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-   -   Can this group be objective? (http://www.blackberryforums.com/showthread.php?t=154135)

conker 10-09-2008 11:18 PM

Can this group be objective?
 
Orange UK Halts BlackBerry Bold Sales for Quality Issues

Is it really that bad? I am hoping people in this group can be objective to a fellow BB fan who has been waiting patiently for the Bold to be released by AT&T....

With all the delays and the above press release, I am beginning to wonder? Is this device going to crash on my 2 or 3 times a day? Am I going to be dropping calls left and right? What other annoying issues are there that this group may not be sharing, but actually exist to the point where a major carrier would halt sales? Seriously, for Orange to do that means something is seriously wrong. It's no wonder AT&T has not released it! There must be series issues they are trying to iron out before release. Series issues that people in this group must be experiencing?

I want my Bold! Or do I?

The Tank 10-09-2008 11:25 PM

Wirelessly posted

I work in a high tech business and can say you should never be the first to get new technology. Let someone else work the issues out first.

TroyDBrown 10-09-2008 11:28 PM

I agree with the above post and also feel you will be fine with the AT&T Bold. There has been plenty of discussion on the issues here.

kpw4v 10-11-2008 09:55 AM

Wirelessly posted


I have got a bold on Orange UK. Got the device on first day of launch. After a lot of issues with Orange UK and finally upgrading to .162 I have no problems at all. Delighted with the device.



Kevin

JvKintheUSA 10-11-2008 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by conker (Post 1131401)
Orange UK Halts BlackBerry Bold Sales for Quality Issues

Is it really that bad? I am hoping people in this group can be objective to a fellow BB fan who has been waiting patiently for the Bold to be released by AT&T....

With all the delays and the above press release, I am beginning to wonder? Is this device going to crash on my 2 or 3 times a day? Am I going to be dropping calls left and right? What other annoying issues are there that this group may not be sharing, but actually exist to the point where a major carrier would halt sales? Seriously, for Orange to do that means something is seriously wrong. It's no wonder AT&T has not released it! There must be series issues they are trying to iron out before release. Series issues that people in this group must be experiencing?

I want my Bold! Or do I?

There have been a lot of OS upgrades these weeks, each one better then the one before. I started on .125, and now on .162. The hardware is not going to change IMO, but you will see continuous upgrades on the sw side. If you are going to have issues it will be due to sw and incompatible third party apps.

ifonline 10-11-2008 11:14 AM

I am thinking that the root of the problem with most devices in existence is a bad OS. It appears, from my experience and the experience of others, that upgrading to the latest OS drastically improves the device. It might not be a perfect fix, but so far I have had no issues. EDGE works, 3G works, WiFi works. No crashes, reboots, freezes, etc.

I agree with Troy that when AT&T releases the Bold (if you don't want to get a Rogers Bold now), the device will work just fine.

There will always be problems, I suppose, be it with service outage causing the device to flake, or with third-party software with sloppy code. But I think the device itself seems to be just fine. I can somewhat understand why Orange decided to pull the device, but at the same time, I don't understand why they don't just release an approved OS upgrade and suggest that their customers upgrade the device (or upgrade it in-store if need be). Orange's reaction seems to be a bit knee-jerk.

estabulla 10-11-2008 11:48 AM

I am one of the early Bold users (if I can say that) and can tell you that the latest OS is eons better than the stock OS that came with the unit when I got it. I am not sure if it is carrier grade or not but it suits my purpose just fine. I love my Bold and can tell you it's been the best BB I have owned ever. I even contemplated going with the iPhone at one point but given the severe restrictions with Activesync, I cannot see how I'd ever get myself to going with it (at least for now).

What it finally comes down to is price. If you are willing to pay the full premium to acquire it now or wait till AT&T releases it and buy it for a lower price.

My 2 cents.

SamBerry 10-11-2008 12:16 PM

Bold is King
 
I have had my Bold since September 20. It is my FIFTH BlackBerry.

And I LOVE it. It has new features galore that are all useful.

Two cautions: Battery Life is one day max (even with OS. 162) and Sena has not made a flip top case for it. I am waiting to get this Noreve - Leather case BlackBerry 9000 Bold Tradition to see if it will do.

Get the Bold. It's awesome.

test54 10-11-2008 01:51 PM

its fine for the users that know enough to upgrade the OS, but the vast majority do not so that I guess is why Orange is pulling it until they get units without all the bugs that the old OS has.

dbltap 10-11-2008 02:21 PM

test54 hit it right on the money. I too have been in IT for 20+ years. I am totally comfortable re-loading firmware. I've done beta testing for dozens of companies. I've loaded several beta versions of BlackBerry OS on 4 different platforms. The performance of the current released versions are miles from the Rogers initial release. But still... there are a few issues that need to be ironed out.

