one I listed does not look like a standard IPV4 address. Hmmm..
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Old 09-23-2007, 12:20 PM   #16 (permalink)
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That IP looks like part of a IPv4 address with two ports after it, which is interesting. Perhaps that address is inside a carrier network?

I think the GPAK part is a blackberry data protocol type.

It seems the reason I'm not contacting a server is due to the lack of this service book entry being reconfigured, as is occurring in your case. I guess that's why the wi-fi logo is semi-transparent rather than solid.
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Old 10-03-2007, 04:36 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Default BES access w/o carrier WiFi support

So the current conslusion is that No WiFi support from your carrier = No BES access through WiFi ?
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Old 10-04-2007, 07:52 AM   #18 (permalink)
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I can confirm that, regardless of the carrier's support of wifi, the blackberry works. I have tried it on two carriers and both work perfectly.

The reason that this is so is that the Blackberry connects directly to RIM over the Internet - just like the BES. The carrier has no control of this.

However, without a valid SIM installed, I can't seem to make it connect to RIM. This arbitrary restriction must be there to prevent users from not buying a contract. Anyone have any insight into this?
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