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Old 06-11-2018, 07:36 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Blackberry Classic OS

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Please confirm that the BB Classic operating system is Android.
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Old 06-12-2018, 07:53 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Blackberry Classic OS

As far as I can determine, BB os is not Android, but will support some Android applications in part or in whole
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Old 06-12-2018, 01:17 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Blackberry Classic OS

BBOS is Java based
BB10 is QNX based
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Old 06-12-2018, 03:17 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Blackberry Classic OS

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Old 06-12-2018, 03:54 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Blackberry Classic OS

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolyb View Post
Please confirm that the BB Classic operating system is Android.
The answer very much depends on your definition of Android

BlackBerry Classic OS is BlackBerry OS 10.3.x (i.e. not the older BBOS).

Yes it is Android, but there are very important differences about this BlackBerry distribution of Android:
  • BlackBerry OS 10.3.x is a heavily customised version of Android Jellybean:
    • Low-level customisations: BlackBerry OS 10.x versions come with bespoke drivers and bespoke kernel to better support the bespoke BlackBerry hardware.
    • High-level customisations: BlackBerry OS 10.x versions come with BlackBerry services for mapping etc. whereas most versions of Android come with Google services for mapping etc.

The idea was simple: Just like MacOS 10.x is a BSD optimised for Apple hardware, BlackBerry OS 10.x is Android optimised for BlackBerry hardware. There was one snag in this plan..

The economic problem is that there were never enough BB 10.x users so third-party app developers did not bother to keep the BB 10.x versions of their software up to date. For example, LinkedIn for BlackBerry OS 10.x has not been updated to work with the latest version of LinkedIn servers! That software can no longer login and should be uninstalled.

There is a fix. The middle parts of the BB 10.x stack is Android so you can (jump through hoops and) install the more common Google services. Once Google services are installed, you can install Google PlayStore. Once PlayStore is installed, you can install the up to date vanilla version of LinkedIn for Android and it will work (with caveats).

There remains a problem because vanilla-Android has very specific design standards such as widescreen display; and the BlackBerry Classic has a square screen. For example, my LinkedIn assumes it is running on 4:3 screen, so the app displays a bit squashed the experience is imperfect. Some apps from PlayStore do not make this assumption and look great.

There is another problem because the Google services need to be hacked to make them install on BB 10.x; which means some third-party apps need to be hacked to discover the hacked version of Google services. Depending on which apps you hope to use, you might need to be quite committed to hacking!

So yes it is Android, but not as you know it. I have shared a photo of my Classic running Google Maps from PlayStore. It works, but it is a bit squashed and a bit slow.

Photo of BlackBerry Classic running all of the above

This is exactly the same kind of pain you will encounter if you try installing MacOS on a standard PC; and the product is called a Hackintosh for good reason.

If you cannot beat them, join them! Newer BlackBerry phones come with a minimally differenced version of Android, and they come with Google services pre-installed. Those phones will be a lot more relaxing to update.
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Old 06-12-2018, 05:09 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Blackberry Classic OS

Quote:
Originally Posted by knottyrope View Post
BBOS is Java based
BB10 is QNX based
This is comparing apples and oranges.

Java is a general programming language.
QNX is a kernel.
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Old 06-14-2018, 02:29 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Blackberry Classic OS

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolyb View Post
As far as I can determine, BB os is not Android, but will support some Android applications in part or in whole
Wondering where the question came from.

But yes +1 on Knotty's response---BB10 OS is not Android, but BB10 can run some Android apps, more or less. And even the Android apps that it will run, it may not run them well. Depends.

And "running" may need to be defined more clearly, depending on the meaning of what is being asked and what the person asking means by "run".
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Old 06-14-2018, 02:31 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Blackberry Classic OS

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lactobacillus View Post
This is comparing apples and oranges.

Java is a general programming language.
QNX is a kernel.
It isn't a comparison. It's a factual answer.

Keyword is "based" and the post is accurate.
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Old 06-14-2018, 02:42 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Blackberry Classic OS

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lactobacillus View Post
The answer very much depends on your definition of Android

BlackBerry Classic OS is BlackBerry OS 10.3.x (i.e. not the older BBOS).