The question is... is it ready for the 10s of thousands of users who would be totally lost upgrading an OS? Not hardly. I am 100% behind AT&T not releasing the Bold. I can understand Orange pulling it. It's not ready for the masses. But for those of us who can update without major trauma, it's really pretty good. I would wager that less than 1% of the total BlackBerry community knows this forum is here. Those of us that do, tend to be the ones that like being on the edge and don't mind tweaking a few things here and there. The majority of the consumer market would not. Corporate IT folks with mass deployment would not.

If anything... we tend to be the final beta in this group. Is it right? Nope. This needed a LOT more work before release. But I'm not complaining that I need to keep tweaking to get the performance I expect. But the general public would not.

Let's get it right RIM. Most of us here support you. We'll give you the feed back on what needs work.

conker 10-11-2008 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dbltap (Post 1133137)
test54 hit it right on the money. I too have been in IT for 20+ years. I am totally comfortable re-loading firmware. I've done beta testing for dozens of companies. I've loaded several beta versions of BlackBerry OS on 4 different platforms. The performance of the current released versions are miles from the Rogers initial release. But still... there are a few issues that need to be ironed out.

The question is... is it ready for the 10s of thousands of users who would be totally lost upgrading an OS? Not hardly. I am 100% behind AT&T not releasing the Bold. I can understand Orange pulling it. It's not ready for the masses. But for those of us who can update without major trauma, it's really pretty good. I would wager that less than 1% of the total BlackBerry community knows this forum is here. Those of us that do, tend to be the ones that like being on the edge and don't mind tweaking a few things here and there. The majority of the consumer market would not. Corporate IT folks with mass deployment would not.

If anything... we tend to be the final beta in this group. Is it right? Nope. This needed a LOT more work before release. But I'm not complaining that I need to keep tweaking to get the performance I expect. But the general public would not.

Let's get it right RIM. Most of us here support you. We'll give you the feed back on what needs work.

Thanks for the reply. I do know this forum is here, and I am not afraid of upgrading the OS'. Like all of you, I enjoy it! I just wanted to make sure I wasn't getting a device that was going to crash on me 5 times a day, and had no hope for improvements. I was angry at first for the delay, but am thankful now.

Sith_Apprentice 10-11-2008 03:05 PM

.167 is very stable and while battery life is still 1 day with moderate+ use thats more due to 3G network than anything. Turn it to 3G only and you will have better battery life.

ifonline 10-11-2008 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sith_Apprentice (Post 1133176)
.167 is very stable and while battery life is still 1 day with moderate+ use thats more due to 3G network than anything. Turn it to 3G only and you will have better battery life.

Turn it to 3G? Or did you mean EDGE only?

Mark PPG 10-11-2008 08:01 PM

Wirelessly posted (9000)

Also keep in mind for the 10's of thousands of users that DM will eventually notify them of a newer os and make them upgrade, much the same way as windows does. Assuming they install DM...

So Rogers people (like me) would now have access to 162 after what? A month? 5 weeks?

I'm VERY happy with my Bold. Wouldn't go back to Curve now. Might yearn for a Storm, but that in the short term seems unlikely :-)

Get the damn phone :-)

TTune 10-12-2008 12:50 AM

The only problem I've had with my own Bold was in countries where I've taken it and THEIR 3G service was terrible. (New Zealand, for example, some places in Australia). At that time, the phone was really annoyed with me.

Perhaps Orange is saying "Our 3G service is spotty, just like AT&T, so we'll hold things off a bit until RIM can come up with something to mask all these problems".

Like many in here, I'm extremely comfortable with firmware/OS uploads and re-flashes and I'm also very comfortable on the bleeding edge - but I acknowledge that many arent. I don't know how many real CrackBerries there are out there vs new users who haven't had their first "fix". It would be good to give the newest users a clean happy experience no matter whose fault the problem lies with (Carrier or otherwise).

I don't mind at all being the first to find a bug, get it reported and killed, and on to the next one. :)

kpw4v 10-12-2008 03:34 AM

Wirelessly posted

Quote:

Originally Posted by TTune
The only problem I've had with my own Bold was in countries where I've taken it and THEIR 3G service was terrible. (New Zealand, for example, some places in Australia). At that time, the phone was really annoyed with me.

Perhaps Orange is saying "Our 3G service is spotty, just like AT&T, so we'll hold things off a bit until RIM can come up with something to mask all these problems".

Like many in here, I'm extremely comfortable with firmware/OS uploads and re-flashes and I'm also very comfortable on the bleeding edge - but I acknowledge that many arent. I don't know how many real CrackBerries there are out there vs new users who haven't had their first "fix". It would be good to give the newest users a clean happy experience no matter whose fault the problem lies with (Carrier or otherwise).

