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Old 10-08-2007, 11:44 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Multiple wireless AP's?

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Has anyone has any luck setting up the Curve with multiple wireless Access points? I have 2 wireless routers (1 routing, 1 access point), both with the same SSID and PW operating on different channels. Should the curve hop between them normally? When I look at the wifi diagnostics, it seems to only want to use one of them (the one I originally paired it with).


Any insight?

Thanks,

Matt
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Old 10-08-2007, 11:58 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Did you enable "Allow inter-acess point handover" on your 8320?

It should hop between them. Mine is working fine in much the same way as yours is setup. The main difference is that I have a westell router and have both access points set to AP mode. I have a static IP assisgned but it might work dhcp, I didn't try it.
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Old 10-08-2007, 12:05 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phjnky View Post
Did you enable "Allow inter-acess point handover" on your 8320?

It should hop between them. Mine is working fine in much the same way as yours is setup. The main difference is that I have a westell router and have both access points set to AP mode. I have a static IP assisgned but it might work dhcp, I didn't try it.
I had not done that yet, thank you. Do I need to config my BB on a static IP to use this feature? There was some discussion of this on another thread.


Thanks!

/m/
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Old 10-08-2007, 12:21 PM   #4 (permalink)
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I tried it dhcp and it acts different. It doesn't appear to switch seamlessly between APs' now. It switches to EDGE, waits a bit, and goes back to UMA on whichever AP is closer.
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Old 10-08-2007, 12:28 PM   #5 (permalink)
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So I guess Static IP is the way to do then?

/m/
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Old 10-08-2007, 12:43 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattyx View Post
So I guess Static IP is the way to do then?

/m/
I think so. I just went back to static IP and everything is working normally again. It might work dhcp but I'm not having much luck with it.
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Old 10-08-2007, 01:28 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phjnky View Post
I think so. I just went back to static IP and everything is working normally again. It might work dhcp but I'm not having much luck with it.
Sounds good. Thanks!!!


/m/
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Old 10-08-2007, 01:33 PM   #8 (permalink)
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What's wrong with static IP? You can set the IP just for that particular connection and it will still use dhcp for other connections.
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Old 10-08-2007, 02:18 PM   #9 (permalink)
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What's wrong with static IP? You can set the IP just for that particular connection and it will still use dhcp for other connections.
Nothing! Just wondering if it needs to be configured that way to work properly.


/m/
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Old 10-08-2007, 02:31 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattyx View Post
Nothing! Just wondering if it needs to be configured that way to work properly.
Are both wireless using the same subnet? What about the DHCP server - do both of them act as the lease server, or does one pass off (reflect) the traffic over to the other?
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Old 10-08-2007, 02:33 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattyx View Post
HI have 2 wireless routers (1 routing, 1 access point), both with the same SSID and PW operating on different channels.
Infrastructure question -- any reason you're not using WDS, and are using 2 channels instead? (curious as to why you have to do what you're doing, that's all)
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Old 10-08-2007, 02:40 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rivviepop View Post
Infrastructure question -- any reason you're not using WDS, and are using 2 channels instead? (curious as to why you have to do what you're doing, that's all)
Both on the same subnet, only 1 acting as a DHCP server.

I didnt set up WDS because the secondary router is wired to the 1st. I also dont think WDS is supported on my d-link. I am under the impression that WDS is for wireless repeating, rather than a wired secondary router.

Thanks!

/m/
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Old 10-08-2007, 02:56 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattyx View Post
Both on the same subnet, only 1 acting as a DHCP server.

I didnt set up WDS because the secondary router is wired to the 1st. I also dont think WDS is supported on my d-link. I am under the impression that WDS is for wireless repeating, rather than a wired secondary router.
Gotcha on the wired - I had assumed that the AP was wifi to the router, not wired. Are these devices geographically far apart that you're basically providing coverage in two spaces (like upstairs and downstairs at home) that are too far apart for WDS?

WDS is used to provide a large coverage area by multiple access points where one device can't provide adequate coverage; it's a step above wireless repeating but is similar (but better IMHO). I have work covered with a handful of WRT54GL's running DD-WRT in WDS mode, one in each conference room, two in the main parts, etc. - this allows me to have one SSID, one channel, one means of access control and so forth. I can also then adjust each WDS child node's power (DD-WRT feature) for that space - like in the conference rooms I keep it at pretty much the default, but then the main open areas I boost the juice a little bit since there are no walls/etc. to interfere. Each child note reflects all smart requests (DHCP, DNS, etc.) up to the parent node, and it's only the parent node wired into the corporate network (outside the firewall for more security).

So I'm just asking what needs you've faced that require different channels with the same SSID versus using a WDS setup (let's ignore D-Link's capabilities, just speaking from the design standpoint). Once I can better understand your design then I might get a brilliant brain fart why your DHCP handoffs are squirrely.

("brain fart" is a technical term, be careful using it around nerds if you've not had the proper training)
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Old 10-08-2007, 03:22 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rivviepop View Post
Gotcha on the wired - I had assumed that the AP was wifi to the router, not wired. Are these devices geographically far apart that you're basically providing coverage in two spaces (like upstairs and downstairs at home) that are too far apart for WDS?