Yes it is Android, but there are very important differences about this BlackBerry distribution of Android:
  • BlackBerry OS 10.3.x is a heavily customised version of Android Jellybean:
    • Low-level customisations: BlackBerry OS 10.x versions come with bespoke drivers and bespoke kernel to better support the bespoke BlackBerry hardware.
    • High-level customisations: BlackBerry OS 10.x versions come with BlackBerry services for mapping etc. whereas most versions of Android come with Google services for mapping etc.

The idea was simple: Just like MacOS 10.x is a BSD optimised for Apple hardware, BlackBerry OS 10.x is Android optimised for BlackBerry hardware. There was one snag in this plan..

The economic problem is that there were never enough BB 10.x users so third-party app developers did not bother to keep the BB 10.x versions of their software up to date. For example, LinkedIn for BlackBerry OS 10.x has not been updated to work with the latest version of LinkedIn servers! That software can no longer login and should be uninstalled.

There is a fix. The middle parts of the BB 10.x stack is Android so you can (jump through hoops and) install the more common Google services. Once Google services are installed, you can install Google PlayStore. Once PlayStore is installed, you can install the up to date vanilla version of LinkedIn for Android and it will work (with caveats).

There remains a problem because vanilla-Android has very specific design standards such as widescreen display; and the BlackBerry Classic has a square screen. For example, my LinkedIn assumes it is running on 4:3 screen, so the app displays a bit squashed the experience is imperfect. Some apps from PlayStore do not make this assumption and look great.

There is another problem because the Google services need to be hacked to make them install on BB 10.x; which means some third-party apps need to be hacked to discover the hacked version of Google services. Depending on which apps you hope to use, you might need to be quite committed to hacking!

So yes it is Android, but not as you know it. I have shared a photo of my Classic running Google Maps from PlayStore. It works, but it is a bit squashed and a bit slow.

Photo of BlackBerry Classic running all of the above

This is exactly the same kind of pain you will encounter if you try installing MacOS on a standard PC; and the product is called a Hackintosh for good reason.

If you cannot beat them, join them! Newer BlackBerry phones come with a minimally differenced version of Android, and they come with Google services pre-installed. Those phones will be a lot more relaxing to update.
No, not in my mind anyway, the answer does not depend on the definition of Android. And no, BB10 is NOT Android. And no, BB10 is not a customized version of Android.

I didn't bother reading the rest of the post.

BlackBerry tried to broaden appeal for BB10 and increase the number of available apps by including software in the BB10 OS to make it possible to run Android apps (and bundling the Amazon app store). That doesn't make the BB10 OS a version of Android or a heavily customized Android. It makes BB10 a BlackBerry OS with included tools to run some Android apps.
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Old 06-14-2018, 04:00 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Blackberry Classic OS

Quote:
Originally Posted by aiharkness View Post
It isn't a comparison. It's a factual answer.

Keyword is "based" and the post is accurate.
Posted via BlackBerryForums.com Mobile
It is factual, but it is also very ambiguous.

BBOS is Java based. Most Android apps are Java based. Both these statements are equally defensible, but they create ambiguity, and does that help anyone?

BBOS consists of a closed-source Loader, which I guess is some kind of bootstrap but it might be the kernel, which in turn launches a JVM (Java Virtual Machine, but almost certainly not a complete implementation of all Java standards). The remainder of the BBOS stack runs on that JVM.

QNX is a kernel, which could also run a JVM directly (there is one called J9) or it could run a POSIX stack such as Android. Android could then run a JVM (I think some partial implementations exist). Plenty of Android apps are written in Java. Nothing said here is untrue.

I do not deny that it is factual to say that BBOS is Java based, but I would say its about as helpful as saying you can find Japan somewhere on Earth.

What interests me is that the Android kernel is Linux, which means it is open source. The KeyOne kernel is closed source - so is it really Android? Perhaps its mostly Android, or even 100% Android compatible? Maybe 99.9% compatible, most of the time? BlackBerry needs to provide some clarity.

Remember Apple was crucified at the turn of the century for printing on their packaging that MacOS X is UNIX-based. That came as a surprise to the company that owned the original UNIX operating system. What Apple actually meant is that MacOS is compliant with UNIX standards, which means something entirely different. If Apple can make a blunder like that, who is to say others cannot make equally misleading claims?