I don't mind at all being the first to find a bug, get it reported and killed, and on to the next one. :)

All carriers have patchy 3g coverage. I was on t mobile and could not a 3g signal in the Lake District but can with Orange. However, cankt get Orange 3g in my living room. The issue does seem to be 2 3 g switching which is improved on .162 but not perfect. The question for Orange is what are they going to about us early adopters?

dbltap 10-12-2008 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kpw4v (Post 1133662)
Wirelessly posted
All carriers have patchy 3g coverage. ... The issue does seem to be 2 3 g switching which is improved on .162 but not perfect.

This is my experience as well. The big bug I found last week was with .162 using manually selected networks. When ever the signal would fade to the point of loosing the network... and the Bold tried to find another... The thing would freeze up and fail. Once I had better signal, it switched fairly easily with no lock up. I've seen problems in a number of countries so far with 3G. If I move back to EDGE, the system works great.

Quote:

The question for Orange is what are they going to about us early adopters?
And what should they do? This really appears to be more of a RIM learning curve issue with GSM 3G code than a carrier issue. I remember we went through dozens of versions of radio code on the HTC TyTn a year or so ago before they finally got a version that worked well all over the world. Samsung had terrible radio code in the initial BlackJack. Why would RIM be able to get it right the first time all over the world? They told AT&T up front they had no GSM 3G experience.

I expect we will see a number of updates to the 3G code before RIM gets a version that works well all over the world with all the different carriers. As I said, it's WORLDS better today with .162 & from what I hear with .167. I think they ARE getting closer. But I don't see this as a carrier issue nearly as much as I do a RIM development issue.

I'm not bad mouthing RIM from this. This many versions of 3G around the world is daunting. I do like the improvements I have seen and feel good about them getting these problems ironed out. But the support nightmares that would be involved with a mass rollout of where the code was even a month ago would be daunting. Look at all the furiour from the Apple 3G launch.

AT&T has been burned by Samsung and now Apple with 3G issues. I can't blame them for wanting RIM to get a lot better performance before releasing it in mass. I would only imagine Orange is seeing similar support issues and thus the step to hold off for a few weeks until new code is available.

Just my dos centavos on the topic.

j05h86 10-12-2008 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Tank (Post 1131405)
Wirelessly posted

I work in a high tech business and can say you should never be the first to get new technology. Let someone else work the issues out first.

Ah this is why i didn't get a 360 till a year after it came out, the first batch had the overheating problems. lol. (y)

gfunk11 10-12-2008 01:19 PM

Wirelessly posted

Carriers like Orange are just freakin' out with the complaints frm the masses & return/exchanges. These aren't due to the hw being faulty, but rather the sw being too unstable. My qualms have always layed with the carriers. They themselves are most of the time are not well versed with the devices that they sell & support. All they could have done was keep tabs on NEW OS dev't from RIM, use this forums and others as user feedback, and just apply this. Have ppl upgrade to the newest OS, or just drop-in to their stores and do it for the owners. All it takes is abit more effort put-out by carriers to help out the masses. Instead of taking the easiest way out, STOP SELLING. All I can say, SELL OUT!!!

Their call centres and support technicians need better product training and hands-on t/shooting. Else, no matter what RIM launches, there'll be another round of this thing cropping-up again. Oh well, we are at the carriers mercy anyways. Hehehe...

Just my 2 cents for the day...

kpw4v 10-12-2008 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gfunk11 (Post 1133905)
Wirelessly posted

Carriers like Orange are just freakin' out with the complaints frm the masses & return/exchanges. These aren't due to the hw being faulty, but rather the sw being too unstable. My qualms have always layed with the carriers. They themselves are most of the time are not well versed with the devices that they sell & support. All they could have done was keep tabs on NEW OS dev't from RIM, use this forums and others as user feedback, and just apply this. Have ppl upgrade to the newest OS, or just drop-in to their stores and do it for the owners. All it takes is abit more effort put-out by carriers to help out the masses. Instead of taking the easiest way out, STOP SELLING. All I can say, SELL OUT!!!

Their call centres and support technicians need better product training and hands-on t/shooting. Else, no matter what RIM launches, there'll be another round of this thing cropping-up again. Oh well, we are at the carriers mercy anyways. Hehehe...

Just my 2 cents for the day...

Not wanting to defend Orange (they messed me about big style) but their TS folks are on a hiding to nothing. They have shed loads of phones to support and thousands of "noobs" with the latest phone wanting to know how to get farcebook to work. All BB's and the Bold in particular are very complex devices and do a lot more than a normal phone. Add this they are different (service books?) from most PDA/phones out there.

However, to it would seem to me that the carriers like Orange are at fault. They rush to get the latest hot product to market (they were first with the Bold in the UK) without full and proper testing. Just don't blame the TS folks too much.

Kevin


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