WDS is used to provide a large coverage area by multiple access points where one device can't provide adequate coverage; it's a step above wireless repeating but is similar (but better IMHO). I have work covered with a handful of WRT54GL's running DD-WRT in WDS mode, one in each conference room, two in the main parts, etc. - this allows me to have one SSID, one channel, one means of access control and so forth. I can also then adjust each WDS child node's power (DD-WRT feature) for that space - like in the conference rooms I keep it at pretty much the default, but then the main open areas I boost the juice a little bit since there are no walls/etc. to interfere. Each child note reflects all smart requests (DHCP, DNS, etc.) up to the parent node, and it's only the parent node wired into the corporate network (outside the firewall for more security).

So I'm just asking what needs you've faced that require different channels with the same SSID versus using a WDS setup (let's ignore D-Link's capabilities, just speaking from the design standpoint). Once I can better understand your design then I might get a brilliant brain fart why your DHCP handoffs are squirrely.

("brain fart" is a technical term, be careful using it around nerds if you've not had the proper training)

I understand your propensity for using WDS, but I dont like the fact that it halves your LAN throughput for communication between the nodes (LAN). I set up the routers in this configuration so that I would have the most coverage with the most bandwidth.

As for my setup, its one in the front of the house and one in the rear for coverage purposes. The front router is a buffalo running tomato, and the rear access point is a d link. They are both using WPA and share the same SSID, one on chan 1 and the other on 11.

/m/
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Old 10-08-2007, 03:52 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattyx View Post
As for my setup, its one in the front of the house and one in the rear for coverage purposes. The front router is a buffalo running tomato, and the rear access point is a d link. They are both using WPA and share the same SSID, one on chan 1 and the other on 11.
Hmmm, I'm feeling like a MAC issue here might be at stake -- is there any chance you can get a look at the dhpcd.leases file (or through he webUI, whatever) from your Buffalo/tomato router after it's been offered out to the device?

The lease will contain a MAC of the client -- what I'm wondering is, is your AP that's doing the subnet relay inserting it's own MAC in the request instead of the device MAC? This would seem like a cause which would result in the problems you're having...

EDIT: I found this great PDF that you might read:
An Empirical Analysis of the IEEE 802.11 MAC Layer Handoff Process
http://www.cs.umd.edu/~waa/pubs/handoff-lat-acm.pdf
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Last edited by rivviepop : 10-08-2007 at 04:05 PM. Reason: adding pdf
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Old 10-08-2007, 05:28 PM   #16 (permalink)
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I changed my setup to WDS since I was curious how well it works. It seems to handoff fine and everything appears to work great.

I haven't played around with WDS since I never had a need so this was pretty cool getting this working. My Cisco IP phone works well over the wireless link as well.

I put together a quick diagram.

I think I'll leave it for a while and see how well it works.
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Old 10-08-2007, 05:41 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Hi. I am also trying to setup 2 router/AP's. My Linksys WRT54G is connected to the cable modem and I have an ethernet cable connecting that to a Netgear WPN824. Both are setup with same SSID and encryption and are also on the same channel. Rivviepop - you mentioned that the 2 routers do not need to be wired, how would I set that up? Also, in my netgear setup there are multiple options within the bridge/router mode. should this be as a router or bridge? default settings in the bridge mode disable the internet from working on the pc wired to the netgear. Any help is much appreciated. thanks in advance.

Last edited by kingsfan3344 : 10-08-2007 at 05:50 PM.
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Old 10-08-2007, 06:23 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phjnky View Post
I changed my setup to WDS since I was curious how well it works. It seems to handoff fine and everything appears to work great.
I see from your diagram you're on channel 1, cool - stick to the three non-overlapping wifi channels (1,6.11) if you have to change it in the future, I've read posts here and there that some people's WDS acts funky on the other channels which have overlap. Take it with a grain of salt, random internet posts.
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Old 10-08-2007, 06:30 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by kingsfan3344 View Post
Hi. I am also trying to setup 2 router/AP's. My Linksys WRT54G is connected to the cable modem and I have an ethernet cable connecting that to a Netgear WPN824. Both are setup with same SSID and encryption and are also on the same channel.
If your setup is not WDS you need to choose different channels for each device - put one on 1, one on 11 or something. Only in a WDS can you have the same SSID + same channel. (well a mesh too, but not on topic here)

Quote:
you mentioned that the 2 routers do not need to be wired, how would I set that up?
This is the function of the firmware - many cheap routers do not have WDS capability, and additionally many are not cross-brand friendly - like, a stock Buffalo router WDS hates working with a Linksys DD-WRT WDS, but if you run the DD-WRT firmware on the Buffalo and use the same WDS firmware/code it all works well. Look in your webUI/admin login screens for WDS setup to see what capabilities you have on each one.

Quote:
Also, in my netgear setup there are multiple options within the bridge/router mode. should this be as a router or bridge? default settings in the bridge mode disable the internet from working on the pc wired to the netgear. Any help is much appreciated. thanks in advance.
Depends on the type of network you're trying to create! Both are valid but result in different kinds of networks. Hit up Wikipedia & Google to understand the difference between the two modes of operation. Typically in a WDS the slave nodes are bridges (well not even that, semi-bridges) and the master is the only router. By definition I *think* WDS has to be on one subnet, having a slave node as a router I think is not supported (could be wrong here though).
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Old 10-08-2007, 06:33 PM   #20 (permalink)
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thanks for the detailied response... i have to get to work researching my routers' capabilities, etc...
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