Java is owned by Oracle, so something can only really be Java-based if its relying on code owned by Oracle. If something is Java-compliant, or Java-compatible, then say that instead of saying its Java-based.
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Old 06-14-2018, 04:24 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Default Re: Blackberry Classic OS

Quote:
Originally Posted by aiharkness View Post
I didn't bother reading the rest of the post.
The more I read, the more I know. Just saying.. ;)
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Old 06-14-2018, 07:36 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Default Re: Blackberry Classic OS

BlackBerry 10.2.1 introduced the ability to install .APK files, which are the app files used in Android, directly to the phone. BB is NOT running android but the internal code allows it to emulate the requirements for it to use the apps.
Moving to the current mess, Blackberry did not (will not)update the requrements and the older BB phones running BBOS10 will not run newer apps.

As aiharkness said it is not running Android OS
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Old 06-15-2018, 05:24 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Default Re: Blackberry Classic OS

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsac View Post
BlackBerry 10.2.1 introduced the ability to install .APK files, which are the app files used in Android, directly to the phone.
APKs are not app files. An APK file is a renamed ZIP file, which might be signed for security (and yes, having layers of security does make life harder for end users). APKs contain DEX files and other resources.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsac View Post
BB is NOT running android but the internal code allows it to emulate the requirements for it to use the apps.
By Apps you probably mean Dalvik Executables (DEX), which on older Android phones would execute within a Dalvik Virtual Machine (DVM). This is still supported in Android 8.1 Oreo but it looks like DVM is now at end of life. Current Android phones can alternatively convert DEX to native OAT, which run on the Android Runtime without DVM.

Its clear that Android phones do not all use the same approach. What is BB10s approach?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsac View Post
Blackberry did not (will not)update the requrements and the older BB phones running BBOS10 will not run newer apps.
I do not share your view because I have several HTC phones (100% Android) and they also do not run the newest Android apps. I find it perplexing that you think BlackBerry needs to provide better Android support than HTC does in order to qualify as being Android.

Even a Google Pixel XL does not provide users with Android compatibility all of the time:
https://productforums.google.com/for...o/Mdy1MK6WAAAJ

No manufacturer successfully revises (or at least re-releases) the hardware drivers for each of their handsets for each version of Android. It is down to users to complain or release fixes themselves. When that does not happen, the hardware will be incompatible with apps compiled for that version of Android.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tscac
As aiharkness said it is not running Android OS
As I pointed out there are layers to Android (such as Kernel, APIs, VMs, Design Standards, etc.) and there is no definition of which layers - or how many layers - need to be present in order for an OS to be officially Android.

The Android kernel is open source Linux. In contrast, the kernel used on the BlackBerry KeyOne is closed source. This means the KeyOne cannot legally be running the Android kernel (or any Linux kernel), yet it is still marketed as Android!
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Last edited by Lactobacillus : 06-15-2018 at 07:21 AM.
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Old 06-15-2018, 07:43 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Default Re: Blackberry Classic OS

I dotn stay up all night worring about Android but I do know that since Google blocked updating on my Z10 for some of the app updates I had that were running " as Android "
apps reguardless of what and where it wont work and Google wont allow login to playstore.
Do you know how to say "big brother is watching"
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Old 06-15-2018, 08:59 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Default Re: Blackberry Classic OS

Ah well, Google auto-updates will break your system. That is just how they do things.

I had Google Maps and Google Navigator (both working fine). Google merged the two products into one. Their new Google Maps was compiled for a newer OS than I had installed. The auto-update kicked in: Deleted Navigator, Failed to update Maps, and left me stranded with no Sat Nav. Lesson learned: always disable Google's updates!

Phones are extensions of ourselves; and allowing someone else to auto-change them is like mental torture.

I cannot remember when that was, but I do remember that the phone (until Google chopped bits off) was doing everything that my current phone does today. It might have been a BB8310.
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Old 06-15-2018, 02:20 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Default Re: Blackberry Classic OS

That works when you have apps that will continue to work if you dont get the update.And Ford now uses Google to access the vehicle ( sync3) and also wont work with older Android levels.
Soon Googler will control more than people realize.
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Old 06-19-2018, 08:03 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Default Re: Blackberry Classic OS

Blackberry Classic run on BlackBerry 10 OS.
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